My first thoughts were Dune II and Battlecruiser 3000.

In non-patches, there's also some localizations that are updates that do improve gameplay, like the not-currently-digitally-distributed US version of Realms of the Haunting adding difficulty options.

leileilol wrote on 2025-04-20, 14:05:

My first thoughts were Dune II and Battlecruiser 3000.

In non-patches, there's also some localizations that are updates that do improve gameplay, like the not-currently-digitally-distributed US version of Realms of the Haunting adding difficulty options.

What is broken in Dune 2 or do you mean the fix that you have sound and MT32 sound? Just wondering because I played it in the install version through at least 2 times in the past.

Battlecruiser had an odd reputation but good marketing campaigns if I remember correctly. Never played it.

Battlecruiser 3000 AD (the 1996 release) was indeed widely known to be broken upon release, as reported by reviewers and players alike. The freeware version comes patched to working condition, but very likely v2.0 is still a better option.

The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall had multiple patches and even more bugs, not everything was fixed with the latest official update. There's a separate official FIXSAVE utility that should repair known problems if/when the game messes up savegame files. I've never played the game without all possible fixes applied, but I think the non-patched version could get the player into softlocking the main quest because of some error or another. That, and there are frequent crashes and memory leaks of all sorts, partially fixed by switching to DOS/32A.

One may definitely say that the patches change Daggerfall a lot, although not everything is quite visible at the first glance. In the final update, you cannot join more than one temple, although I think in the release version you could be accepted into all eight simultaneously, and the same goes for knightly orders. On the other hand, you can use temple trainers even if not being a member, for an extra fee (3x the usual price, IIRC).

Elder Scrolls: Arena and Daggerfall were pretty buggy on release.

I think there was a game-breaking issue in one of the Ultima games? Can't recall which one.

I remembered a couple more examples of major changes introduced by patches/revisions.

Raix: Beyond the Void outright replaced several levels between v1.0 and v1.1, at least in the shareware version. Version 2.0 REMIX was an additional major overhaul, the most drastic change is that the player's craft does not move around endlessly by default, you can now stop and hover, which was only available with a cheat code in previous versions. The appearance of certain enemies was altered too, IIRC.

There are patches that upgrade both the shareware and the registered versions first from v1.0 to v1.1 and then from v1.1 to v2.0 REMIX.

Descent v1.4 introduced mid-level saves and also nerfed the first boss in level 7 (IIRC). However, I don't remember if there was a patch from v1.2 to v1.4 that made these changes, and also I'm not sure if there was any registered version of the game below v1.4. So the lack of the mid-level save option might be exclusive to early shareware versions only.

mombarak wrote on 2025-04-20, 14:16:

What is broken in Dune 2 or do you mean the fix that you have sound and MT32 sound? Just wondering because I played it in the install version through at least 2 times in the past.

The version of Dune II that I played back in the day never had the Atreides get a wormsign when a sandworm was active in the area.

At the time, we attributed that to part of the intended faction balancing, probably explained away as the Atreides being too naive w.r.t. the danger of the sandworm, or not willing to harm it or something.

But that doesn't really make sense if you take the actual books into account. And beside that, even if as a faction you wouldn't want to harm the worm, you would still like to get a warning, so you'd know to have your vehicles and troops steer clear of it.

Also, later at some point I remember playing back all the samples in the game's data files, and there was also a sample in there of the Atreides computer voice uttering the "wormsign" warning, even though she would never utter it in game, unlike her Harkonnen and Ordos counterparts.

So this may have been a bug in the game, that perhaps was fixed with a patch at some point. Or maybe they removed the wormsign warning from the Atreides faction after recording the sound assets, while balancing the factions during playtesting?

The game assets also included a sample of some kind of in-game unit (vehicle or trooper) uttering "come to papa" with a somewhat sadistic tone, even though I never heard that in-game either. Maybe the Ordos saboteur was supposed to utter it? Or maybe it was just an Easter egg... I mean, Frank Klepacki, the game's legendary music composer, was also a voice actor for that game. The Harkonnen computer voice was his, and I believe he lent his voice to the various in-game units as well, but I'm not sure about the latter. He obviously had a lot of fun recording those voice samples, so it wouldn't surprise me if he just said that line while being silly and they left it in, for some reason. 😁

Sorry for yet another not-entirely-on-topic tangent, by the way. 😇

digger wrote on 2025-04-22, 18:11:

The version of Dune II that I played back in the day never had the Atreides get a wormsign when a sandworm was active in the are […]
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The version of Dune II that I played back in the day never had the Atreides get a wormsign when a sandworm was active in the area.

At the time, we attributed that to part of the intended faction balancing, probably explained away as the Atreides being too naive w.r.t. the danger of the sandworm, or not willing to harm it or something.

But that doesn't really make sense if you take the actual books into account. And beside that, even if as a faction you wouldn't want to harm the worm, you would still like to get a warning, so you'd know to have your vehicles and troops steer clear of it.

Also, later at some point I remember playing back all the samples in the game's data files, and there was also a sample in there of the Atreides computer voice uttering the "wormsign" warning, even though she would never utter it in game, unlike her Harkonnen and Ordos counterparts.

So this may have been a bug in the game, that perhaps was fixed with a patch at some point. Or maybe they removed the wormsign warning from the Atreides faction after recording the sound assets, while balancing the factions during playtesting?

This behaviour is only found in the original US release, v1.0. The v1.07 patch fixes the problem. Sandworms are controlled by the Fremen player in all missions, and since the Fremen are allied to the Atreides, they did not get any warnings.

A long while ago me and other Dune II lovers compiled a list of changes made by the 1.07 patch.

digger wrote on 2025-04-22, 18:11:

The game assets also included a sample of some kind of in-game unit (vehicle or trooper) uttering "come to papa" with a somewhat sadistic tone, even though I never heard that in-game either.

IIRC, there are two unused voice clips, the other being "Something's under the sand!" said in regular unit voice. I don't think there is any code in the game that would suggest what situations these could've been used in.

You might also know there's an unused type of sand mound that spawns Ordos Raiders (or Trikes). The game manual still contains a reference to mounds that could contain surprises, much like crates in multiplayer/skirmish mode in later Command & Conquer titles.

MrFlibble wrote on 2025-04-23, 19:56:

This behaviour is only found in the original US release, v1.0. The v1.07 patch fixes the problem. Sandworms are controlled by the Fremen player in all missions, and since the Fremen are allied to the Atreides, they did not get any warnings.

That would make sense, since the edition of which I played a copy as a kid had the title "Dune II: The Building of a Dynasty" in the intro (also narrated by the voice-over in the intro), as opposed to "Dune II: Battle for Arrakis", so it was the (apparently unpatched) US version.

A long while ago me and other Dune II lovers compiled a list of changes made by the 1.07 patch.

Thanks for that link! Decades later, that DOS game continues to have a very special place in my heart too. ❤️

IIRC, there are two unused voice clips, the other being "Something's under the sand!" said in regular unit voice. I don't think there is any code in the game that would suggest what situations these could've been used in.

You might also know there's an unused type of sand mound that spawns Ordos Raiders (or Trikes). The game manual still contains a reference to mounds that could contain surprises, much like crates in multiplayer/skirmish mode in later Command & Conquer titles.

I love how I continue learning new secrets about that game. For instance, until now, I didn't even know that some of the sandworms in the game were controlled by the Fremen! (Makes total sense if you read the books, of course.) Thanks! 😄

It would be cool to have some kind of fan-made patch or mission/expansion pack that would put those unused samples to use in-game somehow.