this sounds like a "Monitor does not support that refresh rate and resolution" issue, and is not actually an issue with the PC itself.

There are a number of devices out there to intercept and change the scanrate of these modes, to make modern LCD/Flatpanel displays happy.

wierd_w wrote on 2024-06-09, 16:50:

this sounds like a "Monitor does not support that refresh rate and resolution" issue, and is not actually an issue with the PC itself.

There are a number of devices out there to intercept and change the scanrate of these modes, to make modern LCD/Flatpanel displays happy.

Hey, thank you. So what do you recommend me?

In my adventures building myself a couple retro gaming computers recently, one for DOS/Windows 3.11 and one for Windows 95/DOS, I quickly discovered that most modern VGA to HDMI adapters do not play well with DOS resolutions. If you look at the product descriptions on some of them, they list their lowest supported resolutions, but many do not. So the buyer is often unaware there are limitations to the adapter until they go to use it.

All of those VGA to HDMI adapters are active adapters, hence the USB connection most of them have, to supply power to the internals that convert the analog VGA signal to the digital HDMI one. They were designed to use "somewhat" older hardware on displays with only digital input, like HDMI, and do not do any real scaling to the signal coming in. When you go back as far as DOS, and those much lower resolutions, they tend to not work all that well, even if the display your using actually does support the resolution, it may not get through the adapter.

In my case, I have monitors that still have VGA inputs on them, but I also ended up just buying a used Extron VGA to DVI hardware scaler off eBay so I could capture the output from my low resolution machines, or hook them up to digital only displays should the need arise.

I have no idea if that's the problem you're having, but I wanted to put it on your radar, just in case.

EDIT: Stupid typos... 😀

What exactly do you mean by "can't get good FPS rates" with the FX5200? Because that's probably what the real issue is: the DOS games use video modes that run at 70Hz (fps), which most HDMI TVs won't be able to display. There's not going to any real way around this; either the framerate will be uneven (because it will be 70fps content displayed at 60fps) or you'll have to upgrade to a display that can handle at least 70Hz.

StriderTR wrote on 2024-06-09, 21:46:

In my adventures building myself a couple retro gaming computers recently, one for DOS/Windows 3.11 and one for Windows 95/DOS, […]
Show full quote

In my adventures building myself a couple retro gaming computers recently, one for DOS/Windows 3.11 and one for Windows 95/DOS, I quickly discovered that most modern VGA to HDMI adapters do not play well with DOS resolutions. If you look at the product descriptions on some of them, they list their lowest supported resolutions, but many do not. So the buyer is often unaware there are limitations to the adapter until they go to use it.

All of those VGA to HDMI adapters are active adapters, hence the USB connection most of them have, to supply power to the internals that convert the analog VGA signal to the digital HDMI one. They were designed to use "somewhat" older hardware on displays with only digital input, like HDMI, and do not do any real scaling to the signal coming in. When you go back as far as DOS, and those much lower resolutions, they tend to not work all that well, even if the display your using actually does support the resolution, it may not get through the adapter.

In my case, I have monitors that still have VGA inputs on them, but I also ended up just buying a used Extron VGA to DVI hardware scaler off eBay so I could capture the output from my low resolution machines, or hook them up to digital only displays should the need arise.

I have no idea if that's the problem you're having, but I wanted to put it on your radar, just in case.

EDIT: Stupid typos... 😀

Hi.

Last night I was reading some topics and I read exactly the same Capturing DOS games on Vintage PC

I'm using this vga-hdmi adapter https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B0B1Q2DLR9/r … e?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So I think first of all I have to change the adapter. I read something about philcomputerslab's one but I dont know where could I buy it.

jmarsh wrote on 2024-06-09, 23:42:

What exactly do you mean by "can't get good FPS rates" with the FX5200? Because that's probably what the real issue is: the DOS games use video modes that run at 70Hz (fps), which most HDMI TVs won't be able to display. There's not going to any real way around this; either the framerate will be uneven (because it will be 70fps content displayed at 60fps) or you'll have to upgrade to a display that can handle at least 70Hz.

Answering your first question, some games are incredibly smoother with MX440 than with fx5200 128mb. GP500 or NFSIII for example are unplayable with FX. I tried a lot of drivers also.

Any ideas?

Is a good idea to spent money on a voodoo 3 3000 with mi rig?

Buy a CRT

+1 for CRT monitor if you can find one at decent price and condition, those are the ideal ones for retro gaming.

The alternative would be finding a 4:3 LCD monitor with VGA output that handles 70 Hz screen refresh rate.

There is no other option? I really dont have any room to use a crt monitor. This is why I'm looking for a vga-hdmi converter, to use my TV.

CRT will give you 100% success rate but fully understand are not always an option (I don't have one either)

I think Gmlb256's suggestion of an old LCD screen with VGA output is the better option.

VGA is the most important thing to look for, anything else you run the risk of having compatibility issues.
Next is screen size 4:3 will give you the correct aspect ratio, 5:4 is a little stretched, but many don't notice.
Wide screen monitors will often let you lack the aspect ratio with black bars down the side but often this doesn't work resolutions below 800x600 which means a lot of dos games stretch out and look terrible.

To start with I'd just try and pick up some cheap/free second-hand screen and test.

A better adapter may exist, but I've never looked into it. Ones recommended for use with old gaming consoles may be better? (not sure though)

Also I'd say if CRT is off the table, old 4:3 LCD is the next best thing, and is usually found for free in your local market (can't beat that cheap).

For better converters, I use OSSC 1.7 on my TurboXT and 486 machines. It works great after adjusting its parameters, and it gives me 90% of the CRT feel with its black lines effect. It outputs to a 1920x1080 LCD. I had it sitting next to a CRT connected on the same VGA output for direct comparison. They match 90% with just a very small amount of additional sharpness in the CRT in the lower resolutions (DOS and 640x480). On higher resolutions (800x600 and above), the OSSC passes the signal through without upscaling. Here the CRT starts to lose its distinctive scanlines, and has less clarity at higher resolutions. The LCD image quality beats the CRT at that point.

OSSC is quite expensive, and will not remove the requirement of a 70hz-capable monitor (it doesn't fix refresh rates). It's just to fill the gap of lower resolutions not handled by your monitor..

I recently scored a very nice Dell 4:3 LCD for free recently. Often, folks that have them are eager to dispose of them.

It does VGA, HDMI, and DP inputs (but strangely, not DVI, not that it matters. DVI->HDMI is cheap and easy)

I have not tested if it can handle refresh rates above 60 though.

A very modern 4k TV should be able to handle the higher refresh rate though, since the higher end 4k spec says it needs to support 120hz refresh. As long as the actual resolution is scandoubled (or tripled) to a size the panel can tolerate, the refresh shouldnt be a problem on such a high end display. It just seems.... silly... to need such a display for 640x480 8bit color. 😜

M10 wrote on 2024-06-09, 16:37:

Asus P5PE-VM - C2D E6700 - G4 MX440 AGP - Windows 98

Hi folks. Im already stuck here, hehe!

I would like to ask you a couple of things. Is normal with this computer get 6200 on 3dmark?

I have the determination of sell this gpu, also fx5200, and buy a powerful one, like radeon 9800, idk.

About "no signal" problem on dos, I have a Xiaomi 32", I dont have room for a crt or lcd screen. So now I can play a game if it's installed, the problem is that I can not install the game on dos, for example, screamer rally, 1996 ace ventura game, pink panther pinkadelic pursuit, etc.

I'm gonna try different vga-hdmi converter, I have one i bought on amazon but it doesnt work.

PS: Should I try P4 or this e6700 is ok?

Sorry for my english and thanks a lot.

Don't muck about with cheap converters. I use an OSSC with my old Dos PC's. It does require quite a bit of configuring to get everything looking right though.
You can get them cheaper from Aliexpress, just purchase from a seller with good ratings.

Like I said in my original post, most modern VGA to HDMI converters can't handle DOS resolutions or refresh rates. I have yet to find one that works, and I've tried several.

Some modern monitors can handle those old resolutions, but it's very rare to find a modern TV that will work. If I were you, I would look into...

1. Buy a used good quality hardware scaler on eBay or somewhere else. I use an Extron RGB-DVI 300. They are cheap on eBay and work great, about $40 USD. There is also an HDMI version, but they cost more. With the DVI version you can just use a DVI to HDMI dongle to hook up to any modern display.

2. OSCC. The Open Source Scan Converter is available all over the place. They cost more but work wonderfully, they also come in a few different variants. I know several people that use and love them.

There are other options, but the price keeps going up.

StriderTR wrote on 2025-03-29, 17:31:

Like I said in my original post, most modern VGA to HDMI converters can't handle DOS resolutions or refresh rates. I have yet to […]
Show full quote

Like I said in my original post, most modern VGA to HDMI converters can't handle DOS resolutions or refresh rates. I have yet to find one that works, and I've tried several.

Some modern monitors can handle those old resolutions, but it's very rare to find a modern TV that will work. If I were you, I would look into...

1. Buy a used good quality hardware scaler on eBay or somewhere else. I use an Extron RGB-DVI 300. They are cheap on eBay and work great, about $40 USD. There is also an HDMI version, but they cost more. With the DVI version you can just use a DVI to HDMI dongle to hook up to any modern display.

2. OSCC. The Open Source Scan Converter is available all over the place. They cost more but work wonderfully, they also come in a few different variants. I know several people that use and love them.

There are other options, but the price keeps going up.

Option 2 gives sharper results AND preserves the refresh rate, which is an advantage, in that it keeps motion smooth, BUT, in OP's case, that is likely a disadvantage or even possibly something the OSSC completely unsuitable IF OP's screen does not handle 70Hz.

Option 1, with the Extron unit would be a safer bet, as it will convert everything to 60Hz (that is not alreadyat 60Hz) , which is more compatible.

darry wrote on 2025-03-30, 10:50:

Option 2 gives sharper results AND preserves the refresh rate, which is an advantage, in that it keeps motion smooth, BUT, in OP's case, that is likely a disadvantage or even possibly something the OSSC completely unsuitable IF OP's screen does not handle 70Hz.

Option 1, with the Extron unit would be a safer bet, as it will convert everything to 60Hz (that is not already at 60Hz) , which is more compatible.

Good points.

Personally, I really like my Extron. For DOS gaming, there really is no perceivable input "lag", and it just works. I bought mine to make it easier to capture DOS output with modern capture devices (StarTech USB3/DVI Device).

Of course, the best option in my opinion, short of a CRT, won't work for the OP, a good used older LCD that supports what he needs. I use an old Dell 4:3 LCD and it works perfectly.

The problem is that is quite difficult to find one Extron here in Spain. I think its too much to pay 50€ shippment from US.

Also I need vga-hdmi converter, not DVI.

darry wrote on 2025-03-30, 10:50:

completely unsuitable IF OP's screen does not handle 70Hz.

Idk honestly. I'm using as a second monitor a Xiaomi L32M5-5ASP where I connect my XP and W98 rigs.

DVI and HDMI are compatible. Passive adapters to "convert" between them are cheap.