Thanx for those tests.
I with MS-DOS 3.30 also have 4KB clusters on those max.32MB partitions, it handles cluster addresses as 14bit numbers,thus it cannot have more clusters & it also cannot do larger clusters to compensate.
Thanx for the test with 256MB HDD,I did not tested it yet on a drive larger than 130MB.
So maybe I will build 1 high-end 286 system...
But how did U make DOS 3.0 to allocate such a "huge" partition???

Sabina_16bit. wrote on 2025-03-04, 12:28:

I with MS-DOS 3.30 also have 4KB clusters on those max.32MB partitions

It should be 4-sector clusters = 2 KB.

Anyway, I'm moving it to another thread - DOS 3.00-3.30 limits, with a riddle

Most hated 64-bit I wouold go with either Vista (endless popups asking for permissions) or Win8 (most ugly GUI and no start button). But Win10 isn't much better either.
Every single restart I need to re-set the font sizes again because in some programs it's too small to be able to read it or too big so I can't even see all the necessary GUI elements or the window can't even be reduced in size because apparently it's the minimum size already (like steam client or skype). Good thing for me I don't like resetting my PC very often anyway because of all the different windows I keep open for all the stuff I'm constantly working on, but I rememb er with the older Windows's I could start up my PC and when reaching the desktop I could actually read every bit of text thrown at me just like that!!!1 Can you believe it? xD
(not even mentioning the always-online attitude and all the spyware and nagware it brings to the table these days).

But maybe I just don't see the benefits of going 4k etc, but worse is certain games and programs actually requiring certain minimum windows sizes.

Most 'hated' 32 bit and before, anything not Windows or DOS was just alien to me, but Windows I'd probably stick with Windows 98FE (crashes out of nowhere back when I used it), with NT4.0 (lack of game support mostly) or with Neptune (but latter is a beta so expected to be limited).

jheronimus wrote on 2025-03-01, 09:11:

Hot take, but I actually really like Windows ME. I think for the hardware you'd typically run it on, no DOS mode issue is overblown, but you get meaningful quality of life improvements, like faster boot time and faster network stack (the difference with Win98 has been 1.5-2x in my case).

Windows ME is my favorite Win9x and whenever (re)installing on period-appropriate hardware it is the first Windows I consider. Usually I use SE or older when ME has a bit too large of a hardware requirement footprint for my tastes.

I'm about to make a bunch of people angry but: FreeBSD. I have never gotten it to install and work correctly over the years.

Windows 8 and Windows 10/11 are close seconds though.

Android comes in third, specifically because of it preventing you from uninstalling bloatware.

midicollector wrote on 2025-03-16, 03:49:

I'm about to make a bunch of people angry but: FreeBSD. I have never gotten it to install and work correctly over the years.

I've actually had a similar experience. I gave up on installing it in a VM after it crashed for the third time while setting up X, then failed to fix the filesystem. OpenBSD has better architecture support anyway.

Hmm Hate is a strong word and Im not sure I hate any of them but ....if I had to pick one that just royally pissed me off and made me want to punch the screen it would have had to have been the Upgrade version of ME for Win98 SE.

Now Im normally a very calm and collected person but WTF was MS thinking when they decided that ME needed to have an upgrade edition ....The full OEM and Retail versions were fine since they needed to be installed on a clean HDD but the upgrade edition could be installed over a previous install of 98.

What a cluster fuck that version was when it inevitably decided it didn't want to install or worse did install and then blue screened as soon as it booted.

My only work around to save my sanity was to back the drive up before upgrading and then nuke and pave with an OEM copy of ME...at least the upgrade disc made a good coffee coaster.

What a festering pile of shit ME was.

Trashbytes wrote on 2025-03-16, 09:07:

Hmm Hate is a strong word and Im not sure I hate any of them but ....if I had to pick one that just royally pissed me off and ma […]
Show full quote

Hmm Hate is a strong word and Im not sure I hate any of them but ....if I had to pick one that just royally pissed me off and made me want to punch the screen it would have had to have been the Upgrade version of ME for Win98 SE.

Now Im normally a very calm and collected person but WTF was MS thinking when they decided that ME needed to have an upgrade edition ....The full OEM and Retail versions were fine since they needed to be installed on a clean HDD but the upgrade edition could be installed over a previous install of 98.

What a cluster fuck that version was when it inevitably decided it didn't want to install or worse did install and then blue screened as soon as it booted.

My only work around to save my sanity was to back the drive up before upgrading and then nuke and pave with an OEM copy of ME...at least the upgrade disc made a good coffee coaster.

What a festering pile of shit ME was.

Isn't that true of any of the 9x versions of windows though?
Upgrades are only as stable as the foundation and problem is I wouldn't call any version of 9x stable, even clean installs blue screen!
I always avoided upgrades until Windows 7 upgrading to Windows 8, even then I didn't like it but was a case of following orders and have to admit it sometimes worked better then clean installs with drivers

So.. most hated operating system.

Has to be IBM AIX. I really, really hate it. Tried to recover data off of a dead machine years ago and so bought another similar machine. Stupid OS has encyption and will not work with a newer version. I think the dead machine had 6.0 or a late 5.x and the machine I was able to source needed 6.1.

Stupid hard to find and completely incompatible with the older version. No way to unlock the drives. I could see them and see that they had data, but no way to access it.

Spent many hours trying to look up stuff and tried a bunch of different things and finally gave up and scrapped both machines.

I still have the 6.1 ISOs is anybody needs them.

chinny22 wrote on 2025-03-17, 03:05:

Isn't that true of any of the 9x versions of windows though? Upgrades are only as stable as the foundation and problem is I woul […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2025-03-16, 09:07:

Hmm Hate is a strong word and Im not sure I hate any of them but ....if I had to pick one that just royally pissed me off and ma […]
Show full quote

Hmm Hate is a strong word and Im not sure I hate any of them but ....if I had to pick one that just royally pissed me off and made me want to punch the screen it would have had to have been the Upgrade version of ME for Win98 SE.

Now Im normally a very calm and collected person but WTF was MS thinking when they decided that ME needed to have an upgrade edition ....The full OEM and Retail versions were fine since they needed to be installed on a clean HDD but the upgrade edition could be installed over a previous install of 98.

What a cluster fuck that version was when it inevitably decided it didn't want to install or worse did install and then blue screened as soon as it booted.

My only work around to save my sanity was to back the drive up before upgrading and then nuke and pave with an OEM copy of ME...at least the upgrade disc made a good coffee coaster.

What a festering pile of shit ME was.

Isn't that true of any of the 9x versions of windows though?
Upgrades are only as stable as the foundation and problem is I wouldn't call any version of 9x stable, even clean installs blue screen!
I always avoided upgrades until Windows 7 upgrading to Windows 8, even then I didn't like it but was a case of following orders and have to admit it sometimes worked better then clean installs with drivers

This is true but MS did push the Upgrade version pretty heavily to get people off 98. Kinda how they are pushing shit up hill with Windows 11.

Windows 8
And the
Microsoft Phone.

I Feel like installing Windows 8 on my Laptop

Trashbytes wrote on 2025-03-16, 09:07:

Now Im normally a very calm and collected person but WTF was MS thinking when they decided that ME needed to have an upgrade edition ....The full OEM and Retail versions were fine since they needed to be installed on a clean HDD but the upgrade edition could be installed over a previous install of 98.

So the upgrade edition was $20 after a rebate, I believe, the cheapest offering ever. People that at the time that were familiar with what Microsoft had been doing a little while with upgrade editions, knew that upgrade editions will perform clean installs just like the "full" releases if you just provide a previous OS CD. This is what we did. It worked very well. System restore had a pretty big bug, but we turned it off, well at least until we patched that bug. Driver stability seems to be the issue for some people, but that was the same problem with Win98, but actually improved a little with WinMe, since it actually comes with the most up to date drivers out of any release...

Now, I believe the upgrade function did work as it usually did in any 9x. But as with any OS, live upgrades aren't a guarantee. I still maintain that real reason why WinMe is so hated is Microsoft employees themselves sowed the seeds of hate for the WinMe release, prior to the release to try to kill the product as quickly as possible.

As far as botched releases of Windows, I think that ranking higher are Windows 8.0 (reinventing into something people didn't want), and Windows 98 First Edition (for stability reasons coming from IE4 and desktop update, and some on the new driver architecture). Yeah Windows releases usually improved after applying patches, so it's hard to say those were complete failures. But now, I'd think it's terrible that Win10/11 are getting progressively worse with their regular update cycles and who knows, maybe Win12 will be the worst one when that one materializes.

Let alone never owned but I have somehow never used a computer that had Windows 8.x on it. Somehow there was the golden 7 era and then stuff gradually emigrated to 10.

Cyberdyne wrote on 2025-03-18, 03:45:

Let alone never owned but I have somehow never used a computer that had Windows 8.x on it. Somehow there was the golden 7 era and then stuff gradually emigrated to 10.

I used 8.1 for a long while, but had Startallback on it which killed off the tablet UI and restored the start menu along with other desktop functions.

It wasn't a terrible experience not that different from Windows 10 honestly.

Windows 11. The main reason is I can no longer trust my operating system to still function the same way it did last time the next time it boots, and the whole concept of forced updates (I know you can prevent these to some extent) just rubs me the wrong way. I need to be able to trust in my PC working any time I need it, and not some driver to be screwed or change or incompatible feature to be added just because I am using older or 'less popular' hardware, software or drivers.

Windows 10 started this, but the increase of unwanted bloat, privacy issues and overal increase in frequence and decrease of quality control of updates make Windows 11 take the cake for me.

sndwv wrote on 2025-03-18, 09:52:

Windows 11. The main reason is I can no longer trust my operating system to still function the same way it did last time the next time it boots, and the whole concept of forced updates (I know you can prevent these to some extent)

At least until Windows resets the setting at an unknown point. I'll have to reinstall it for the third time on my main PC.

Trashbytes wrote on 2025-03-18, 09:07:

I used 8.1 for a long while, but had Startallback on it which killed off the tablet UI and restored the start menu along with other desktop functions.
It wasn't a terrible experience not that different from Windows 10 honestly.

I still run 7 on most of my desktops... when it gets to the point that it's not good for net
stuff... I have a couple chromebooks.

My "tiny travelling machine" is a Win 8.1 tablet - it's not so terrible when you get used to it. I almost never
use the tablet UI - I pretty much always launch "Desktop" right away. I have a little bluetooth keyboard and
mouse - so the experience is "mostly" like 7.

I can't decide on any specific OS/version as my "most hated"...

I don't tolerate any software that acts on its own.
I don't tolerate software calling home without my specific order.
I don't tolerate software that requires online activation.

A good program does what I demand, all what I demand, and only what I demand.

So, naturally, I will never use Windows on my main computer.
And there's no way for me to keep any important data on a phone, or a similar device.

PC forever!
And I demand the "PC" to have its original meaning - *PERSONAL* Computer.
A thing under my total, PERSONAL control.

Back during my undergrad in the early 2000s, I used to fix computers for pocket money. Any system I came across that had Windows ME on it was usually a recipe for pain, but not necessarily because of the OS itself; instead, it was a symptom of the PC being used by a family that had zero concept of online safety, and it would be loaded down with spyware, browser toolbars, and desktop avatars. After an hour or two of cleaning crap out of it, un-installing/reconfiguring Kazaa/LimeWire to remove all the software that hitched a ride, and installing something like AVG or Avast, the system would finally be useable again. Often as a bizarre hybrid of essential for the parents' work while also a recreation machine for their teenage children to pirate music (movies were out of the question, since no one in that rural area had broadband).

I still have a bit of a flinch response to Windows ME, but it wasn't its fault that it was bundled on under-specced, abused budget PCs. The same can be said for Vista; it wasn't too bad, when it wasn't paired with a terrible cheap laptop that had 1 GB of RAM and a slow 5400 RPM hard drive.

MadMac_5 wrote on 2025-03-18, 16:26:

Back during my undergrad in the early 2000s, I used to fix computers for pocket money. Any system I came across that had Windows ME on it was usually a recipe for pain, but not necessarily because of the OS itself; instead, it was a symptom of the PC being used by a family that had zero concept of online safety, and it would be loaded down with spyware, browser toolbars, and desktop avatars. After an hour or two of cleaning crap out of it, un-installing/reconfiguring Kazaa/LimeWire to remove all the software that hitched a ride, and installing something like AVG or Avast, the system would finally be useable again. Often as a bizarre hybrid of essential for the parents' work while also a recreation machine for their teenage children to pirate music (movies were out of the question, since no one in that rural area had broadband).

I still have a bit of a flinch response to Windows ME, but it wasn't its fault that it was bundled on under-specced, abused budget PCs. The same can be said for Vista; it wasn't too bad, when it wasn't paired with a terrible cheap laptop that had 1 GB of RAM and a slow 5400 RPM hard drive.

I have Vista Ultimate with all patches running on a 2600k .. once you put it on hardware comparable to what Win7 requires Vista is ... not at all different from 7, which isnt unusual as Win7 is Vista with further updates.

i consider Win7 to be Windows Vista SE, the two are that similar.

chinny22 wrote on 2025-02-28, 00:29:

Windows 8 and those whole charms bar thing.
It was even worse on Windows 12 over RDP connections.

Only time I ever had to google how to shutdown a windows computer.