Hi Robert,

I'm a big fan of trying to re-use stuff, so I really like your ideas here.
Personally, I have not tried to set up a shared network printer or HDD using one of these, though the idea has passed through my mind before . Wouldn't mind trying it someday, though probably under the instructions of someone else who's already done it perhaps (my networking knowledge is more on the basic side). On the other hand, I do have several old ADSL modems with a built-in router (and wireless too) which I did try setting up as a temporary switch a few times, and that has indeed worked fine. I also used one of these recently to test the new Ethernet cabling inside a new apartment for a family friend. The few Ethernet cable runs I terminated were fine, but the ones that the installers did actually had issues - the wired connection was constantly dropping between the two routers. It turned out to be an issue with the shielding of the cat5e cables - basically the installers stripped too much of it too far back from the wall jacks, and that was causing signal ringing and dropout issues. Fixed that on both cables by re-terminating them and then my "routers" had no problem communicating to each other afterwards.
So I suppose one can go quite far to find various ways to reuse old equipment when needed. In my case, I probably could have done the same fault-finding with professional equipment / Ethernet line testers... but I don't have any. On the other hand, the ADSL modems (with built-in routers) were freebies that I found in people's trash. A bit more cumbersome to carry around for these types of jobs, but they were free after all. If I ever need to do this as a profession, of course I'd get the right tools. But for the occasional work, these ADSL modems were just fine.

I often reuse old high-performance - for the time - Gigabit routers as switches, but your mileage will vary, depending on the config choices in the stock firmware, though you can often get what you want from installing one of the non-manufacturer software packages.

Oh your talking ADSL era equipment, bit less exciting than dial up but probably more useful.

I have 1 or 2 wireless routers, useful for setting up a quick retro network that doesn't require internet connectivity.
Typically the retro PC's use ethernet cable and a laptop can connect via wifi and transfer files when needed.

Another option is to add a device to wifi that lacks any wifi card. Instead have a wireless router (Linksys is a commonly used brand) connect to your existing wireless network and connect to your retro PC via Ethernet.
Can see this been a very elegant setup for earlier retro PC's but haven't had the need myself yet.

Well I got around to testing the idea of a network-enabled hard drive - I can say it doesn't work - or at least I couldn't get it to work. The problem is pretty simple, both the hard drive and the modem have square USB ports, and I don't have any cables with the proper plugs at both ends. So that ended that.

None of the 4-port routers has a USB port at all.

Only the latest gateways have a rectangular USB port, and I already tested it out by plugging in a normal USB thumb drive - it works, making the thumb drive available as a pseudo-NAS to all connected computers.

These early DSL modems with a USB port are, well... just modems. They require drivers and expose your PC to the internet similar to a dial-up or ISDN modem (no NAT or any other networking/routing functionality). So nothing will work on that USB port.

The more advanced devices can have some use today as a network switch, access point or repeater. Potential issues:
-the firmware is locked/limited and doesn't give you all configuration options
-most but the latest will be 100Mbps
-(for wireless) earlier ones support up to WPA, which is not allowed anymore by contemporary devices
-(subjective and depends on how one lives) aesthetics and a big phone company logo might be an issue outside of the retro computing area

ADSL modems need DSLAM to establish a link. Big expensive hot and lout telco grade boxes. There were some people playing with idea of implementing VDSL/ADSL in gnuradio, but I havent seen anything come out of it. TLDR: recycling bin 🙁

Yes, so the end result is that I can throw out 3 single-port modems (with square USB port); and one 8-port 10mbit hub.

But I'll keep the 4 4-port ADSL gateways and use them as 4-port switches, because I know that works, and 100mbit is better than nothing, especially when it's free.

And I get to keep all the spare wall warts.

There was an old professional grade ADSL router being disposed of at work. It's now in use at home as a gigabit switch and wireless access point. Has been doing its job 6 or 7 years now - not bad for dumpster fodder.

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2024-11-19, 17:29:

I often reuse old high-performance - for the time - Gigabit routers as switches, but your mileage will vary, depending on the config choices in the stock firmware, though you can often get what you want from installing one of the non-manufacturer software packages.

Be aware that this could be false economy. Routers generally consume a lot more power than switches, which adds up with devices that are on 24/7. An EUR 12 unmaanged Gb switch uses about 2W of power. A router from 10-15 years ago tends to use closer to 8W. That is a delta of 6W. How much that costs depends on where you live and where you get your electricity from, but for me 6W would (after adding all taxes etc) cost about EUR 15. So getting that cheapest modern Gb switch would be cheaper within a year for me. Even at average US prices (16c per kWh), it would cost over USD 8 per year, so that cheapest switch would pay for itself within 18 months. Only situation where the old router would be cheaper in the long run is if you generate most or all of your power yourself (wind, solar, hydro etc) and have a surplus you need to burn.

Robbbert wrote on 2024-11-24, 12:10:

Yes, so the end result is that I can throw out 3 single-port modems (with square USB port); and one 8-port 10mbit hub.

If you do electronics repairs regularly, then it might be worthwhile to open them to see what parts they have inside.
It's mostly rare, but I've seen motherboards with damaged ethernet port circuitry due to lightning strike, including the isolator transformer. So at the very least, I'd pull those, just to have a few.
Ceramic caps are also always a welcome addition to my parts bins, even though I have boxes and boxes of scrap stuff already.
The best, however, are the Y1X1 ceramic caps - good for filling up those cheapo gutless ATX PSUs that aren't actually that bad, but only lack an input filter and a few other parts to be made decent.

dionb wrote on 2024-11-24, 18:54:

Be aware that this could be false economy. Routers generally consume a lot more power than switches, which adds up with devices that are on 24/7. An EUR 12 unmaanged Gb switch uses about 2W of power. A router from 10-15 years ago tends to use closer to 8W. That is a delta of 6W. How much that costs depends on where you live and where you get your electricity from, but for me 6W would (after adding all taxes etc) cost about EUR 15. So getting that cheapest modern Gb switch would be cheaper within a year for me. Even at average US prices (16c per kWh), it would cost over USD 8 per year, so that cheapest switch would pay for itself within 18 months. Only situation where the old router would be cheaper in the long run is if you generate most or all of your power yourself (wind, solar, hydro etc) and have a surplus you need to burn.

... or, if you live in a cold[er] climate and use electricity to at least partially heat up some parts of your home. In that case, any electric heat-generating device is a welcome addition. In the house where I lived before, I actually intentionally installed "oldschool" "low efficiency" (40 Watt) incandescent bulbs in the light fixture of my computer room / bedroom, and regularly left these turned On from 5 PM till bed time in the winter months. Also did the same with a desktop or two. It kept the room nice and cozy at around 19C, while allowing me to lower the thermostat for the rest of the house down to 16-17C. So this actually saved on heating costs, as I only heated the room where I was most of the time.

So yeah, depending on where you live and if you use electricity for heating, then having / leaving some "inefficient" electronic devices turned on is not necessarily a waste of energy or money.

momaka wrote on 2025-01-14, 22:17:

or, if you live in a cold[er] climate and use electricity to at least partially heat up some parts of your home. In that case, any electric heat-generating device is a welcome addition. In the house where I lived before, I actually intentionally installed "oldschool" "low efficiency" (40 Watt) incandescent bulbs in the light fixture of my computer room / bedroom, and regularly left these turned On from 5 PM till bed time in the winter months. Also did the same with a desktop or two. It kept the room nice and cozy at around 19C, while allowing me to lower the thermostat for the rest of the house down to 16-17C. So this actually saved on heating costs, as I only heated the room where I was most of the time.

So yeah, depending on where you live and if you use electricity for heating, then having / leaving some "inefficient" electronic devices turned on is not necessarily a waste of energy or money.

This is how I think.
During lockdown I had an old dual CPU workstation just playing all my mp3's that stopped around 2009. Made for nice nostalgic background noise while working.
Also meant we could turn the heating completely off in what became the office.
Didn't see the point in using something more efficient to then just go and pay to run something else to heat the room.
Instead I had a fun using a fancy XP system and got the heat for "free"

If the switch-capable boxes have wifi, they might do job as repeaters.

Or throw storage at them.
I already got that they don't have USB hosts in them, only clients. Butr network linked storage might work.
Depending on the exact models, perhaps they could even run some embedded Linux and become homeservers. They will run some sort of firmware, so perhaps someone out there has already written some homebrew stuff.
Or you could set up weird network topologies. I vaguely remember stuff from a course I had in the late 90s/early 2000s. Ring networks, star networks, mesh networks....

momaka wrote on 2025-01-14, 22:17:

... or, if you live in a cold[er] climate and use electricity to at least partially heat up some parts of your home. In that case, any electric heat-generating device is a welcome addition. In the house where I lived before, I actually intentionally installed "oldschool" "low efficiency" (40 Watt) incandescent bulbs in the light fixture of my computer room / bedroom, and regularly left these turned On from 5 PM till bed time in the winter months. Also did the same with a desktop or two. It kept the room nice and cozy at around 19C, while allowing me to lower the thermostat for the rest of the house down to 16-17C. So this actually saved on heating costs, as I only heated the room where I was most of the time.

So yeah, depending on where you live and if you use electricity for heating, then having / leaving some "inefficient" electronic devices turned on is not necessarily a waste of energy or money.

Maybe, maybe not. Think about electricity cost. Right now I'm sitting here in a 16°C room, right next to two machines, one running incredibly long-winded DOSBox benchmarks, the other streaming 4K video and setting up an Android VM. And both have been at it for the better part of the day.
They need to be incredibly inefficient, and thus costly, to give off enough heat. And they better do that while doing anything useful to you. Sure, I could just crunch prime95 and furmark 24/7 but that would help nobody.

lordmogul wrote on 2025-01-18, 01:10:

Maybe, maybe not. Think about electricity cost. Right now I'm sitting here in a 16°C room, right next to two machines, one running incredibly long-winded DOSBox benchmarks, the other streaming 4K video and setting up an Android VM. And both have been at it for the better part of the day.
They need to be incredibly inefficient, and thus costly, to give off enough heat. And they better do that while doing anything useful to you. Sure, I could just crunch prime95 and furmark 24/7 but that would help nobody.

Well, it does depend indeed... but like I said, if you are already using electricity for heating, then it makes no difference whether the heat comes from an inefficient PC (or two) or from a heater. I suppose you could argue that some electric heating systems are more efficient than others - i.e. heat pumps and A/C units that can work in reverse (a popular option here in Europe) compared to a purely resistive heating device (i.e. radiators, blowers, and etc.) The thing is, both heat pumps and A/C units in reverse start to get rather inefficient when the outside temperatures get and stay below freezing for too long. So most electric heating systems do still have heating through resistive elements. In any case, when it's cold, those "inefficient" electric device's power consumption will certainly not "go to waste" when used inside the home.

As for how much is needed to keep a room cozier - my experience is that, if home has decent insulation, an "inefficient PC" like a Pentium 4 Prescott (around 70 Watts draw from the wall at idle) and two 40 Watt incandescent bulbs left turned on for about 4-5 hours a day, will allow a medium-sized office room (around 4x4 meters) to stay a few degrees above the average room temperature in the rest of the home... which for me is enough.
With that said, when those cooler months roll through and I start leaving one or two of my PCs on throughout the day to keep my room warmer, the few extra Watts of power use from something like crappy old modem won't make almost any noticeable dent in the electric bill.

lordmogul wrote on 2025-01-18, 01:10:

Sure, I could just crunch prime95 and furmark 24/7 but that would help nobody.

Or you could run something like Folding@Home or World Community Grid and help save lives while heating your space 😀

debs3759 wrote on 2025-01-28, 19:04:

lordmogul wrote on 2025-01-18, 01:10:

Sure, I could just crunch prime95 and furmark 24/7 but that would help nobody.

Or you could run something like Folding@Home or World Community Grid and help save lives while heating your space 😀

how well are the XP clients for that these days? And do they even work with SM3 GPUs and pre SSE4 CPUs?
Oh, and without networking obviously.

lordmogul wrote on 2025-02-13, 06:34:

debs3759 wrote on 2025-01-28, 19:04:

lordmogul wrote on 2025-01-18, 01:10:

Sure, I could just crunch prime95 and furmark 24/7 but that would help nobody.

Or you could run something like Folding@Home or World Community Grid and help save lives while heating your space 😀

how well are the XP clients for that these days? And do they even work with SM3 GPUs and pre SSE4 CPUs?

Good point.
Trying to "contribute" to F@H or WCG with some old retro PC that can easily be outclassed even by the slowest embedded Atom SoC on the market today... well, it's kinda pointless IMO.

lordmogul wrote on 2025-02-13, 06:34:

Oh, and without networking obviously.

Why, because a WinXP machine will infect the world and then explode if you connect it to a network?
That's a load of crap and I can't believe people still believe it.
Yes, there are many things that make XP's network stack much more unsafe... but a home XP SP3 box sitting behind a router with a firewall enabled is just as unlikely to get infected as would be a Windows 7 or 10 machine.

Now, if you take an XP (or even Win7) machine and connect it straight to a modem that exposes its networks stack directly to the outside world, that's a different story. I went through that back in the early 2000's when we were some of the first neighborhoods to get fast cable internet... and yeah, it didn't end well for our house PC. But on the plus side, I learned a lot about the inner workings of XP and particularly how to clean it up from malware (both manually and with help of AV/anti-malware tools.)

lordmogul wrote on 2025-02-13, 06:34:

Oh, and without networking obviously.

Why, because a WinXP machine will infect the world and then explode if you connect it to a network?
That's a load of crap and I can't believe people still believe it.
Yes, there are many things that make XP's network stack much more unsafe... but a home XP SP3 box sitting behind a router with a firewall enabled is just as unlikely to get infected as would be a Windows 7 or 10 machine.
[/quote]

I mean it rather the other direction. A pure folding machine on the net won't infect anyone. But it could invite stuff in.

lordmogul wrote on 2025-04-30, 01:40:

I mean it rather the other direction. A pure folding machine on the net won't infect anyone. But it could invite stuff in.

Not gonna happen... easily.
Only if someone is really determined to break into your network... and if that does happen, probably won't be much harder to get into a Win7 or 10 machine. Not even going to talk about the router. Most people (as in, regular individuals, not organizations... and myself included) tend to run old routers with old firmware that's probably full of bugs and exploits by this point. Pretty sure hacking / exploiting my router would be easier than any of my XP machines... which aren't even turned On long enough most of the time for anything terrible to happen.

Though I suppose with retro PCs on the rise in popularity, maybe it won't be long until someone writes new malware for these older machines, just for shits and giggles.