Grzyb wrote on 2025-03-07, 12:07:

Sometimes. DOS-based network operating systems did exist, and could use such workarounds. […]
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Sabina_16bit. wrote on 2025-03-07, 10:39:

Was these workarounds(those available in that era) the way,early servers worked?

Sometimes.
DOS-based network operating systems did exist, and could use such workarounds.

The more advanced systems, however, used their own filesystems.

See eg. Novell NetWare - the server software was installed on a normal DOS partition, with all its limitations.
But there was also separate NWFS partition for the files being served, free of any DOS FAT limits.

Unix systems also use their own filesystems.

I guess,the early ARPAnet servers could be in this era

ARPANET was established in 1969, long before the IBM PC and DOS.

Thanx for the explanation about early servers.
But ARPANet still existed in 1987,as Internet was based in early 1990s & ARPANet was used as its base.
Czechia was connected to Internet in 1994.

wierd_w wrote on 2025-03-07, 13:54:

Ahhhh... novell.... […]
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Ahhhh... novell....

I'm actually (well, was actually) certified to administer that shit!

Yes, the server starts from DOS but completely takes over, sorta like early linux used lilo and loadlin to start.

NWFS in later versions was certainly not FAT, and had quite a few oddball features, like 'block suballocation'. If a cluster was not fully used, a suballocation inode would be added to the tree, so that a small file could use the remainder of the cluster.

https://support.novell.com/docs/Tids/Solutions/10054133.html

Weird stuff like that.

Interesting.
I guess,it was dangerous & crossed files very often?

mbbrutman wrote on 2025-03-11, 00:10:

Did it run MS-DOS 2.11 or PC DOS 2.1? Most Jrs would have been running PC-DOS 2.1, then possibly later versions of PC DOS. Those handled the built-in ROM BASIC and the cartridge correctly. The screen is just CGA with a different pinout.

I'm going to have a PCjr at an event in two weeks that is going to be basically period correct - 512K of RAM, single disk drive, and a parallel port. But it's going to have an Ethernet adapter on the parallel port and I'm going to boot it to PC-DOS 5.02, then use NetDrive do connect 48GB of storage to it over the network. (24 drive letters, 2GB each.) Running chkdsk across all of those is going to take an hour or two. ;-0

Congrats to a valuable pc to be added to Your collection.
Do not forget to share results of Your proposed upgrade of it.
Good luck.

Sabina_16bit. wrote on 2025-03-11, 10:07:

Thanx for the explanation about early servers.
But ARPANet still existed in 1987,as Internet was based in early 1990s & ARPANet was used as its base.
Czechia was connected to Internet in 1994.

If you mean *late* ARPANET (late 80s), and pre-commercialization Internet (until 1995), then the dominant server system was definitely Unix.

DOS wasn't a viable platform for servers.
And with the advent of 32-bit CPUs, DOS became inadequate even as a workstation OS.
Unfortunately, the system designed as DOS replacement - OS/2 - wasn't very successful, so we had to struggle with DOS-based stuff even past 2000...

Thanx,yes,I was asking about the same era,when DOS 3.0 to 3.30 was new,as this topic is about it,so yes,U make it clear,servers was almost all Unix @ the time,but as of we r speaking about DOS 3.0 to 3.30 limitations,I would interested,did ever some company or school,or library,or so @ that time try to use it for something wider than a local PC by the in era existent workarounds,which U also replied,thus the general answer may be "Yes,but extremely rarely".
All thanx,we explored this.
The rest,I wish to ask,did U mean,all (late 1980s) ARPANet servers was Unix-based,or all servers @ all including LAN servers of some companies,libraries,research labs,etc.?
Unix everywhere,or for some for example cheaper ethernets of some underfinanced places there was a place for DOS solutions?
So Nowell was also rare & Unix absolutely dominant(like today due to Linux)?

It's hard to shortly describe the DOS 3.x era, as it was actually very long.
DOS 3.0 came in 1984, 3.30 in 1987 - but due to problems with 4.x, the 3.30 was commonly used until 1991+, when it finally got replaced by 5.0.
Seven years - or even slightly more - when a lot has happened!
Here, I'm going to focus on the final years of that period...

Commercialization of the Internet began in 1995.
Before, the Internet, and company LANs, were completely different worlds.

The Internet was only available at universities and other scientific institutions.
Server side was strongly dominated by Unix - as that's where TCP/IP was usually already built-in.
Some servers were x86, but it was also the golden era of RISC architecture.

At companies, the key were off-the-shelf office applications - and vast majority of thereof was for the x86 PC platform.
The #1 choice for networking x86 PCs was Novel Netware - in its mature form a complete 32-bit OS, only using DOS for the loader.
Microsoft and IBM offered LAN Manager and LAN Server - both based on OS/2.
Unix systems were also common, but not dominant.

DOS-based network operating systems were limited to cheap solutions for small LANs - often peer-to-peer, rather than dedicated-server.
The most common seemed to be Artisoft LANtastic.
Novell also had peer-to-peer products: NetWare Lite and Personal NetWare.

Thanx 4 detailed elaboration.
& yes,for the 1st year of Internet in Czechia(1994) it only led to universities,1st to Praha,then to Brno,& mortal persons was unaware of it,it got public in 1995,most people here do not know,it was here a year earlier.
My father had 1st dial-up internet connection in 1999,I did not felt the need until 2008,so my PCs was all offline or Laplinked,later also cross-LANned between each other,I did not had so need for it,which would surpass my fear from viruses...
To return to topic,since I started with PCs,I was using MS-DOS 6.2x & various versions of Windows,but never abandoned DOS & paradoxically I got MS-DOS 3.30 in 2019 & installed it 1st,when I got enough parts to build a 286 PC on my then oldest functional MoBo,I also lacked small enough HDDs then,thus I installed it on 32MB CF card from my dead camera,I plan to replace it by an era-correct HDD,as I now have them & I miss the sound of the HDD heads,when I am using this PC,but still I will let it DOS 3.30 machine,probably I will upgrade a 386 from 80MB to 504MB HDD & put that 80MB to the 286,OSs will be the same,DOS 5.0 on 386 & DOS 3.30 on 286 & after 6 years of using DOS 3.30 I must say about it,it is absolutely reliable & almost bug-less(the only bug is wrong displaying of Secret Agent making it unplayable on DOS 3.30).
BTW what U think,is Wolfenstein really using whole 1MB of RAM on 286 on DOS 3.30,or it just displays it @ start,see the other 384KB,but cannot really use,what do U think?
It definitely sees the whole memory,it displays it as XMS.

I don't know how Wolfenstein 3D uses XMS and EMS.

DOS 3.x lacks HIMEM.SYS, so no XMS by default.

But it's perfectly possible to add HIMEM.SYS to DOS 3.x.
DOS 3.10 is enough to run Windows 3.0 and 3.1, DOS 3.30 - even for Windows for Workgroups.
All those Windowses are shipped with HIMEM.SYS, to be used when DOS doesn't provide it.

I already wrote,I am always successful with using DOS 6.22's Himem.sys ,& also EMM386.exe (of course on 386+ CPU) & MSCDEX.exe on DOS 3.30,worx perfectly,no bugs.
Never tested Win16's Himem.sys ,as DOS 6.22's always satisfied me & I mostly gets MSCDEX.exe from it within 1 single transfer.

What's also interesting, DCP had been built around DOS 3.2 and 3.3.
So it's possible to run Windows 3 on it, even.

The A7150 version is interesting (runs DCP1700), because that PC was only partial compatible.
Robotron also wrote special (custom) fixed-disk drivers for DCP.
Maybe they're doing interesting things, too, not sure.

I'm familiar with the normal, IBM PC compatible version of DCP.
If the custom drivers are stripped out, it will happily run on my western Commodore PC10 - which looks similar to the eastern Robotron ES1834.
Except that the 1834 is technological a little better, maybe. That's so weird! 😅

Typos fixed.