chrismeyer6 wrote on 2025-03-14, 00:31:

Oh man that hurts to look at. I'm sorry that happened to you. Was it not packaged properly?

There didn't appear to be any damage to the packaging when the delivery turned up, but it's clear it has been dropped on one corner.

I don't think the box was sturdy enough. Plenty of internal packaging, but quite a thin box for such a heavy laptop.

The second Kapok laptop arrived today while I was at work, this time without being smashed into a million pieces... this is the 8500p - supposed to be MMC-2 processor module, 15" 1024x768 screen, 8MB ATI Rage LT Pro, ESS Audiodrive 1879 + wavetable chip.

It's a bit dinged up, and missing the HDD caddy (but on that front I already checked; the caddy from the smashed 8500c *does* fit), but otherwise as I expected it.

Apart from:

It's another ESS 1878S Maestro-2E model! 👎 ... not the expected ESS 1879 Audiodrive and discrete wavetable module.

Piece of junk! My luck is just not very good at the moment.

megatron-uk wrote on 2025-03-13, 21:21:

First of the Kapok machines arrived today and I was able to unbox it this evening.

Oh, that is a shame. These do have rather brittle plastics, so making sure they're packed well is a concern for sure.

Kahenraz wrote on 2025-03-14, 02:11:

I just wanted to mention that the NeoMagic MagicGraph 128XD has both Windows 3.1 and Windows 98 drivers. Although it does use unfiltered upscaling, which can look pretty terrible. I'm not certain about actual DOS games support that makes it "bad".

In particular, it struggles when certain 2D platformers scroll. You can see it in the Keen games and to a lesser extent in Jazz Jackrabbit.

keenmaster486 wrote on 2025-03-14, 15:12:

Kahenraz wrote on 2025-03-14, 02:11:

I just wanted to mention that the NeoMagic MagicGraph 128XD has both Windows 3.1 and Windows 98 drivers. Although it does use unfiltered upscaling, which can look pretty terrible. I'm not certain about actual DOS games support that makes it "bad".

In particular, it struggles when certain 2D platformers scroll. You can see it in the Keen games and to a lesser extent in Jazz Jackrabbit.

I noticed problems with my Thinkpad 240 (NeoMagic 128XD) in:

Keen 1 - 6 (jerky scrolling)
Dangerous Dave 1 - 2 (jerky scrolling)
Gods (status / score panel at bottom of screen is jerky when scrolling, but the main playfield/sprites are not)
Monster Bash 1 - 2 (like Gods; main playfield is smooth, but status bar is jerky)
Stormlord (jerky scrolling)
Zool (jerky scrolling)
Faery Tale Adventure (playfield scrolling is jerky, though sprites on the playfield move smoothly)
Albion (text windows in the game are offset to the right and partly off-screen)

Outside of those titles it performs very well.

One of the positives of the NeoMagic chip is that on most Thinkpads that use it, you have a hotkey combo to switch scaling on/off at will. Not all other early laptop chips have that option.

IMHO, I'd rate laptop VGA chips in this order:

Top tier
Nvidia (e.g. Geforce Go - but you can only find these on the *very* tail end of DOS-compatible laptops have that option)
ATI (from Rage LT and above - the start of proper interpolated full-screen scaling of all modes)

Middle tier
C&T 6555x (BIOS controlled scaling, good compatibility, and VEXP utility to do some fine tweaking of the scaling modes)
Neomagic (simply because of the ability to toggle scaling on/off while running; on most models)

Bottom tier
S3 (no / basic scaling options until very, very late chips were released)**
Trident ? Seems to be universally rated poor on laptops

** The datasheet for the S3 Virge (and onwards) does mention the ability to do bilinear filtered resolution scaling, but I have yet to see any evidence that anyone took advantage of this. It just looks like all other non-filtered scaling that all the other early VGA chips did. It does seem to have the potential to be better.

megatron-uk wrote on 2025-03-14, 15:24:

Bottom tier

I would add Cirrus Logic & Silicon Motion to the Bottom tier.

megatron-uk wrote on 2025-03-14, 13:42:

Piece of junk! My luck is just not very good at the moment.

Unfortunately, many Taiwanese laptops are garbage, didn't you know?

MAZter wrote on 2025-03-14, 16:48:

I would add Cirrus Logic & Silicon Motion to the Bottom tier. […]
Show full quote

megatron-uk wrote on 2025-03-14, 15:24:

Bottom tier

I would add Cirrus Logic & Silicon Motion to the Bottom tier.

megatron-uk wrote on 2025-03-14, 13:42:

Piece of junk! My luck is just not very good at the moment.

Unfortunately, many Taiwanese laptops are garbage, didn't you know?

It's more that it has the Maestro-2 audio (and not the Audiodrive), than the build quality.

In relation to the smashed 8500c, I suspect just about anything would have been broken if dropped on the corner like this has.

My progress so far...

The pieces are so fine I've had to resort to super glue. Once it is all back together and set, then I'll probably reinforce it with epoxy resin on the back.

It's not the laptop I wanted, but no sense throwing it out if it can be fixed... however ugly it may eventually look...

MAZter wrote on 2025-03-14, 16:48:

megatron-uk wrote on 2025-03-14, 15:24:

Bottom tier

I would add Cirrus Logic & Silicon Motion to the Bottom tier.

I do have a ThinkPad 240X, in addition to a 240 (bought just for the donor screen - so currently screen-less!), and it has the Silicon Motion LynxEM... but I've never tried it (as in all aspects for DOS gaming the 240X is inferior to the earlier 240).

Maybe if I come across a spare screen for the 240X I'll test it some time.

megatron-uk wrote on 2025-03-14, 15:24:

S3 (no / basic scaling options until very, very late chips were released)**
** The datasheet for the S3 Virge (and onwards) does mention the ability to do bilinear filtered resolution scaling, but I have yet to see any evidence that anyone took advantage of this. It just looks like all other non-filtered scaling that all the other early VGA chips did. It does seem to have the potential to be better.

The Virge/MX+ in my Kapok 8500M does near proper scaling - it must not be perfect because text can still look off when you're looking closely, but it has zero scolling issues and the aspect ratio looks correct. Worth noting that this will differ laptop to laptop, I've heard Toshibas with the MX just stick you with black borders.

NeoMagic, Cirrus, and C&T graphics all have scolling issues in games like Keen. NeoMagic is noticeably worse than the other two though. I do have one C&T 65555 laptop that does scaling similar to what my Kapok does, and also plays games like Keen without glitches.

The ability to switch between scaled/nonscaled on NeoMagic laptops is entirely up to the BIOS. I've run across plenty that can't do it. The same goes for C&T and Cirrus laptops - some laptops can, some can't.

MAZter wrote on 2025-03-14, 16:48:

Unfortunately, many Taiwanese laptops are garbage, didn't you know?

I'd argue they're often built no worse than many name brand laptops were. There are plenty of Dell, HP, Compaq, and yes, even IBM laptops that suffer rampant hinge failure, and ABS plastic from this time is pretty much universally garbage.

The Frankenstein Armada 1750 is now assembled:

- FDD, CDROM and keyboard from first machine
- Case, screen, PSU and plastics from second machine
- System board, CPU (a PII-366, but reported in the BIOS as a PII-400?), RAM and battery from third machine

That leaves me with two spare FDD modules, one spare CDROM (one is broken), and one spare battery (again, unknown life - other than it powers on with it)... and two 1750 systems that are non-functional (one with system board 102 failure, one which won't power on).

Did a little more cleaning of the plastics from the second machine as I was putting it all back together and I'm really pleased with the condition:

Everything is working perfectly; sound is clear, the 128GB mSATA drive (with ontrack overlay) boots without issue and ran through all of the demos in Phils benchmark pack without fault.
Screen is that lovely ATI scaling with none of the blocky/jaggy artifacts:

Next will be to set up the PCMCIA/Cardbus drivers (it's a TI chipset, I believe) so that I can get the Roland SCP-55 (laptop input is mono/mic; just about the only downside of the Armada) and a network card working.

On the Kapok laptop situation I've got the corner re-assembled, so it's ready to be reinforced with 2-part epoxy (and maybe some glass fibre tape). Still no luck on sourcing one of the Ilan Elec F1900 power supplies though - they seem to be like gold dust.

Whilst I'm a big fan of the Sony Vaio PCG-Z505/Z600 machines (and they really all lovely slim little things), having worked on both models quite a bit now (and owning several variations of each), I think I'm coming round to the fact that the Armada is probably the better all-rounder.

Granted it's a bit of a brick compared to some others, but the Compaq is:

- Cheaper
- Far easier to find (and find parts for)
- Much more modular and serviceable
- Plastics seem more robust (the alloy case of the Vaio is very trick, but the plastic parts seem much more fragile)

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-12-31, 05:38:

I find myself pondering a very far off perfect Epson ActionNote 4slc/33, which is on the radar locally. Mono LCD, VGA only, no S, and of course the CPU doesn't exactly punch in the real 486 weight class. It is available and affordable though, and seems only to need a new HDD. I am thinking of it as "replacing" my z-lite 320 and z-star 433 which have numerous electronic problems, but worse, have plastics that have rotted to chocolate or cheeselike consistency, so while the electronics might be repaired, they might end up mounted to a literal breadboard for mechanical stability, and only used desktop style with kb/mon. So while I have a fondness for the plodding greyscales of those, nostalgia based since I owned the 320 from 1995, they are trending rapidly away from being able to be used in any manner similar to a laptop. Thus I find an ActionNote, which probably splits the performance difference between them, since the zstar has a slc2, somewhat attractive for it's apparent ability to maintain it's shape at least. Around the retro world, a couple of owners seem to be charmed by them, liking the crispness of the LCD, even if it has all the normal drawbacks, liking the keyboard, liking the size. Also quite appealing is the 2 serial ports. No PCMCIA to be had though. It has also been shown that an 8xAA battery holder fits in the battery compartment and can be populated with regular NiMh AAs.

Anyway, considering going for it, for ~'88 to '92 DOSing around, in whatever I can bear without color and with blur, and no sound apart from maybe speaker or if I make it a covox. Though actually, I find I really only play fast action games much on desktop anyway, need to sit up and focus, rather than slouch and chill.

I actually managed to surface from my recent torrent of BS long enough to grab this machine yesterday, was still for sale. Though some other flavorful morsels the seller had had sold. Not much more to tell about it so far, screen looks crisp, unit seems "low mileage" as regards key wear etc. Have to get it open and swap out the drive or see what's going on with it.

I got another Zenith Data Systems Z-Note 325Lc that is in much better condition than the other one I had. The corrosion was just starting and I was able to neutralize it and rig the battery that I made for the other laptop for this one externally. I recapped the logic boards, the display, and inverter board with new radial capacitors and all of the SMD electroleaktic caps were replaced with SMD tantalums from either Digi-Key or Console5 (the display SMD tantalum kit from Console5, which is nice that they have that).

It has the CL-GD6410, which I cannot find a utility to make it not strethed when playing DOS games and the BIOS option has two settings: stretched or centered, but no sound card internally, which is a bummer, but the DigiSpeeh Porta*Sound connected to it is sufficient.

The floppy drive works on it and even the CF2IDE I used in the other ZDS works great with it as well. It also has a 387SL FPU, which is nice, but for the SETLANID for the AAUI Ethernet/Token Ring unit, I still cannot find that program anywhwere and the old 120MB Conner that was in it died, which is unfortunate and that didn't have the program on there either.

megatron-uk wrote on 2025-03-14, 17:04:

It's more that it has the Maestro-2 audio (and not the Audiodrive), than the build quality. […]
Show full quote

MAZter wrote on 2025-03-14, 16:48:

I would add Cirrus Logic & Silicon Motion to the Bottom tier. […]
Show full quote

megatron-uk wrote on 2025-03-14, 15:24:

Bottom tier

I would add Cirrus Logic & Silicon Motion to the Bottom tier.

megatron-uk wrote on 2025-03-14, 13:42:

Piece of junk! My luck is just not very good at the moment.

Unfortunately, many Taiwanese laptops are garbage, didn't you know?

It's more that it has the Maestro-2 audio (and not the Audiodrive), than the build quality.

In relation to the smashed 8500c, I suspect just about anything would have been broken if dropped on the corner like this has.

My progress so far...

The attachment IMG20250314170007.jpg is no longer available

The pieces are so fine I've had to resort to super glue. Once it is all back together and set, then I'll probably reinforce it with epoxy resin on the back.

It's not the laptop I wanted, but no sense throwing it out if it can be fixed... however ugly it may eventually look...

Can't be worse than my PMD-5500:

Soldering iron and cut off legs from capacitors to fix the plastic. It doesn't look ideal, but it's holding on fine. Super glue didn't even want to do jack squat. It's better than having gaps and 5 extra screws.

If it's ABS you can chemically weld it with Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) or acetone (takes longer to dissolve) and make repair cement with ground ABS in either of those.

It's ABS

Always
Breaks
Surely

BitWrangler wrote on 2025-03-17, 18:38:

If it's ABS you can chemically weld it with Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) or acetone (takes longer to dissolve) and make repair cement with ground ABS in either of those.

I've found that MEK usually doesn't work well at all on this old brittle stuff. It can work well on newer plastics that are still solid. I think the issue is that this old plastic "crumbles" more than it breaks, meaning that the melted plastic doesn't really make a good bond. That, and even if you do get it to bond back together, it's still just as brittle. If it's in an area that is put under stress, it will just break again regardless.
JB Weld and/or other epoxies that actually add structural material are the way to go here.

There is also a kind of plastic that doesn't bond with certain kinds of glue, but rather melts into a goo that never solidifies into anything substantial.

BitWrangler wrote on 2025-03-16, 14:53:

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-12-31, 05:38:

I find myself pondering a very far off perfect Epson ActionNote 4slc/33, which is on the radar locally. Mono LCD, VGA only, no S, and of course the CPU doesn't exactly punch in the real 486 weight class. It is available and affordable though, and seems only to need a new HDD. I am thinking of it as "replacing" my z-lite 320 and z-star 433 which have numerous electronic problems, but worse, have plastics that have rotted to chocolate or cheeselike consistency, so while the electronics might be repaired, they might end up mounted to a literal breadboard for mechanical stability, and only used desktop style with kb/mon. So while I have a fondness for the plodding greyscales of those, nostalgia based since I owned the 320 from 1995, they are trending rapidly away from being able to be used in any manner similar to a laptop. Thus I find an ActionNote, which probably splits the performance difference between them, since the zstar has a slc2, somewhat attractive for it's apparent ability to maintain it's shape at least. Around the retro world, a couple of owners seem to be charmed by them, liking the crispness of the LCD, even if it has all the normal drawbacks, liking the keyboard, liking the size. Also quite appealing is the 2 serial ports. No PCMCIA to be had though. It has also been shown that an 8xAA battery holder fits in the battery compartment and can be populated with regular NiMh AAs.

Anyway, considering going for it, for ~'88 to '92 DOSing around, in whatever I can bear without color and with blur, and no sound apart from maybe speaker or if I make it a covox. Though actually, I find I really only play fast action games much on desktop anyway, need to sit up and focus, rather than slouch and chill.

I actually managed to surface from my recent torrent of BS long enough to grab this machine yesterday, was still for sale. Though some other flavorful morsels the seller had had sold. Not much more to tell about it so far, screen looks crisp, unit seems "low mileage" as regards key wear etc. Have to get it open and swap out the drive or see what's going on with it.

Got a moment yesterday to boot it off floppy and see what was what...
LM60 "135Mhz AT" and 2874.39 chr/ms and "33Mhz AT" deturboed. Sysinfo ver 6 was 52.5 and 12.6 deturboed.

The turbo only works off the FN key enabled numpad, so you have to mash 3 keys FN/Ctrl/Alt and numpad +/- ... Results appear consistent with these SLCs doing about 1.5x 286/386 16 bit performance for same clock. Sysinfo said the clock was at 8Mhz deturboed. So middling 286 speed and "high end 386" / "low end 486" speeds. Didn't get to mess around with any Cyrix util and turn the cache on and off etc to see if it went to 1:1 386 speed, as the floppy hung up and farted at me, track seek got stuck I think.

So, dug into it, 3 screws at front release keyboard and that lifts up and slots out from it's rear, then there's 4 screws and a ribbon connector to pop out the floppy. Can see the slider from underneath, "exercised" it manually and it didn't seem too stuck. The material looks like that self lubricating bronze so not real sure whether to put a drop of oil or something on it or not. Can't see the worm drive on the motor from that side. Looks like a PITA to further dismantle drive and q-tip seems too fat to clean it. Might have to fold a coffee filter or something. Drive in there is a Seagate 128MB, looking around for something else to put in since it is not detected. Connection seemed tight/good so maybe is drive failure. Wondering if I should just go PCMCIA card. I like "real" drives though in "character" machines. However, I only seem to have 40s and 80s around, which are a bit cramped and the cards I've got are 512.