britelite wrote on 2024-11-15, 10:47:

SteveC wrote on 2024-11-13, 16:34:

I recently picked up a VortexDX machine - ICOP eBOX-3310A-H Compact PC. Managed to get DOS going even with audio drivers etc.

Would you mind sharing what audio drivers you used for DOS? I have a eBOX-3300A which should have the same audio hardware, but haven't found any DOS-drivers for it (works fine in Windows 98 though).

I think it is basically it - running it via windows sound driver in ms-dos mode, not native DOS environment.
BTW, if I recall correctly, these VortexDX based PCs have a soundcard routed through USB, not PCI.
Win98 does work with some USB audio cards.

britelite wrote on 2024-11-15, 10:47:

SteveC wrote on 2024-11-13, 16:34:

I recently picked up a VortexDX machine - ICOP eBOX-3310A-H Compact PC. Managed to get DOS going even with audio drivers etc.

Would you mind sharing what audio drivers you used for DOS? I have a eBOX-3300A which should have the same audio hardware, but haven't found any DOS-drivers for it (works fine in Windows 98 though).

I think it was https://github.com/crazii/SBEMU - wasn't perfect but way better than nothing!

SteveC wrote on 2024-11-15, 11:39:

britelite wrote on 2024-11-15, 10:47:

SteveC wrote on 2024-11-13, 16:34:

I recently picked up a VortexDX machine - ICOP eBOX-3310A-H Compact PC. Managed to get DOS going even with audio drivers etc.

Would you mind sharing what audio drivers you used for DOS? I have a eBOX-3300A which should have the same audio hardware, but haven't found any DOS-drivers for it (works fine in Windows 98 though).

I think it was https://github.com/crazii/SBEMU - wasn't perfect but way better than nothing!

Interesting. Could you please share a BIOS dump and identify the model of an audio chip ? Is it CM119?
I suspect it has something to do with HDA Control in BIOS, which is hidden in 3300. (but does not work anyway). Meantime, I'll have a look at the datasheet for CM119

UPD:
After some searching, I found out that there was another model called 3310MX-H. It pretty much looks identical to 3300 or 3310, but has different hardware.
Vortex86MX has integrated HDA and is, indeed, compatible with SBEMU.
3300 (which I own as a separate motherboard) and 3310A-H both seem to have CM119 audio chip.
CM119 is connected to SoC via USB and I cannot think of any way of it to work in DOS other than through Win98 driver (which I have not tested yet)

Paul_V wrote on 2024-11-15, 14:06:

After some searching, I found out that there was another model called 3310MX-H. It pretty much looks identical to 3300 or 3310, but has different hardware.
Vortex86MX has integrated HDA and is, indeed, compatible with SBEMU.

Yeah, I also have an MX-model and can confirm that SBEMU indeed works fine there.

I have a few of those lil ebox things (MX and DX2). SBEMU sounds like a good plan.

Clint from LGR Does a tear-down review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8WfiRRvQXo

Thanks Paul_V for your great work and your time.

From my own experience I would not recommend going back to DX3, it's an absolute dead end. We've been trying this processor for a few weeks and it's not good. We've tried several boards and there is clearly a bug in the USB and PCI communication, where the whole system slows down enough to freeze up and end in blue death. This is in case you wanted to make an ITX board.

Where I see the future is DX2, I recommend the VDX2-6526-V2-512 board for testing. I have not seen better compatibility with Win98, ME, 2000 and XP. The integrated VGA is much better than the graphics chip on the DX1.

If I turn off L2 and L1 and set the partitioning to 32 the computer slows down significantly. It's not what I would expect from smooth gameplay in games like Test Drive 3 but it's still a good start.

I made a spreadsheet comparing the Vortex86 line and a couple other SoCs. Maybe it'll be useful to one of you? DM me if you have suggestions for additional comparison parameters or have data I'm missing.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1crZcm … dit?usp=sharing

Vridek wrote on 2025-03-25, 19:57:

Thanks Paul_V for your great work and your time. […]
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Thanks Paul_V for your great work and your time.

From my own experience I would not recommend going back to DX3, it's an absolute dead end. We've been trying this processor for a few weeks and it's not good. We've tried several boards and there is clearly a bug in the USB and PCI communication, where the whole system slows down enough to freeze up and end in blue death. This is in case you wanted to make an ITX board.

Where I see the future is DX2, I recommend the VDX2-6526-V2-512 board for testing. I have not seen better compatibility with Win98, ME, 2000 and XP. The integrated VGA is much better than the graphics chip on the DX1.

If I turn off L2 and L1 and set the partitioning to 32 the computer slows down significantly. It's not what I would expect from smooth gameplay in games like Test Drive 3 but it's still a good start.

I've eventually gave up Vortex SoC in favour of a Pentium-M based Half-ISA format motherboard build, which suits me perfectly.

DX2 is basically EOL too. I'd like to see how Vortex86EX2 would perform, but it is not easily available and needs invenstment in bios coding.
Pentium-M outperforms both in case of downclocking options.

As I mentioned here, disabling L1\L2 on Vortex86DX2 basically disables any clock division, so there's no need to set it to 32

Paul_V wrote on 2025-03-26, 10:33:

I've eventually given up Vortex SoC in favour of a Pentium-M based Half-ISA format motherboard build, which suits me perfectly. […]
Show full quote

Vridek wrote on 2025-03-25, 19:57:

Thanks Paul_V for your great work and your time. […]
Show full quote

Thanks Paul_V for your great work and your time.

From my own experience I would not recommend going back to DX3, it's an absolute dead end. We've been trying this processor for a few weeks and it's not good. We've tried several boards and there is clearly a bug in the USB and PCI communication, where the whole system slows down enough to freeze up and end in blue death. This is in case you wanted to make an ITX board.

Where I see the future is DX2, I recommend the VDX2-6526-V2-512 board for testing. I have not seen better compatibility with Win98, ME, 2000 and XP. The integrated VGA is much better than the graphics chip on the DX1.

If I turn off L2 and L1 and set the partitioning to 32 the computer slows down significantly. It's not what I would expect from smooth gameplay in games like Test Drive 3 but it's still a good start.

I've eventually given up Vortex SoC in favour of a Pentium-M based Half-ISA format motherboard build, which suits me perfectly.

DX2 is basically EOL too. I'd like to see how Vortex86EX2 would perform, but it is not easily available and needs invenstment in bios coding.
Pentium-M outperforms both in case of downclocking options.

As I mentioned here, disabling L1\L2 on Vortex86DX2 basically disables any clock division, so there's no need to set it to 32

Vortex86EX2 cannot be used because of a problem that is not publicly discussed. Even though DX2 has this limitation it is still a $40-50 processor with integrated graphics that suits a large number of games.

@Paul_v

I know you gave up on the Vortex86 DX, but I have a Vortex86 DX based computer and I am seeing that hardware-scrolling games (Superfrog, Supaplex, Turrican II...) all have major scrolling problems with this SOM.
Do you know if there is a VIDEO CARD ROM better suited for DOS gaming that I can inject in the BIOS, please?

After searching for a while, you are possibly the only person on earth who could have a clue on that.

vanfanel wrote on 2025-05-09, 17:47:

@Paul_v […]
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@Paul_v

I know you gave up on the Vortex86 DX, but I have a Vortex86 DX based computer and I am seeing that hardware-scrolling games (Superfrog, Supaplex, Turrican II...) all have major scrolling problems with this SOM.
Do you know if there is a VIDEO CARD ROM better suited for DOS gaming that I can inject in the BIOS, please?

After searching for a while, you are possibly the only person on earth who could have a clue on that.

Hi,

Could you pls specify, which SOM model is it? And how scrolling problem manifests itself.

Concerning video rom, depends on which gpu chip have. Whether it's Volari Z9 or SMI712 (or maybe something else)
Several rom modifications exist, which in general just modify resolution to suit different industrial LCDs.
But recovering BIOS in case something goes wrong is a PITA, so I advise against that unless absolutely neccessary.

Did you try to set different video mode in BIOS?
Anyway, I can only speculate without knowing details.

Paul_V wrote on 2025-03-26, 10:33:

I've eventually gave up Vortex SoC in favour of a Pentium-M based Half-ISA format motherboard build, which suits me perfectly.

I'd love to hear about this setup, any posts about it?

Dothan Burger wrote on 2025-05-09, 20:11:

Paul_V wrote on 2025-03-26, 10:33:

I've eventually gave up Vortex SoC in favour of a Pentium-M based Half-ISA format motherboard build, which suits me perfectly.

I'd love to hear about this setup, any posts about it?

Not yet, unfortunately.
But I did a short review on another P-M based motherboard that started it all:
"ISA855" - An interesting and peculiar motherboard from ali

Half-ISA format build is just my attempt at making it more portable, without paying a fortune.
Still need to make a ES1869+MT32pi based pc/104 soundcard.
Ironically, when installed, pc/104 card does not align well with Half-ISA backplate, requiring additional cabling (or more creative thinking).

Paul_V wrote on 2025-05-09, 19:52:

Hi, […]
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vanfanel wrote on 2025-05-09, 17:47:

@Paul_v […]
Show full quote

@Paul_v

I know you gave up on the Vortex86 DX, but I have a Vortex86 DX based computer and I am seeing that hardware-scrolling games (Superfrog, Supaplex, Turrican II...) all have major scrolling problems with this SOM.
Do you know if there is a VIDEO CARD ROM better suited for DOS gaming that I can inject in the BIOS, please?

After searching for a while, you are possibly the only person on earth who could have a clue on that.

Hi,

Could you pls specify, which SOM model is it? And how scrolling problem manifests itself.

Concerning video rom, depends on which gpu chip have. Whether it's Volari Z9 or SMI712 (or maybe something else)
Several rom modifications exist, which in general just modify resolution to suit different industrial LCDs.
But recovering BIOS in case something goes wrong is a PITA, so I advise against that unless absolutely neccessary.

Did you try to set different video mode in BIOS?
Anyway, I can only speculate without knowing details.

Thanks for your answer on this, I appreciate it since I believe you would like to have the same kind of system that me, but you are way more technically illustrated than I am 😀

The SOM I'm using is exactly the SOM304RD-52VINE1 model, which is detailed here:
https://icop-shop.com/product/som304rd52vine1/
Apparently, according to the info on the "Specifications" tab there, it's equipped with a XGI Volari Z9s VGA Chipset.
The problem is that the games have jerky scrolling: scrolling is perfect for 2-3 seconds, then it has a hiccup, then it's perfect again, then another hiccup, then perfect for a while, then several hiccups in a row, then smooth again... and so on. That's for Turrican II, SuperFrog, Supaplex... all the classic fine-scrolling DOS games, in fact.

It's very hard to show in a video, but in person it's very noticeable. In some games, audio seems to be affected too.

For example, in Dungeon Master (the classic 3D dungeon crawler by FTL), there is a mod music module playing on the main menu screen: moving the mouse around causes the music to slow down massively.

I can't see any options related to video mode in BIOS: I am using the stock BIOS.
If you have a suitable BIOS or video ROM I could use, please tell me and I will gladly flash and test them: without the games working correctly, I have no use for the SOM anyway...

Any ideas are welcome, since I have three of those SOMs I got for a good price because I thought it would be a future-proof solution for DOS fun on real hardware.

vanfanel wrote on 2025-05-09, 17:47:

The SOM I'm using is exactly the SOM304RD-52VINE1 model, which is detailed here:

Well, actually I don't own any SOM. All my DX based boards are either ebox or pc/104 ones.

I've checked some BIOSes for this SOM, and there seem to be a difference in this particular setting, which is hidden, btw. (Some have Text mode, some Graphics)
Can you make a dump of your BIOS using BIOSMP tool and post it here? I could check, which options are available.

Lastly, check your PM. I've sent you some resources to check.
But please, be very carefull and don't do anything hasty.
Recovering from BIOS failure is complicated on these modules.

@Paul_V
Thanks! This is the BIOS dump:

Is there a way (like a key combo or something) to display those "hidden" video options?
Or maybe I should hexedit the BIOS to change them? (Sounds dangerous...!)

I've checked your dump and it seems to be ok. VGA rom is exactly the same one 6390RDA6 use, which should not give any trouble.
By the way, do you use PS/2 or USB? Which cpu speed setting is used? I vaguely recall USB support being wonky, especially at lower speeds.
If the latter is used, try disabling USB altogether and use PS/2.

It is been a while, but if I find my DX board, I'll try to run some tests.

UPD

vanfanel wrote on 2025-05-10, 18:15:

This is the BIOS dump:

OK, I've dug out my long-suffering board and here's what I've done so far:
1) Replaced VGA ROM module in my BIOS with the module from your dump ROM. (Your VGA ROM version is more recent than mine, btw)
2) Launched Supaplex in DOS 6.22. Got stuck listening to that blasted intro music 5min straight, forgetting what I've launched it for.
3) Ran a few "tests" on Supaplex with PS/2 keyboard and USB enabled. Nothing unusual (Except, that I suck at this game).
4) 4 hours later, I connected USB keyboard instead of PS/2 and got scrolling stutters, similar to your description, probably due to USB buffer overflow or something. USB support in DOS has always been limited.

So, yeah. PS/2 is the way to go.
Or you could check out "HIDman", a great project from Rasteri, if you wish to stick to USB.

@Paul_v
Thanks a lot for your experiments! I should have suspected USB... Good thing you noticed.
I once knew how flaky and wonky USB input support is on DOS, but for some reason I forgot.
Luckily enough, I have a HidMAN here (by the great Rasteri, who started this "new hardware for DOS" fever for me with his WeeCee!), but I lack male-to-male PS/2 cables so I'll have to wait in order to try using the PS/2 port on my board.
Everything points to what you said: I'm almost sure the massive music slowdown in Dungeon Master tittle screen will also be avoided using PS/2.
This is great! Can't wait to have those male-to-male cable here with me to replicate your experiment.

yeah the dodgy USB support in Vortex86 chips is most of the reason I made hidman