VOGONS


First post, by willinliv

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Hi All,

Just recently got my hands on an OSSC. All going very well sandwiching it between a Win98 machine and Asus Tuf Gaming VG249QL3A Freesync display. But a fly in the ointment is that it seems all my Apogee games don't have the correct colours. Has anybody had this as well and able to offer any suggestions on resolving it?

I have got an OSSC v1.8 which is giving this issue, but had previously tried a 1.6 and I think I could adjust tnings in RGB gain settings but no joy so far. Marq on videogameperfection suggested adjusting the Clamp/ALC offset but this just makes the image darker. Looks to me like grey is lost and the picture is too red/no white. Rest of Windows and even older games ok. Any ideas? Thanks, Will

keen1.jpg
winok.jpg

Reply 1 of 8, by keenmaster486

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What's your video card? Check the compatibility matrix; some cards do this in EGA modes: https://gona.mactar.hu/DOS_TESTS/

World's foremost 486 enjoyer.

Reply 2 of 8, by wbahnassi

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Yep, I ran across a couple of cards that did that. It's not the fault of OSSC. I used OSSC on MDA, CGA, EGA and VGA cards. None had any issues with colors. When I had the issue you're showing, it showed on my Dell 27" monitor that has a direct VGA input. I tried right away on a CRT and it produced the same color artifacts.. turned out it was the graphics card. I forgot which card caused this, but I asked about the issue here and there's a software fix for it.

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, TSeng ET3000, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
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Reply 3 of 8, by wbahnassi

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And here is a link to the topic, which has a link to the topic:

Commander Keen games have a red tint

Turbo XT 12MHz, 8-bit VGA, Dual 360K drives
Intel 386 DX-33, TSeng ET3000, SB 1.5, 1x CD
Intel 486 DX2-66, CL5428 VLB, SBPro 2, 2x CD
Intel Pentium 90, Matrox Millenium 2, SB16, 4x CD
HP Z400, Xeon 3.46GHz, YMF-744, Voodoo3, RTX2080Ti

Reply 4 of 8, by Tiido

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It may help to change the clamp/ALC setting toward a negative value, with the assumption that this changes the black reference sampling point after sync pulse, and that the tint is due to border extending into that area, causing incorrect black reference and thus messed up color on rest of the line.

T-04YBSC, a new YMF71x based sound card & Official VOGONS thread about it
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mida sa loed ? nagunii aru ei saa 😜

Reply 5 of 8, by keenmaster486

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Yeah, that thread wbahnassi posted has the fix linked therein: wbcbz7's MS-DOS VGA TSR goodies

I had forgotten about that.

World's foremost 486 enjoyer.

Reply 6 of 8, by clb

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What is unique about Commander Keen and Catacomb 3D and other Apogee games is that they use the VGA border/overscan area (the space between active framebuffer and display blank) for an artistic effect, adjusting it from black to some other color: cyan in the case of Commander Keen games.

So it does then sound that the root problem is that e.g. OSSC assumes that the overscan/border area would be the "ground truth" or zero level of what is supposed to be black, and the active image values are compared against that. So hence a cyan border (0 red, 255 green, and 255 blue) causes the ADC conversion to crush green and blue color channels.

In Catacomb 3D the border color flashes when the player is hit. Maybe that might cause a varying color degradation on OSSC that changes when the border changes? Might be interesting to test.

Looking at KEENFIX.ASM in the link, it seems to do the fix at least by shrinking the VGA border area to zero, causing the border color to vanish. That is one way to resolve the issue.

Reply 7 of 8, by willinliv

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Thanks very much for your help All, and apols on not returning sooner - I need to sort out my notification settings.

Video card is a FX 5900 - can't spot it in that table

I posted at the same time over at Videogamingperfection and it was also suggested to change the clamp/ALC-offset, I did this but for me on my setup I had to use a negative number (-8) and it has mostly fixed the issue I think with no other side effects: https://ibb.co/FqLkVGQj Thanks for the explanation on it and the link too. I don't notice any negatives so far in leaving an offset of -8 for other software. Nice to put all of this together and understand what has caused it in comparison to other EGA games.

Reply 8 of 8, by willinliv

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clb wrote on 2025-04-08, 19:04:

In Catacomb 3D the border color flashes when the player is hit. Maybe that might cause a varying color degradation on OSSC that changes when the border changes? Might be interesting to test.

Here's a recording of Catacomb3D with offset at zero (red tint) but I think the rest of the screen colours get changed anyway: https://youtu.be/CM3IzRKyboU
Hovertank also seems to be effected in same way when taking a hit, the colours seem to fade so I think this one is easier to see the effect (sorry no recording)