Here's the BIOS string in case it has any useful information?

Oh, forgot. "Hard drive" is a SanDISK 512MB CF card, I choose NTFS during install, but FAT didn't change it either.

Also tried 2 different optical drives. Now I'm using my most reliable IDE optical drive, an IOMEGA from June of 2000.

In my experience;

1. Don't use anything other than the NT4 installer to do the HD formatting.
2. If you're trying to install on a 4gb partition, reduce it to 2gb - obviously not relevant to your case.
3. NT4 can be sensitive to master/cable select settings. Try the opposite of whatever you've used so far.

YMMV!

You don't need to select " Standard PC" at the beginning of the install. The installer runs in Uni-processor mode during text setup, and the setup program will determine your configuration later in the installation process. But, I don't think that's your problem.

Just for kicks, you could try to use a DOS floppy to boot the computer, and then use the command prompt to start the installation. That will copy the NT setup files to your hard drive first. Here's the DOS command:

<CD Drive Letter>:\i386\winnt /w /b

I forgot to mention that your hard drive needs to be formatted to FAT to start a DOS installation. You can convert the format to NTFS later in the installation process if you want.

I recall having a very similar experience when I tried to install NT4 a while ago. For me, it was a network driver-related issue. Choosing not to set up networking on the second attempt gave me a bootable system, but when I tried installing a network driver later it crashed again in exactly the same way.

StevOnehundred wrote on 2025-04-12, 16:11:

In my experience; […]
Show full quote

In my experience;

1. Don't use anything other than the NT4 installer to do the HD formatting.
2. If you're trying to install on a 4gb partition, reduce it to 2gb - obviously not relevant to your case.
3. NT4 can be sensitive to master/cable select settings. Try the opposite of whatever you've used so far.

YMMV!

I did use the installer to format, and as if now, both CF Card and CD-ROM drive are jumpered as master on primary and secondary IDE respectively. Could CS maybe do a difference? Does IDE controllers of that age even support CS?

fosterwj03 wrote on 2025-04-12, 16:24:

You don't need to select " Standard PC" at the beginning of the install. The installer runs in Uni-processor mode during text setup, and the setup program will determine your configuration later in the installation process. But, I don't think that's your problem.

Just for kicks, you could try to use a DOS floppy to boot the computer, and then use the command prompt to start the installation. That will copy the NT setup files to your hard drive first. Here's the DOS command:

<CD Drive Letter>:\i386\winnt /w /b

I did try doing that, after posting here, albeit without the /w switch. I got a message that installation stopped to prevent corrupting long file names. Maybe that's because it was a Win98SE boot floppy? And maybe I had even done a sys c: but I'm not sure now. I might want to consider writing down my steps in order to re-trace them 🤣 will give it another try tomorrow.

sfryers wrote on 2025-04-12, 17:23:

I recall having a very similar experience when I tried to install NT4 a while ago. For me, it was a network driver-related issue. Choosing not to set up networking on the second attempt gave me a bootable system, but when I tried installing a network driver later it crashed again in exactly the same way.

I haven't installed a network card in the rig, as I'm not confident enough to set it up without being vulnerable to malware, so I'll just be moving the CF card around to load files.
But could it be an issue for NT not having an NIC in the rig?

FWIW, MS-DOS 6.22 installs without issues, but that's probably not very comparable ...?
But wow, HiMem testing extended memory takes its time with 64 MiB 🤣

H3nrik V! wrote on 2025-04-12, 20:31:

fosterwj03 wrote on 2025-04-12, 16:24:

You don't need to select " Standard PC" at the beginning of the install. The installer runs in Uni-processor mode during text setup, and the setup program will determine your configuration later in the installation process. But, I don't think that's your problem.

Just for kicks, you could try to use a DOS floppy to boot the computer, and then use the command prompt to start the installation. That will copy the NT setup files to your hard drive first. Here's the DOS command:

<CD Drive Letter>:\i386\winnt /w /b

I did try doing that, after posting here, albeit without the /w switch. I got a message that installation stopped to prevent corrupting long file names. Maybe that's because it was a Win98SE boot floppy? And maybe I had even done a sys c: but I'm not sure now. I might want to consider writing down my steps in order to re-trace them 🤣 will give it another try tomorrow.

You need the /W switch for Win9x formatted drives and when booting from a Win9x boot disk.

You don't need to sys the drive. The DOS-based installer for NT will create the boot sector on a bare drive.

This method would also rule out the optical drive as the problem.

fosterwj03 wrote on 2025-04-12, 20:41:

You need the /W switch for Win9x formatted drives and when booting from a Win9x boot disk. […]
Show full quote

H3nrik V! wrote on 2025-04-12, 20:31:

fosterwj03 wrote on 2025-04-12, 16:24:

You don't need to select " Standard PC" at the beginning of the install. The installer runs in Uni-processor mode during text setup, and the setup program will determine your configuration later in the installation process. But, I don't think that's your problem.

Just for kicks, you could try to use a DOS floppy to boot the computer, and then use the command prompt to start the installation. That will copy the NT setup files to your hard drive first. Here's the DOS command:

<CD Drive Letter>:\i386\winnt /w /b

I did try doing that, after posting here, albeit without the /w switch. I got a message that installation stopped to prevent corrupting long file names. Maybe that's because it was a Win98SE boot floppy? And maybe I had even done a sys c: but I'm not sure now. I might want to consider writing down my steps in order to re-trace them 🤣 will give it another try tomorrow.

You need the /W switch for Win9x formatted drives and when booting from a Win9x boot disk.

You don't need to sys the drive. The DOS-based installer for NT will create the boot sector on a bare drive.

This method would also rule out the optical drive as the problem.

Got it, I'll play around with that tomorrow, when the Sunday's chores are done 😀

H3nrik V! wrote on 2025-04-12, 20:34:

I haven't installed a network card in the rig, as I'm not confident enough to set it up without being vulnerable to malware, so I'll just be moving the CF card around to load files.
But could it be an issue for NT not having an NIC in the rig?

That's probably not the issue then. I'm sure there were plenty of NT machines without ethernet in 1996.

sfryers wrote on 2025-04-13, 10:02:

H3nrik V! wrote on 2025-04-12, 20:34:

I haven't installed a network card in the rig, as I'm not confident enough to set it up without being vulnerable to malware, so I'll just be moving the CF card around to load files.
But could it be an issue for NT not having an NIC in the rig?

That's probably not the issue then. I'm sure there were plenty of NT machines without ethernet in 1996.

I wonder if the issue is in NT's IDE/ATAPI driver since the hard drive and optical drive share the same cable in this case. Early ATAPI drivers weren't very tolerant to data bus traffic and timing issues. I wonder if slipstreaming the driver from Service Pack 3 or later (ATAPI.SYS) would fix the issue. But, that's a lot more trouble than performing the DOS-based procedure that would copy the files to the hard drive first (essentially a hard drive installation method). The DOS ATAPI driver is likely more tolerant, and the file transfer would likely complete successfully.

H3nrik V!: I don't think you should jumper the drives to Cable Select (CS). While CS has been part of the IDE standard from the beginning, most drives do not cooperate well with other drives. It would likely make your situation worse (if it worked at all). Also, I recommend you install Service Pack 6 soon after completing your NT4 installation which might solve your optical drive issue long-term (assuming that's the root cause).

fosterwj03 wrote on 2025-04-13, 14:19:

sfryers wrote on 2025-04-13, 10:02:

H3nrik V! wrote on 2025-04-12, 20:34:

I haven't installed a network card in the rig, as I'm not confident enough to set it up without being vulnerable to malware, so I'll just be moving the CF card around to load files.
But could it be an issue for NT not having an NIC in the rig?

That's probably not the issue then. I'm sure there were plenty of NT machines without ethernet in 1996.

I wonder if the issue is in NT's IDE/ATAPI driver since the hard drive and optical drive share the same cable in this case. Early ATAPI drivers weren't very tolerant to data bus traffic and timing issues. I wonder if slipstreaming the driver from Service Pack 3 or later (ATAPI.SYS) would fix the issue. But, that's a lot more trouble than performing the DOS-based procedure that would copy the files to the hard drive first (essentially a hard drive installation method). The DOS ATAPI driver is likely more tolerant, and the file transfer would likely complete successfully.

H3nrik V!: I don't think you should jumper the drives to Cable Select (CS). While CS has been part of the IDE standard from the beginning, most drives do not cooperate well with other drives. It would likely make your situation worse (if it worked at all). Also, I recommend you install Service Pack 6 soon after completing your NT4 installation which might solve your optical drive issue long-term (assuming that's the root cause).

They are masters on each cable, so no sharing there.

I am halfway through install from DOS, but it's having a time-out for now, as my "must reliable" IDE CD-ROM don't like being warm, so now a lot of files can't be read. (Unless it's related to Win98 boot disk's virtual drive, messing up drive letter assignments 🤔

The RAM drive shouldn't cause any issues. If you get really desparate, you could transfer the i386 folder to your compact flash card using a different computer, then run the DOS install from the C: drive.

fosterwj03 wrote on 2025-04-13, 18:51:

The RAM drive shouldn't cause any issues. If you get really desparate, you could transfer the i386 folder to your compact flash card using a different computer, then run the DOS install from the C: drive.

Would the i386 folder suffice? There could be enough room on the 512MB CF Card then ...

It's just that, the disk doesn't even spin up when I eject and put it back in, so I was wondering if the drive assignment for the virtual drive messed with that ...

Yes, the i386 folder is all you need.