VOGONS


Lost Joker 2 - image shifted to the right

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First post, by 3dfx_fan

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I have Lost Joker 2 (3dfx Voodoo 3 + PowerVR PCX2) with digital (DVI/HDMI) but the image is shifted slightly to the right side when using digital (DVI/HDMI) output. Is there a way to move it back slightly to the left to center it when I am using digital (DVI/HDMI) output (by editing Voodoo3.inf driver file)? I have no knowledge of that how to do this (edit correctly Voodoo3.inf driver file). Can someone here help?

Reply 1 of 20, by 3dfx_fan

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I am using Eizo FlexScan S2134 and the problem exists in all resolutions.

Reply 2 of 20, by sdz

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This sound similar to the issue I experienced on the V4 MXM:
Re: Voodoo 4 M4800
This happens even on regular V4/V5 DVI cards, but only under XP (tried every driver I could). Under W98 the image isn't shifted.
I also made a V3 MXM card, but it hasn't any image shift under XP. I haven't tried W98 yet.
What OS are you using?

Reply 3 of 20, by 3dfx_fan

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Windows ME

Reply 4 of 20, by 3dfx_fan

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It is the same issue: the image is shifted to the right probably about 4 pixels (about 4 pixel gap on the left side).
But in my case it is Voodoo 3 and Windows 9x.
Is there any fix or will I have to live with it?

Reply 5 of 20, by 3dfx_fan

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Also why my display was not being detected at first and Windows used "default monitor" driver (and I couldn't use resolutions higher than 640x480) and I had to select manually 1600x1200 monitor driver (and then I could use resolutions higher than 640x480)? Should my display be detected "automatically" after installing Voodoo 3 driver (and restart)?

Reply 6 of 20, by havli

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I have no experience with digital output on Voodoo3. But the default monitor issue is considered normal behavior for all V3 cards as far as I remember.

HW museum.cz - my collection of PC hardware

Reply 7 of 20, by sdz

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I just checked the FPGA code on the V3 card, I was wrong earlier. I was actually applying the fix for the shifted image. So it appears that the V3 digital output under ME/XP has the same issue as the V4/5 digital output under XP (but not 98).

At the moment I'm not aware of any software fix for this, but it might be possible, seeing how the Napalm cards behave differently depending on the OS.

As for the default monitor thing, I have no clue. Under XP it works fine. Also, this is pretty much uncharted territory, as 3dfx never launched V3 cards with DVI support.

Reply 8 of 20, by 3dfx_fan

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So why is Voodoo 4/5 special under Windows 9x not to have this issue?

Reply 9 of 20, by sdz

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Most likely some VSA internal registers are set differently. Why exactly that differs depending of the OS, I have no clue at the moment.

Reply 10 of 20, by 3dfx_fan

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havli wrote on 2025-04-24, 08:09:

I have no experience with digital output on Voodoo3. But the default monitor issue is considered normal behavior for all V3 cards as far as I remember.

After further investigation this does not (fully) apply in my case. Original Voodoo 3 was only analog out (TV models had DVI looking port but AFAIK it was not DVI and was not digital and there were engeeniring samples with DFP port but I don't know much about them) and did not have DVI. When I use VGA the monitor gets detected and identified as S2134. Only when using DVI/HDMI default monitor thing happens. So this does not fully apply in my case.
I tried exporting/creating S2134.inf using PowerStrip when Voodoo 3 was connected with VGA and then installing it when using DVI but I got "DVI signal error" from monitor (don't know if I done it correctly; I did this and use PowerStrip for first time; don't know if I have to place this S2134.inf file in special directory or/and edit it or/and add something to it).
Does this that monitor gets detected when using VGA changes anything and opens a possibility for a fix when using DVI?

sdz wrote on 2025-04-24, 12:16:

Most likely some VSA internal registers are set differently. Why exactly that differs depending of the OS, I have no clue at the moment.

I wonder about Voodoo 4/5 thing. Maybe Windows 98 detected the monitor correctly with digital output and that is why everything was ok and Windows XP did not detect monitor correctly and used default monitor and that resulted in this shifting to right problem? Did you use the same exact setup (PC and monitor) with both OSes when testing digital output on Voodoo 4/5?

Reply 11 of 20, by sdz

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The monitor is detected correctly on XP and 98 when using DVI on V4/V5 cards.
And yes, I tried on the same PC and monitor and different monitors.
If I recall correctly, on Avenger/Napalm there are registers for exactly this, delaying the blanking signal, for TV encoders. The digital RGB bus on VSAs is used for TV encoders as well as TMDS encoders. It could be possible that the XP drivers just wrongly set those registers. Dumping those registers under 98 and XP and comparing would be nice, but I have a strong feeling that those registers can't actually be dumped from userspace.

Reply 12 of 20, by 3dfx_fan

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I am pretty disappointed that the digital signal from 3dfx Voodoo 3 (Lost Joker 2) is shifted to the right and I get a black gap on the left (by about 4 pixels) in all resolutions (in Windows 9x) and by the fact that this can't be fixed. I really hoped for more throughly tested product that will deliver perfectly centered digital image output through DVI/HDMI.

Reply 13 of 20, by sdz

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It's very likely that it can be fixed, but it's probably not a trivial task. As far as I know, none of the persons who developed custom drivers for these cards are active in the 3dfx scene.
As for thoroughly testing... even 3dfx shipped V3/V4 cards that have that offset under 2000/XP. And they made the ICs and drivers.
Have you contacted the author of the card? Maybe there's some fix available.

Reply 14 of 20, by 3dfx_fan

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sdz wrote on 2025-04-25, 18:18:

It's very likely that it can be fixed, but it's probably not a trivial task. As far as I know, none of the persons who developed custom drivers for these cards are active in the 3dfx scene.
As for thoroughly testing... even 3dfx shipped V3/V4 cards that have that offset under 2000/XP. And they made the ICs and drivers.
Have you contacted the author of the card? Maybe there's some fix available.

I contacted the card’s author, but he wasn’t very helpful. He provided assistance only once at the start. Initially, I noticed that some resolutions weren’t working, so I asked for guidance. He advised me to copy the timing settings from the Voodoo 4/5 Windows 2000 driver, which I did, and it resolved the issue. However, one resolution, 1280x960, still didn’t work correctly, so I followed up about it. His response was odd — he asked, “Why do you even need it?” and claimed it was a “non-standard resolution” that “probably won’t work on any 3dfx card.” To me, 1280x960 is a perfectly standard resolution. Fortunately, I found a solution on this forum and implemented it myself.
Later, he insisted that the “image shifting to the right” issue was due to my display not being detected properly, claiming it was my responsibility to figure out why. He stated that his monitors always get detected correctly. To test this, I retrieved an Eizo FlexScan EV2456 from my basement and connected it via DVI. The monitor was detected perfectly, but it made no difference — the image was still shifted to the right across all resolutions. This proved his theory about no monitor detection causing the issue was incorrect.
His only solution now is for me to return the card for a refund, with no plans for improvements or new drivers. The search for a 3dfx Voodoo card with perfectly centered digital output under Windows 9x (on Eizo FlexScan S2134) continues.
In my opinion, the Voodoo 3 is a poor choice. The Voodoo 4/5 seem more promising. Your Voodoo 2 HDMI add-on and HDMI-modified Voodoo 1s are very intriguing (though I’d need to use a slower PC for the latter). If only there was a way to buy or make them!

Reply 15 of 20, by anthony

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Look, man, you're blaming me for 3dfx drivers bugs.

Send me the card and i'll make a refund. No reason for drama here.

Reply 16 of 20, by sdz

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1280x960 doesn't work even on regular V4/V5 cards via DVI output. How did you get it working on the V3?
I'm not selling the V1 cards (1 or 2 TMUs) with HDMI, but I published everything that's needed to make one, or even make your own changes.
The V2 HDMI add-on works fine, but I haven't published the files yet, as I want to make another hardware revision to make it cheaper and to make the process of updating the firmware possible without the need of an expensive JTAG (all that would be needed is a type C USB cable).

Reply 17 of 20, by 3dfx_fan

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sdz wrote on 2025-04-26, 04:39:

1280x960 doesn't work even on regular V4/V5 cards via DVI output. How did you get it working on the V3?
I'm not selling the V1 cards (1 or 2 TMUs) with HDMI, but I published everything that's needed to make one, or even make your own changes.
The V2 HDMI add-on works fine, but I haven't published the files yet, as I want to make another hardware revision to make it cheaper and to make the process of updating the firmware possible without the need of an expensive JTAG (all that would be needed is a type C USB cable).

Here is a fix for 1280x960:
Re: The Changeling 3dfx Voodoo 5 5500
The timings for 85Hz are ok and they are as follows:
"1728,1344,1504,1011,961,964,0,148500000,8500,8,30870".
And based on this you have to edit and correct 60Hz timings because 60Hz timings are wrong. New and working 60Hz timings:
"1728,1344,1504,1011,961,964,0,104820000,6000,8,24002".
All the credit goes to the user Dolenc (Dolenc). He was able to add more non-standard/widescreen resolutions.

Reply 18 of 20, by 3dfx_fan

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Is 4440H only compatible with Glide?
Is 4400H compatible with all APIs?

Reply 19 of 20, by sdz

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Thanks for the 1280x960 timings! I will try them on V3/V4/V5 cards and report back.
Yes, the timings provided by Dolenc are awesome. I still wonder how the 1920x1080 timings came to be. Changing literally anything there completely breaks it.

You are correct. The 4440H is currently Glide only. I will look into getting D3D working, but it's not a high priority right now. The 4400H is compatible with all APIs.