RubDub2k wrote on 2025-03-20, 04:05:

it seems like the MX400 is the better option here, as it has more pixel shaders,

No Geforce2/4 MX card has pixel shaders.

Period.

RubDub2k wrote on 2025-03-20, 04:05:

I'm confident Myst, Riven, Dune 2000, Rollercoaster Tycoon and Fallout 2 will run fine,

Given the older-than-T&L era you're interested in, I'd avoid the whole Geforce lineage for driver issues regarding screen palettes alone. The image quality won't be the best either.

The Geforce2 becomes more practical when it's then-current games like Battlefield 1942 you care about and don't mind not playing anything older, as legacy compatibility is a gamble on nVidia, despite the whole 'way it's meant to be played' slogan going on.

leileilol wrote on 2025-03-20, 04:37:

No Geforce2/4 MX card has pixel shaders.

Period.

Oh, I looked at this site for the mx 400 in general, it suggested the card had 2 pixel shaders while the Radeon had 1...
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/nvidia- … pci-64-mb.b1569

I know some sites out there are reportedly not accurate/reliable for technical specs, which is why I'm asking here to get people's actual lived experience on hardware I haven't used. Would you recommend the Radeon in that case then? My goal is for those games to be just a fun, playable experience on my machine, so even if you think it'd be able to hit those mid-level graphics settings I'd be more than happy. Thanks for the response!

Yeah I wouldn't trust that place. Generated articles, misinformation (i.e. the cited Jan 1999 quadro launch date I "have to remember") and they exclude wayback for some reason....

MX400 on the picture above is AGP version not PCI. So, if your motherboard doesn't have AGP slot - take Radeon 7000.
Otherwise MX400 is much faster, and much better choice (even better is Geforce 4MX 440 128bit - twice as fast as 2MX and in the same price range).

BTW: What is your CPU and motherboard ?

zyga64 wrote on 2025-03-20, 06:15:

MX400 on the picture above is AGP version not PCI. So, if your motherboard doesn't have AGP slot - take Radeon 7000.
Otherwise MX400 is much faster, and much better choice (even better is Geforce 4MX 440 128bit - twice as fast as 2MX and in the same price range).

Oh you're totally right Zyga, it is an AGP card... I totally forgot I grabbed that card from an old Dell Dimension which had an AGP slot...

zyga64 wrote on 2025-03-20, 06:15:

BTW: What is your CPU and motherboard ?

My 98 Machine is based on an HP Brio BA 400 I got for free, so it isn't going to be a killer by any means, which is why I'm not looking for a crazy card to put into it. It currently has 256 MB of SDRAM (2x128) and a 466 MHz Celeron; I've ordered a 256 MB SDRAM stick to bring the total up to 384 MB, which I think should be enough for Windows 98 (Is there any real noticeable benefit above that amount for that system? All the games I plan to run recommend 128 MB as a maximum). I also ordered a 600 MHz Celeron to replace the 466 MHz Celeron, which should hopefully help at least a little... from this PDF, it looks like that's the best CPU this little machine can handle: https://theretroweb.com/motherboard/manual/br … e7085079978.pdf

So I guess in the case of the graphics card, I'll look into a MX440, but I'm only seeing AGP ones online for a reasonable price (that are working)... Might just have to stick to the Radeon 7000. Is there any reason that card wouldn't be able to handle medium-ish settings for those games at 1024x768?

Maybe it will be cheaper to replace motherboard, and then get AGP gfx card? Looks like it is mATX one.

Radeon 7000 (VE) is the weakest of all Radeons, which doesn't have hardware T'n'L...

leileilol wrote on 2025-03-20, 04:37:

No Geforce2/4 MX card has pixel shaders.

Period.

🤔🤔

It's tough to find PCI 3D accelerators at a low price. I've tried, and had bad luck with getting faulty ones. I have a lot of AGP cards but my PCI collection is mostly empty holes.

I don't know much about the requirements of those games, so I won't try to say how well the 7000 would run them.
Is there a picture of the top side of that Radeon 7000? If you're undecided about the performance then it might be worth figuring out how fast the RAM is. The labeling on the bottom side says DDR, and usually that means 64-bit DDR with these cards. I did get a 128-bit DDR 7000 though (AGP), so that possibility exists but I think it's uncommon.
I found and bought an original Radeon (7200) PCI card about a year ago, it POSTed once and never again. Still frustrated about that.

The Radeon 7500 and 7200 are a lot faster than 7000, but with PCI it's hard to find exactly what you want. Getting an AGP motherboard would liberate you from that frustration. Will that case take a standard motherboard? You'd probably have to adapt the power switch and LED connections.

It's kind of amazing how quickly PCI died when AGP was introduced. Even a Riva128 is much rarer in PCI than AGP. It's hard to believe it made a damn bit of difference at that stage, but as soon as AGP existed people were convinced PCI would cripple them. So they'd always upgrade their motherboard first and get the AGP version.

As I've said in the other thread - MX400 is out of the question unless you swap the mainboard. The current MB your HP uses has no AGP slot (and no 810 based motherboard has ever had one - the 810 doesn't even have an AGP interface I'd guess) so at best you're limited to the Radeon 7000.

If you need AGP, you'll need a new motherboard with either VIA 694x, Intel 440BX/ZX or i815 in the microATX format.

Yeah I saw your other reply, thanks PcBytes. I totally spaced on the fact that MX400 was an AGP, with both PCI and AGP having a three-pronged connector my brain just automatically thinks PCI, as I've only ever seen a PC with an AGP slot once in person.

I think the Brio is the "Baby AT" or Mini ATX form factor, as it is a small computer, so I don't think it'd be worth it to drop a new motherboard in there (once I put a new motherboard in, then all I'm really going to reuse at that point is the case and drives... might as well just go out and buy an entirely different PC). I might just try keeping the Radeon 7000 card in there for now and once I install some games on it, then I'll just find out if its passable for what I want to play. If not, then I guess I'll start all over again 😒

Thanks everybody, this has been really helpful!

It's microATX. Your mobo (albeit HP's naming is weird... the same board is released both as Hawk and Blackjack) is an ASUS MEW-VM, and the size is about right for microATX.

https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/asus-mew-vm

cansting wrote on 2025-03-20, 11:40:

🤔🤔

Good luck seeing all the tests on 3DMark2001!!!