and like in Windows XP, you will need antiviruses to use the internet somewhat safely

A bunch of anti-virus software still supports Windows 7. So that's not an issue in the slightest.

The Serpent Rider wrote on Yesterday, 17:04:

and like in Windows XP, you will need antiviruses to use the internet somewhat safely

A bunch of anti-virus software still supports Windows 7. So that's not an issue in the slightest.

I am aware, but I find it difficult to find a somewhat reliable automated FREE antivirus software ANY system. I use ClamAV on my Linux box, and just don't connect anything that actually requires a proper antivirus.
Yeah there are free ones, but they are bloated adware at this point, and usually don't do the job.

retroholicism wrote on Yesterday, 16:55:

Windows 10 will sure run in the future, but a lot of the applications will quickly drop support for it, and like in Windows XP, you will need antiviruses to use the internet somewhat safely.

I don't think it will be as quick, because Win10 and Win11 are very close in terms of both kernel and Win32 APIs. Given that Windows Defender definitions still update even on Windows 7, I also don't think an antivirus will suddenly become a requirement.

dr_st wrote on Yesterday, 19:15:

retroholicism wrote on Yesterday, 16:55:

Windows 10 will sure run in the future, but a lot of the applications will quickly drop support for it, and like in Windows XP, you will need antiviruses to use the internet somewhat safely.

I don't think it will be as quick, because Win10 and Win11 are very close in terms of both kernel and Win32 APIs. Given that Windows Defender definitions still update even on Windows 7, I also don't think an antivirus will suddenly become a requirement.

If it comes to application just dropping support, its as easy as checking the registry. Not all apps may do that, but I'm sure a few programs will refuse to run just for fun. As for the Windows Defender thing... I did not know that, I will keep that in mind.

https://it.slashdot.org/story/25/05/13/177238 … of-support-date
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2025/05/micro … 0-through-2028/

retroholicism wrote on Yesterday, 16:58:

dr_st wrote on Yesterday, 15:19:

I wonder about update compatibility. For example: […]
Show full quote

retroholicism wrote on Yesterday, 14:55:

This only holds true for Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC, which is mainly reserved for businesses and such. Most people can't really get access unless they are part of such an institution(?) or are willing to resort to dubious methods. For the standard user, its best to update to Winblows 11 by October of this year, or like the rest of the forum has been suggesting, move to some distro of Linux! (or pirate it LTSC... if that floats your boat, heh)

I wonder about update compatibility. For example:

• XP could get POSReady updates between 2014 and 2019 directly from WU with a simple registry key.
• Vista support ended in 2017, and you could no longer get updates via WU, but for the x64 version you could download and manually install Server 2008 updates all the way until 2023.
• Win7 support ended in 2020, ESU updates could be installed (manually or automatically) until 2023, but required a hack to block the ESU license check mechanism.

I wonder how it's going to work with Win10.

Microsoft has really been doubling down on their systems lately. For example, they mandate that you create a Microsoft account for Windows 11, and they keep closing up different bypasses. I anticipate that they will block Windows 10 from accessing their servers, using registry keys, installing some form of alternative OS, or using hacks. We don't know yet, but we will know pretty soon.

i mean they really want you to have an account which is ok seeing as most minecraft gamers already have to have one to play. Unless you want to play the old legacy builds on legacy consoles like xbox 360/ps3/ps4 etc. I dont think you need an account for android but you still have to buy the bloody thing from google play.

There will always be a loophole somewhere. I installed Ubuntu on a relatively modern machine, fast as hell just having sound issues. There will always be issues either way with windows or per say Ubuntu. They want us to recycle our PCs like cans and bottles but we dont get a deposit back

twiz11 wrote on Yesterday, 21:58:

retroholicism wrote on Yesterday, 16:58:

dr_st wrote on Yesterday, 15:19:

I wonder about update compatibility. For example: […]
Show full quote

I wonder about update compatibility. For example:

• XP could get POSReady updates between 2014 and 2019 directly from WU with a simple registry key.
• Vista support ended in 2017, and you could no longer get updates via WU, but for the x64 version you could download and manually install Server 2008 updates all the way until 2023.
• Win7 support ended in 2020, ESU updates could be installed (manually or automatically) until 2023, but required a hack to block the ESU license check mechanism.

I wonder how it's going to work with Win10.

Microsoft has really been doubling down on their systems lately. For example, they mandate that you create a Microsoft account for Windows 11, and they keep closing up different bypasses. I anticipate that they will block Windows 10 from accessing their servers, using registry keys, installing some form of alternative OS, or using hacks. We don't know yet, but we will know pretty soon.

i mean they really want you to have an account which is ok seeing as most minecraft gamers already have to have one to play. Unless you want to play the old legacy builds on legacy consoles like xbox 360/ps3/ps4 etc. I dont think you need an account for android but you still have to buy the bloody thing from google play.

There will always be a loophole somewhere. I installed Ubuntu on a relatively modern machine, fast as hell just having sound issues. There will always be issues either way with windows or per say Ubuntu. They want us to recycle our PCs like cans and bottles but we dont get a deposit back

Ehhh, the Windows 11 account bypass videos were trending for a reason. Some may actually need/like that account thing, but a lot of the people I know HATE it.
I remember struggling with sound when I started out... I still do heh. I always find there's always an issue to be fixed, but that's true everywhere. I left Windows 10 way before Windows 11 was released, just when it was being announced because Windows 10 (even after a fresh install) kept corrupting files. Linux maybe a PITA but at least my files don't get shredded on random.

keenmaster486 wrote on Yesterday, 16:31:

The main thing keeping people on Windows is not actually IT departments per se, but large software companies that have longstanding monopolies on certain indispensible programs used in professional environments, and who arbitrarily refuse to port said programs to Linux, for who knows what actual reasons - maybe Microsoft is "making sure" that they never do.

Actually, the reason not to port software to Linux is very simple:

LINUX DOES NOT EXIST.

Yes, there's no such operating system as "Linux"!
"Linux" is just the kernel.
To get a complete OS, you need vast amount of other software in addition to Linux - ie. a distribution.

And here's the problem: the number of distributions is pretty much infinite.
Also, many of the distros do major releases every few months.

If you make a program for Windows, you can expect it to run on 100% of current Windows versions, and even future ones - for 10 years? 20? Maybe even more.

If you make a program for a Linux distro, you can expect it to run on like 5% of current Linux distros, and very likely 0% of distros released a year later.

Is Windows a good operating system?
HELL NO, AND NOT EVEN CLOSE!
But it's still possible to write - and sell! - software for that poor excuse for an OS.
The fragmentation of Linux, however, makes is s pretty much impossible to provide proper support - and that's exactly the deal breaker!

Nah that's not a real issue these days, you just get a Debian based distro and call it a day.

keenmaster486 wrote on Today, 01:55:

Nah that's not a real issue these days, you just get a Debian based distro and call it a day.

Are you sure?

Yes, major releases of Debian aren't as frequent as of many other distros - but it's still every 2 years.

Let's assume you're releasing an application for the current Debian - but can you guarantee that it will work under the 2027 Debian?
And I mean a non-trivial application - rather something like AutoCAD: graphics intensive, designed to cooperate with external modules, and specialized I/O devices.

Windows 11 was released 6 years after Windows 10.
6 years of peace for third-party vendors - and very likely many more, as the differences between 10 and 11 aren't big enough to break properly-written apps.
Can you expect it from Linux?

Also, you say "just get a Debian" - while others will say "just get a Red Hat", "just get a SUSE", and so on...
In effect, you can't expect all your customers to use your preferred distro.

Grzyb wrote on Today, 03:15:

Are you sure? […]
Show full quote

keenmaster486 wrote on Today, 01:55:

Nah that's not a real issue these days, you just get a Debian based distro and call it a day.

Are you sure?

Yes, major releases of Debian aren't as frequent as of many other distros - but it's still every 2 years.

Let's assume you're releasing an application for the current Debian - but can you guarantee that it will work under the 2027 Debian?
And I mean a non-trivial application - rather something like AutoCAD: graphics intensive, designed to cooperate with external modules, and specialized I/O devices.

Windows 11 was released 6 years after Windows 10.
6 years of peace for third-party vendors - and very likely many more, as the differences between 10 and 11 aren't big enough to break properly-written apps.
Can you expect it from Linux?

Also, you say "just get a Debian" - while others will say "just get a Red Hat", "just get a SUSE", and so on...
In effect, you can't expect all your customers to use your preferred distro.

Honestly, not only does this keep companies from developing packages for Linux, it prevents new users from getting into it as well. I think the first can be solved with "we only support [insert popular distro(s) here], for other distros, install this tarball and we wish you luck," with a community that finds potential methods to keep it working with future versions. Basically, how it kind of is now for certain softwares, like Steam (supported on linux, but only .deb packages are offered through its download page; yet, it is in almost every pkg manager). It would be better than what is now at least.

The latter (problem with the userbase)? Good luck, as much as we all praise Linux (I included), it is not a worthwhile solution for most. It is too fragmented (as mentioned) and every distro has either some sort of issue that can hinder software (Debian being stable for example, or Arch is too complex to use), is tailored for some niche use (Void being designed like a BSD, or Nix having that weird packaging scheme), or has competitive userbases that may fight over alternative distros (Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, etc). No distro is one size fits all, imo, Mint could be the way to go for new users, but so can Ubuntu or Fedora.

Grzyb wrote on Today, 03:15:

others will say "just get a Red Hat", "just get a SUSE", and so on...

And they will be wrong!

I'm serious - standardization is here. Debian, apt, that whole ecosystem... it's the Windows of Linux, in a good way.

None of what you said actually matters in practical terms, because the only thing that matters is what the end user sees. You want to set your friend up with Linux? Yeah you're not using Arch or Red Hat. You're installing Mint or some other Debian-based distro.

When software companies decide they want to start offering a Linux version, would anyone there in their right mind not immediately think "end goal is at least a deb package" even if they're CentOS diehards or something?

Every "normie" software that offers a Linux version offers a deb package.

"Can I run Spotify on this?"

"Yeah the deb package is right there on their website"

Easiest thing in the world.

Almost forgot... I work in the data center world. You're selling yourself short if you don't just standardize everything around headless Ubuntu.

Do we have an overview how much WIN32 API has changed in recent years, say from Win10 1809 to now?

I have zero interest in Linux vs Windows wars and this openSUSE made webpage is spreading FUD about Windows. W10 will be safe to use for many years to come.

Grzyb wrote on Today, 01:03:

If you make a program for a Linux distro, you can expect it to run on like 5% of current Linux distros, and very likely 0% of distros released a year later.

Even if you forget about Flatpak, Snap and Appimage formats just take a look at Firefox. They release new versions in deb and rpm but also in binaries. You can run them almost everywhere. They just work. So it is possible. I'm mainly a Windows user but I also use Void and Porteux from time to time. I'm not afraid to download and run binaries compiled for other distros. Most of the time they work, sometimes they need a simple workaround to make it work.

The same issue exist in Windows when new MSVC or .NET is released and you get a binary file without dependencies.

keenmaster486 wrote on Today, 06:05:

Almost forgot... I work in the data center world. You're selling yourself short if you don't just standardize everything around headless Ubuntu.

Most (big) IT/data center companies I work for are using RHEL, Oracle Linux or AlmaLinux for cloud and on-prem servers. Debian sometimes but Ubuntu never. Personally I would never use Ubuntu for servers (only sometimes for client pc's). Ubuntu imo made some questionable decisions and I don't trust them for the long run.

Retro 10 died a long time ago.
32bit. Rip.

Grzyb wrote on Today, 03:15:

Are you sure? […]
Show full quote

keenmaster486 wrote on Today, 01:55:

Nah that's not a real issue these days, you just get a Debian based distro and call it a day.

Are you sure?

Yes, major releases of Debian aren't as frequent as of many other distros - but it's still every 2 years.

Let's assume you're releasing an application for the current Debian - but can you guarantee that it will work under the 2027 Debian?
And I mean a non-trivial application - rather something like AutoCAD: graphics intensive, designed to cooperate with external modules, and specialized I/O devices.

Windows 11 was released 6 years after Windows 10.
6 years of peace for third-party vendors - and very likely many more, as the differences between 10 and 11 aren't big enough to break properly-written apps.
Can you expect it from Linux?

Also, you say "just get a Debian" - while others will say "just get a Red Hat", "just get a SUSE", and so on...
In effect, you can't expect all your customers to use your preferred distro.

So, I did run into a real world case of this just gaming. I tried to play an older game, Harvest: Massive Encounter. It apparently had a Linux native version. It attempted to install a batch of binaries that were no longer supported in Mint 22.1, and so it completely failed to run. It actually ended up working better running the Windows version through Proton than trying to get the Linux version working properly. I have to admit, it was unexpected. As I continue down this path, I wonder if I'll find Linux has better compatibility with 10-20 year old Windows software thanks to heavy development into Wine/Proton than it has with 10-20 year old Linux software.

Wine has everything sitting in a container and old graphics APIs are wrapped via Vulkan by default now.

I'm basically going to dual boot Bazzite and windows 11 and just use Bazzite daily unless on both mine and my wife's system unless we need windows for something. And for our kids build just Bazzite since it's just for gaming and web use for home and school work.