From personal experience, Debian isn't so great with proprietary Nvidia drivers

The sad reality of Nvidia support is that you must use at least first generation of RTX on Linux. Everything below will soon be dropped or already has been dropped and may work decently only on X11. And there's simply no alternative for proprietary drivers.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-05-07, 18:55:

From personal experience, Debian isn't so great with proprietary Nvidia drivers. Sure, you can install them, and they work fine... until an update breaks something. About a year ago or so, Debian's 12.5 update broke proprietary Nvidia drivers and left it unfixed for quite a while. I would suggest using Linux Mint instead, or MX Linux if you want something Debian-based that's a bit more user friendly.

And as others have said, Win10 LTSC IoT will be supported until 2032, so there's always that as a fallback option.

Do Debian forks inherit the same updates? If they do, so does one fork fix issues and other doesn't?

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2025-05-07, 19:23:

Do Debian forks inherit the same updates? If they do, so does one fork fix issues and other doesn't?

They do, but some like MX Linux make it a bit easier to install proprietary Nvidia drivers by including a dedicated utility for that. Linux Mint is Ubuntu based and even more user friendly, so the Nvidia driver situation might be a bit better there.

That said, I'm not in a good position to judge this as I rarely game on Linux, aside from using emulators.

Mint LDME6 is a direct fork of Debian and requires a console command to install Nvidia proprietary driver.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-05-07, 19:34:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2025-05-07, 19:23:

Do Debian forks inherit the same updates? If they do, so does one fork fix issues and other doesn't?

They do, but some like MX Linux make it a bit easier to install proprietary Nvidia drivers by including a dedicated utility for that. Linux Mint is Ubuntu based and even more user friendly, so the Nvidia driver situation might be a bit better there.

That said, I'm not in a good position to judge this as I rarely game on Linux, aside from using emulators.

So for the last 3 months I've done all my gaming on Linux Mint. It gave me a prompt to install the latest proprietary nvidia drivers as part of the install process. Everything else "just worked" except the printer. After getting Steam and Heroic installed, every game I installed "just worked", with a few exceptions under Heroic. Mostly involving games thinking a VC runtime wasn't installed, so Heroic could be a bit smoother in that regard. It was solvable, but annoying.

There is currently a bit of a DX12 penalty with nvidia drivers, but I ran Doom Eternal which is vulkan I guess with all the bells and whistles maxed out at 144 fps framecap the entire time. Only games I've noticed being slower are Cyberpunk 2077 with fully path traced lighting, and I think Mechwarrior 5: Clans? Cyberpunk was definitely slower, I benchmarked it, but Clans I'm just guessing from how much less smooth the framerate seemed.

Also, framegen looks like ass on Linux. At least with my config. Everything else is fine though, DLSS, ray reconstruction, etc.

Been playing the System Shock remake on Linux through Heroic and it's been fine, minus another VC runtime error I circumvented to no further effect.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2025-05-07, 19:19:

The sad reality of Nvidia support is that you must use at least first generation of RTX on Linux. Everything below will soon be dropped or already has been dropped and may work decently only on X11. And there's simply no alternative for proprietary drivers.

I used Radeon HD 4890 in the past, its drivers for Linux are terrible. fglrx was the most atrocious driver I ever dealt with. Open-source driver couldn't even deal with night-vision in Half-Life: Opposing Force without lagging. Shifting to NVIDIA just shifted problems to other areas.

What do they mean Linux is good for old computers?? Seems to me shit is obsoleted much faster than on Windows.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-05-07, 19:34:

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2025-05-07, 19:23:

Do Debian forks inherit the same updates? If they do, so does one fork fix issues and other doesn't?

They do, but some like MX Linux make it a bit easier to install proprietary Nvidia drivers by including a dedicated utility for that. Linux Mint is Ubuntu based and even more user friendly, so the Nvidia driver situation might be a bit better there.

That said, I'm not in a good position to judge this as I rarely game on Linux, aside from using emulators.

Hm I was avoiding Arch for the reason it gets too many updates which often breaks things, while Debian, as you said gets too less updates so a broken thing might get fixed very late.

Ubuntu seems to be in a bad light as much as I heard, but didn't get to see why, I think something related to privacy EULA, in which case Linux Mint becomes a choice, which is my VM Linux currently as well.

My mental blockade to use a stuffed up Linux comes from the ideology of Windows bootleg releases like "Windows XP Gold Edition", "Windows 7 Turkish Lite Edition", etc.

Talking about drivers, I don't know what to put on an Intel integrated graphics since it would be pretty much used for internet browsing and stuff

Guys,
My old $120 HP z440 workstation is Rock Solid on Win-10 and Win-11
This computer was designed to Support Win-10 and Linux.

Specs:
Xeon e5-2687a ( 16-cores, 32-threads )
64gb ECC RAM
104 Terrabytes of Storage
LSI HBA Hard drive controller
PCIe adapter with dual Nvme drives
Two Sata SSD
8 hard drives ( 8 x 12tb )
PCI slot with Sound Blaster Audigy 2zs
Bluray Sata drive
AMD 7900xt video card
10gigabit Network card.

And I still have Room to add more Stuff.

All the Drivers loaded automatically with Microsoft update utility
I am only using drivers provided by Microsoft.

At first when Win-10 was released my computer would always crash. ( Blue Screen of death )
But Now it’s Rock Solid Dependable.
Ever since 22H2 update release it been Rock Solid.
Runs perfect in Win-11-pro too.

No more System crashes or Blue screen of Death.

When W10 came out I had issues with sound working correctly so I stuck with Windows 7 a very long time. Now that they are not making major upgrades to W10 it works pretty well so I use that for my newer gaming rigs. Let somebody else get the kinks worked out of W11 and then I will think of using that.

Linux is fine for web browser email machine, but each distro only gets maybe 5 years of support while the server ones get 10 years. So, if there are 0-day exploits you have to keep on upgrading anyway.

Unknown_K wrote on 2025-05-07, 21:36:

Linux is fine for web browser email machine, but each distro only gets maybe 5 years of support while the server ones get 10 years. So, if there are 0-day exploits you have to keep on upgrading anyway.

Gosh, that sounds eerily like Windows support lifecycles! 😂

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2025-05-07, 19:19:

From personal experience, Debian isn't so great with proprietary Nvidia drivers

The sad reality of Nvidia support is that you must use at least first generation of RTX on Linux. Everything below will soon be dropped or already has been dropped and may work decently only on X11. And there's simply no alternative for proprietary drivers.

The state of nvidia on modern linux is appalling. It basically went to shit in the blink of an eye.

I am currently looking at a stretched out 1024x768 vesa image on the gt240 I managed to scrounge recently...

Why?

xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-340xx is the latest one to support it, and also luckily the oldest one still in the repo. Only problem is, it does not work with the latest Xorg releases - looks like some stuff changed in X and since the driver is no longer maintained, just left to rot. So the proprietary nvidia driver is out of the question, even though it pretends to be there and the kernel module compiles and all.

nouveau to the rescue? I am afraid not. It works fine at 1920x1200 for anywhere between 2 and 30 minutes before the screen freezes and the system starts crashing hard shortly after that. From reading online I can gather this is a known nouveau issue with the gt240 since something like the year 2012. I can confirm that this "bug" still works, unlike the proprietary driver.

i made the switch to 11 in november 2021, had to make some changes to the ui (the right click menu is awful) and uninstall all the ad apps , but so far so good...

out of the box is fucking terrible with pops for everything, but once you dial the right settings its pretty reasonable and stable, i would say the most stable Windows i used since 3.1 (one bsod so far in 3 and a half years and i think it was my fault)

in the T60 i have Mint 22 x64 with XFCE, i had to babysit that MF more times than i wanted to, getting ridicoulus messages with ZERO explanation of what is happening (Make work something out of the ordinary is a pain in the ass most of the time). The very thing that an OS has to do is not getting in the way, and Linux is not there YET

and all this is coming from an IT guy of 26 years in the field. If i get frustrated with stupid shit that make me feel im using a house of cards like Win 98 SE, i cant imagine a normal person in the daily basis with this.

and man...its Mint, one of the friendlier distros. The only thing going for this kind of distros is that out of the box is pretty usable with all the common stuff to use, unlike windows that its pretty useless

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2025-05-07, 17:50:

Even popular Linux distros still have a lot of friction which won't make the dreaded "year of Linux" a reality for now. Especially when it comes to easiness of software installation. But hopefully it will be ironed out before 2032, because there are big companies which have vested interest in that now.

After looking at the states linux is in, I guess this has been my main contention of somehow going back to a platform like windows. Maybe its genetics or environmental issues.

The current state within this hypothetical “freedom software” seems to be one of high internal conflict.

The desire for autonomy and freedom is being challenged by the overwhelming number of choices and the fear of negative outcomes. There’s also a sense of disconnect from the perceived current operating standards of the environment.

Umm twiz11... are you an AI?

Win10 seemed good to me as daily driver since version 1809. I can get by Win11, 23H2 at least, newer don't like the old CPU. I miss the old theme with Win7 aesthetics, would take a lot of clicking to make it again. The .msstyles file of Win11 RTM is totally incompatible. I could use adapted file of Win11 RTM all the way down to Win10 1809 without noticeable glitches.

badmojo wrote on 2025-05-08, 22:53:

Umm twiz11... are you an AI?

I have been observing the user: some of the posts look completely normal as an user like their Syberia GOG issue, however the language looks extra refined. It may be possible they are using a translator as well?

BEEN_Nath_58 wrote on 2025-05-09, 12:22:

I have been observing the user: some of the posts look completely normal as an user like their Syberia GOG issue, however the language looks extra refined. It may be possible they are using a translator as well?

Possibly and I hope I haven't offended anybody, but I see a lot of AI summaries of meetings, etc at work and they have the same tone as some of the responses in this thread. An accurate summary using very general terms, but without any real insight.

To me the main barrier for Linux adoption is backwards compatibility with older games and availability of newer games. If developers switch to Linux as the main game platform at some point I already maintain vintage machine for old OSes, so what's one more for "modern" software.

For the first time ever I can actually see a way forward for Linux. Let's see how that gets screwed up.

Shagittarius wrote on 2025-05-09, 22:20:

To me the main barrier for Linux adoption is backwards compatibility with older games and availability of newer games. If developers switch to Linux as the main game platform at some point I already maintain vintage machine for old OSes, so what's one more for "modern" software.

For the first time ever I can actually see a way forward for Linux. Let's see how that gets screwed up.

There will probably always be a screw up along the way.

But I was listening to someone speak about what his prediction is, and he says what's likely going to happen is MS and Apple are moving to walled-in cloud/gadgets, and that Linux will be the sole survivor for the desktop environment. So Linux will be the last man standing winner of the traditional desktop OS, because everyone else moved on.

However, what I think this means for gaming, is that there is a chance that most gaming in the future will end up on linux. The valve peeps are to thank for giving legitimacy to it. I think gaming companies will come to it like dominoes, one by one, and slowly... whether they make that choice, natively or not, it will just happen.

But I was listening to someone speak about what his prediction is, and he says what's likely going to happen is MS and Apple are moving to walled-in cloud/gadgets,
and that Linux will be the sole survivor for the desktop environment.
So Linux will be the last man standing winner of the traditional desktop OS, because everyone else moved on.

Oh no! Please don't! That sounds like a horror scenario, like a dystopia. 😰
Imagine it was the 90s and someone had said same thing about MS!
No offense, but Linux as a monopoly would be a nightmare.
It would end binary compatibility, backwards compatibility etc.
If that day will eventually come, I'd rather move out into the wild and give up computing altogether.

No one should have that much power and influence alone.
I'd rather wish to see BSD, Minix 3 and Haiku gain more ground.
Or any of those Unix systems used in automation, industry etc. Things similar to QNX or L4.
A diverse, a heterogeneous landscape is good.

Linux has the disadvantage that it has a cult following, it's like a religion to some.
As long as it's in the "opposition" and challenging the other parties (big tech companies), it's fine. That's were it does belong to.
It shouldn't become the lone leader, though. IMHO.
The people working on it are mentally unstable nerds and have narcistic traits, I'm afraid.