Jo22 wrote on 2025-04-24, 15:48:

^Linux. Wayland. Pulse Audio. Shudder! 🫨

Wayland is awful. All kinds of bad there with fullscreen modes. Stick with an x11 distro, like xubuntu.

Pulse audio by itself is not a problem.

Pypewire based pulse audio, routed through a slow as sin python subsystem? AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL.

Again, xubuntu not affected.

Ignore the bullshit rantings of Lennart Poettering an the python fanbois. Stick with older and superior offerings.

My future Linux migration plan's a xfce4 Debian, but the whole root filesystem isn't something a linux distro can fix. I dread this inevitablity and wish Microsoft didn't shoot itself in the foot so hard since 7.

also lmao the .desktop shortcut launcher system, the difficulty of manually making them for everything you have and then the restrictive permissions required to populate your own application menu and you don't always have an appropriate icon available either. xD hahaha linux so ez. Is this for 'don't copy windows' reasons?

Also notice how many 'easy' packages (i.e. 'just get the flatpak') only really focus for x86_64?

Jo22 wrote on 2025-04-24, 07:17:

I find the lack of minimum requirements highly unprofessional.
But given the actual events , I think it's not surprising. Things get quite anti-social, anyway.

I find society very toxic. Not sure how much social media added to the toxicity. Insufferable people are everywhere, people with fucked up views screwing others over in various ways thinking it's fine etc. More and more often I get the thought it would be the best if big object from outer space blasted the Earth into the Sun.

leileilol wrote on 2025-04-24, 16:08:

My future Linux migration plan's a xfce4 Debian, but the whole root filesystem isn't something a linux distro can fix. I dread this inevitablity and wish Microsoft didn't shoot itself in the foot so hard since 7.

also lmao the .desktop shortcut launcher system, the difficulty of manually making them for everything you have and then the restrictive permissions required to populate your own application menu and you don't always have an appropriate icon available either. xD hahaha linux so ez. Is this for 'don't copy windows' reasons?

Also notice how many 'easy' packages (i.e. 'just get the flatpak') only really focus for x86_64?

I haven't had too much problem with making "desktop files" from scratch but it is very tedious having to remove the icon-cache and forcefully regenerate it entirely every single time I manually populate icons for a particular class. Xfce's default menu does acknowledge desktop files in your $HOME/.local/share/applications/ directory immedietly and you don't have to shove it all into /usr/share/applications/ instead, but getting your icons to work correctly is not as fire and forget and I don't understand why it's been this long and it's still not fire and forget.

Anytime I throw a font into $HOME/.local/share/fonts/ fontconfig immediately springs into action and the font is usable without having to restart everything. But icons? No I have to purge the icon cache and rebuild it from scratch.

I do wish there was a program to view what a Windows .lnk file is doing, but I've been mostly working around that deficit by throwing it into "strings".

While Wayland isn't perfect, X11 really shows it's age with some stuff.

It does, but it also doesnt make assumptions about tear-free and refresh rate in fullscreen modes without your permission or control, like Wayland does.

leileilol wrote on 2025-04-24, 16:08:

My future Linux migration plan's a xfce4 Debian, but the whole root filesystem isn't something a linux distro can fix. I dread this inevitablity and wish Microsoft didn't shoot itself in the foot so hard since 7.

How 'bout just giving up on computers instead? I've had some Linux loaded for over a decade on my computer, but just don't see myself using it as a daily driver. Too many things wrong, outside of using it for specific tasks, just don't like Linux way of doing things in general. Prefer Windows mouse feel, font rendering (very important for my eyes, need ClearType with a bit bumped up contrast to avoid strain and pain), Aero Glass (actually like 3rd party implementations on Win8+ better for tweakability), System Informer, Device Manager...

Even banal things bug me on Linux, eg. the only browser I can tolerate is Pale Moon and it's more sluggish there plus UI looks off, lots of padding on menu bar. GTK3 version gives you oversized search bar (maybe URL bar too, forgot) as a bonus. KeePass on Mono...yikes! KeePassXC, again with the oversized GUI elements.

And there's always something broken that you take for granted as working on Windows. I still haven't forgotten the atrocity that was the fglrx. And with NVIDIA, you just get problems in other areas. KDE's compositor performance was abysmal last time I checked. Then you replace it with something else, which you'll likely struggle to configure right. On my install, I always have this rectangle around circle with arrows that shows for auto scrolling on middle click in Pale Moon. VirtualBox for some reason has this dark overlay on my end in fullscreen mode...

Jo22 wrote on 2025-04-24, 15:48:

^Linux. Wayland. Pulse Audio. Shudder! 🫨

PipeWire has mostly replaced PulseAudio on modern distros these days and works much beter. This transition has been remarkably smooth and painless, especially compared to the debacle that was the initial adoption of PulseAudio by Ubuntu, years back.

To get back on topic, I do believe that the actual versions of windows that work with the software should be listed. It's not like it's hard to find old machines to test with.

Or perhaps there's virtual sites that let you upload your software to see what happens? Obviously the instance would be deleted when you're finished.

A good example would be 7zip, which lists the versions, because the software works all the way back to W2K (which I can confirm).

I found another site that said its software only works with the latest fully-patched windows 11, so of course I skipped that one, not having win11.

But just saying "windows" is bad practice and lazy.

The only way you'll see this change is in spite of not because of.
A feature in code repositories that would scan code their code as well as any dependencies introduced and report on APIs not supported on whichever OS and recommendations to fix.
The same would need to apply to the code repositories for the compilers and their dependencies as well.
At the bare minimum it would mark releases as whatever OS is supported if the dev doesn't want to fix their code.
For when the code isn't available a program like Dependency Walker except explicitly geared for finding OS compatibility issues would be nice. I used one back in the day that would scan for old APIs used.

Why isn't this already a thing? As far as most are concerned if you aren't running the latest OS then you're wrong.
If you are running an old game or app then you're wrong. Run the latest or a similar game. Why are you using that old program anyway?
Running closed source? Wrong use open source.

It's always about the new shiny, there is no money or time for old things.

It's hard for streaming services.
I own exactly 2 games on steam, both run on Windows 7 but steam no longer supports this.
So what should I put as the required OS? The Steam client's or Windows 7 then have to support the workarounds to get the game working on older OS's.

Even GOG system requirements are "wrong" in that its often listing DOSBox not the actual games requirements.

I remember during Win95/98 era games would simply list "Windows" to cover both OS versions.
So history is repeating, as at this point in time "Windows" will most likely mean Win10/11

There is hope with XP and Onecore API. It is homebrew but promising. At least the latest Cromium installs and runs perfectly.

And Windows 7 has VxKex that is somehow less mature product.

So at least we may well be returning to Windows XP for our modern computing needs. 😏

digger wrote on 2025-04-23, 08:11:

Or better still, run it on Linux with Wine or Proton, since that often has better support for older Windows games than modern versions of Windows do. 🙂

Funnily enough, I actually had to do this for a piece of software I'm half responsible for (the other half being all the Godot Engine contributors over the last 15 years). GE4 requires Windows 7, but my i5-2400 testing box that I use as a baseline of 90% of people that'd be playing the game being tested has a dual-boot of Ubuntu 18 and Windows Vista. So I had to run the game in WINE because the Ubuntu 18 install didn't have a new enough glibc for the native version and Vista wasn't new enough because the engine demands Windows 7.

Cyberdyne wrote on 2025-04-29, 10:22:

There is hope with XP and Onecore API. It is homebrew but promising. At least the latest Cromium installs and runs perfectly.

And Windows 7 has VxKex that is somehow less mature product.

So at least we may well be returning to Windows XP for our modern computing needs. 😏

Very interesting. Link please.

cyclone3d wrote on 2025-04-29, 13:28:

Cyberdyne wrote on 2025-04-29, 10:22:

There is hope with XP and Onecore API. It is homebrew but promising. At least the latest Cromium installs and runs perfectly.

And Windows 7 has VxKex that is somehow less mature product.

So at least we may well be returning to Windows XP for our modern computing needs. 😏

Very interesting. Link please.

Hi, I doubt direct links aren in line with the rules, though, since these are hacks essentially. 🙁

Anyway, these things do really work, I checked myself.

Just look yourself for KernelEx (Win 9x), One Core API (Win XP), Extended Kernel for Windows Vista (Win Vista) or VxKex (Win 7).

On XP, the One Core API allows running modern Python 3.6 or 3.8 runtime, Ren'Py games, RPG Maker games and emulators. And more.

It also adds partial compatibility with DirectX 10/11.
I can play most 32-Bit Win32 indie games from itch.io that way.

My PC is a Mac Pro (Xenon CPUs) which has a GeForce 8800 GT, I think. And the last XP drivers.

But again, this is just for fun, for hobby use. For lovers of old OSes..
I wouldn't recommend this as a daily driver or something.

Legal disclaimer: I might like to add that I do own several physical copies of those Windows versions (with COA stickers).
So I'm technically borrowing system files of Windows versions I do have previously paid for.

Edit: Typos fixed.

Will not provide links but they both are available at Github and are actively developed.

cyclone3d wrote on 2025-04-29, 13:28:

Cyberdyne wrote on 2025-04-29, 10:22:

There is hope with XP and Onecore API. It is homebrew but promising. At least the latest Cromium installs and runs perfectly.

And Windows 7 has VxKex that is somehow less mature product.

So at least we may well be returning to Windows XP for our modern computing needs. 😏

Very interesting. Link please.

The mentions of these projects piqued my interest too, and a search yielded the following GitHub projects:

• REMOVED
• REMOVED
• REMOVED

(Sorry, I posted the links before I saw other people replying that the legality of these projects was questionable. So I removed them.)

I know that Vulkan works on Windows 7. I wonder if vkd3d-proton could be ported to Windows 7, so that Direct3D 12 could be made to work on it. (Perhaps such a project already exists somewhere?)

No need for the full proton stack if all you want are D3D10 and D3D11. For those, you just want DXVK.

https://github.com/doitsujin/dxvk

VKD3D-PROTON is a seperate project that uses the same APIs, and provides D3D12.
https://github.com/HansKristian-Work/vkd3d-proton

IIRC, both can work in actual windows.

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/dx … windows.315239/

Jo22 wrote on 2025-04-29, 14:49:

Just look yourself for KernelEx (Win 9x), One Core API (Win XP), Extended Kernel for Windows Vista (Win Vista) or VxKex (Win 7).

How does KeePass 2 work? One of the first things I noticed with these kernel extensions , at least for Win 9x and XP, they broke KeePass, one of the most backwards compatible applications (try ZIP version, installer uses modern Inno Setup, so only launches on Win7+).

I got Cal of Duty: Modern Warfare Remastered to launch on Vista with extended kernel, but at the same time it broke GPU hardware acceleration in 360Chrome 13.5 (Chromium 86).

Seems very fragile and introduces new bugs that don't exist in original OS files.