That's how I end up having different systems for Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Duke Nukem 3D... 😅

Then 3D acceleration started. Oh man...

keropi wrote on 2025-04-01, 05:43:

installing cache will make a significant difference, it's kinda of important if you want to get the most out of the system

Any idea what i should be looking for ?

Thanks

Daniel

Daniel4200 wrote on 2025-04-01, 06:48:

Any idea what i should be looking for ? […]
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keropi wrote on 2025-04-01, 05:43:

installing cache will make a significant difference, it's kinda of important if you want to get the most out of the system

Any idea what i should be looking for ?

Thanks

Daniel

you need 9pcs of 32K x8 sram chips, 20ns and lower , these are DIP28 "skinny" pagkages
chips like the W24257 , W24256, IS61C256, UM61256 etc will work fine
a lot like this will be fine: https://www.ebay.ie/itm/296229005483

keropi wrote on 2025-04-01, 07:02:

you need 9pcs of 32K x8 sram chips, 20ns and lower , these are DIP28 "skinny" pagkages chips like the W24257 , W24256, IS61C256, […]
Show full quote

Daniel4200 wrote on 2025-04-01, 06:48:

Any idea what i should be looking for ? […]
Show full quote

keropi wrote on 2025-04-01, 05:43:

installing cache will make a significant difference, it's kinda of important if you want to get the most out of the system

Any idea what i should be looking for ?

Thanks

Daniel

you need 9pcs of 32K x8 sram chips, 20ns and lower , these are DIP28 "skinny" pagkages
chips like the W24257 , W24256, IS61C256, UM61256 etc will work fine
a lot like this will be fine: https://www.ebay.ie/itm/296229005483

Fantastic thanks 😊

PD2JK wrote on 2025-04-01, 06:20:

That's how I end up having different systems for Wolfenstein 3D, Doom, Duke Nukem 3D... 😅

Then 3D acceleration started. Oh man...

Ah, the Rabbit Hole indeed.

You can go completely crazy with multiple systems.

That said, there are a few practical points to cover as many scenarios as possible. One of them is pretty close to this system: a 486-33 (SX or DX doesn't really matter) with L2 cache and a turbo.button.

It's fast enough to run the first really demanding generation of DOS games from before the generic DOS extenders, things like Wing Commander, Ultima 7, but it's also slow enough to get down to XT speeds with the press of the turbo button. Just about anything that runs too slow on this will run fine on a Pentium (2...), better than say on the kind.of DX/2 you could potentially upgrade this system to. It can also have a config optimized for free conventional memory.

So my advice is not to upgrade to the fastest possible CPU for the sake of upgrading. That also helps with the selection of (a) sound card(s) - a system focused on 33MHz and slower can prioritise SB1.0, intelligent mode MPU401 + MT32/Munt etc (and/or more exotic stuff). Save the 16b audio and fancy stuff that might need memory-eating tsrs etc for faster systems.

So I think I now know what I'm going to do with this desktop.

1 fresh install of dos just waiting for the disk to be delivered

2 max out the display adaptor to 1mb.

3 upgrade the onboard cache.

4 Buy a suitable sound card.

5 install a couple of games and play for 10 mins.

6 Maybe upgrade the CPU probably to a 66mhz
Also possibly install window before placing the desktop under my desk where it will gather dust because I have forgotten it's there.

A case can also be made towards leaving it as is; just add a sound card.

It will play the whole gaggle of quest games in a very era appropriate way.

It would be nice to have a running example of an sx25 in a time capsule kind of way.

Doom anyway runs nicer on a pentium.

I think you have pretty much spot on with your plan, especially that last point.

Daniel4200 wrote on 2025-04-01, 17:35:

So I think I now know what I'm going to do with this desktop.
Also possibly install window before placing the desktop under my desk where it will gather dust because I have forgotten it's there.

I do love the 486, I own 3! but have to admit they don't really make for great retro rigs either too fast for earlier games or too slow for later games.
Besides All your upgrades are reversable so no big deal if you do change your mind down the track

Daniel4200 wrote on 2025-04-01, 17:35:

So I think I now know what I'm going to do with this desktop.

[...]

6 Maybe upgrade the CPU probably to a 66mhz

Anything that needs a 66MHz CPU will be hopelessly bottlenecked by the ISA VGA - but 66MHz is still fast enough to cause more trouble with CPU-sensitive old games. I really would recommend going up to max 33MHz, if at all.

dionb wrote on 2025-04-02, 11:03:

Daniel4200 wrote on 2025-04-01, 17:35:

So I think I now know what I'm going to do with this desktop.

[...]

6 Maybe upgrade the CPU probably to a 66mhz

Anything that needs a 66MHz CPU will be hopelessly bottlenecked by the ISA VGA - but 66MHz is still fast enough to cause more trouble with CPU-sensitive old games. I really would recommend going up to max 33MHz, if at all.

33mhz it is then

The Contender motherboard is listed on the old Viglen website, unfortunately the links go dead from there. See bottom of this:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000306001253/htt … otherboards.htm
Also there were video drivers which are mirrored here: https://download.xma.co.uk/Motherboards/Archive/Contender_1/
Based on the 9155-01 cpu/bus clock generator and your current jumpers for 25Mhz (comparing to other boards with same), E7 should be like this:
CPU Mhz Jumpers
20 MHz 1-2 Closed
25 MHz 3-4 5-6 Closed * current setting
33 MHz 3-4 Closed
40 MHz 5-6 Closed

You can test this by changing to 20Mhz and see if it boots and what the BIOS says....
added: figuring out the cache jumpers and cpu jumpers will be a diff story !. If you upgrade to a sx33 you should not need change any jumpers but the cpu clock....which we can easily figure out...

Note that unless you want to do something very niche (i.e. run stuff that needs/wants an FPU but runs well on a 486-33; even though a handful of games as far back as SimCity could use an FPU, Quake was the first 'killer app' that needed it - and no way will Quake run acceptably on a system like this anyway) there's no practical difference between SX and DX performance. Unlike with the 386 (where SX has half the bus width, lower memory support etc) the only difference in 486 is the FPU; in the DX it's present and active, in the SX it's either not present or disabled. So if you can't find settings for DX vs SX, it's no big deal.

Most 486sx25 cpu run fine at 33 and some take 40 stable of you add a sink+fan. You may try that to oc your rig 😁
Here I run a SX25 at 40 on some early 486 machine just fine. Also just ISA cards (VLB is present but isn't working) and also 4MB ram. No game that actually demands more ram or fpu as far as this goes. Maybe win3.x can use more ram, but that's where my faster stuff kicks in.
I consider it a pumped up 386 machine 😀

Horun wrote on 2025-04-03, 01:13:

The Contender motherboard is listed on the old Viglen website, unfortunately the links go dead from there. See bottom of this: h […]
Show full quote

The Contender motherboard is listed on the old Viglen website, unfortunately the links go dead from there. See bottom of this:
http://web.archive.org/web/20000306001253/htt … otherboards.htm
Also there were video drivers which are mirrored here: https://download.xma.co.uk/Motherboards/Archive/Contender_1/
Based on the 9155-01 cpu/bus clock generator and your current jumpers for 25Mhz (comparing to other boards with same), E7 should be like this:
CPU Mhz Jumpers
20 MHz 1-2 Closed
25 MHz 3-4 5-6 Closed * current setting
33 MHz 3-4 Closed
40 MHz 5-6 Closed

You can test this by changing to 20Mhz and see if it boots and what the BIOS says....
added: figuring out the cache jumpers and cpu jumpers will be a diff story !. If you upgrade to a sx33 you should not need change any jumpers but the cpu clock....which we can easily figure out...

Thanks

This will be really helpful it i do upgrade the cpu.

For now I'm just waiting for the extra cache and disks to be delivered. Then maybe play a little Frontier Elite.

Have a look at the picomem and/or picogus cards - would be a cheap way of getting sound, networking and reliable storage
Or, if you prefer to go real old hardware, a CF to IDE adapter - you might need a way of getting XTIDE to boot off it though - that can be a bit of a faff

chinny22 wrote on 2025-04-02, 00:56:

I think you have pretty much spot on with your plan, especially that last point. […]
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I think you have pretty much spot on with your plan, especially that last point.

Daniel4200 wrote on 2025-04-01, 17:35:

So I think I now know what I'm going to do with this desktop.
Also possibly install window before placing the desktop under my desk where it will gather dust because I have forgotten it's there.

I do love the 486, I own 3! but have to admit they don't really make for great retro rigs either too fast for earlier games or too slow for later games.
Besides All your upgrades are reversable so no big deal if you do change your mind down the track

The thing I find about 486s is that they are always a worthy opponent in the battle to get them to do what you want 😉

squelch41 wrote on 2025-04-03, 21:56:

Have a look at the picomem and/or picogus cards - would be a cheap way of getting sound, networking and reliable storage
Or, if you prefer to go real old hardware, a CF to IDE adapter - you might need a way of getting XTIDE to boot off it though - that can be a bit of a faff

That picomem card looks like a pretty jandy piece of kit.

That might be something for the future. Im not sure if I would want networking but reliable storage is a good shout.

Networking is always a good idea, if only a DOS packet driver and mTCP tools to be able to use FTP for file sharing (tip: run the server on the old system so you can use a nice easy modern client like Filezilla on the other end)

I'm old-fashioned and use wired Ethernet for that, but PicoMEM's wireless options are intriguing. I have one here just waiting for me to play around with it.

Some upgrades I would do to this computer
Sony 52x CDROM drive
8mb of RAM is good enough
64kb of Cache is Good enough
Hard drive is okay
I would upgrade the video card with 1mb card Cirrus logic 54xx or Et4000 or VLB if it will fit in ISA slot.
Get a Sound blaster sound card.
Network card 3com 3c509 eitherlink III
Upgrade the CPU to a 486dx2-66 or better.
Win95b is the Best Operating system for the 486 CPU

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2025-04-04, 13:13:

Some upgrades I would do to this computer Sony 52x CDROM drive 8mb of RAM is good enough 64kb of Cache is Good enough Hard driv […]
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Some upgrades I would do to this computer
Sony 52x CDROM drive
8mb of RAM is good enough
64kb of Cache is Good enough
Hard drive is okay
I would upgrade the video card with 1mb card Cirrus logic 54xx or Et4000
Get a Sound blaster sound card.
Network card 3com 3c509 eitherlink III
Upgrade the CPU to a 486dx2-66 or better.

a new core i9 at least!!

to be honest if i'd received a PC like this i don't think i'd upgrade all that much, i'd enjoy it as is, maybe turn it into a programming museum piece and add some DOS win16 applications of the time. After all, any games etc will likely run on a later machine or DOSBOX anyway.