You don't have to have TPM. Just use Rufus to set up an install USB and have it disable the requirements.

cyclone3d wrote on 2025-05-21, 17:30:

You don't have to have TPM. Just use Rufus to set up an install USB and have it disable the requirements.

Yeah, But I did no have to tweak the OEM installation USB to get Win-11 to install and it’s Almost fully supported except for the CPU ( 16-core, 32-thread, Xeon E5-2697a )
I am not sure why because everything works even Co-pilot.
I upgraded ( 3 ) HP z440 computers already with TPM 2.0 with no problems.

These HP z440 computers are he Best Deal on eBay
I am good for another 5 years of computing now.

My PCI Sound Blaster Audigy 2zs from 1998 will live for another 5 years.

If you want to go the expensive route, there is always miditemp. Or making a rack that can connect via USB, but I get the PCI stuff 😀 So I am not in any way shape or form promoting not using a PCI solution, if possible or available 😀 LGR made a midi rack. But perhaps there can be other solutions again. Heck I seem to remember these threads explaining and so forth about sound and what not 😀

Multiple sound cards in one system.

What about MIDITEMP stuff?

my little Midi box

The normal requirements from MS are dumb as they always have been for their latest OS.

For Win 11. MS Surface Pro with 7th Gen is officially supported.

Other brand computers / laptops with the same CPU are not. After a bunch of pushback, MS then let some of those machines have official support. That seems to have gone away somewhat in the latest builds.

At one point I was just using official installs made with the Microsoft Media Creation Tool to install on anything that was at least 7th Gen.

Anything 8th gen or newer should just work.

Xeon models older than 8th gen... Possibly back to 6th or even 5th Gen are officially supported despite them being older than the more consumer orient d CPUs.

They pulled the same crap with 7 and 10.

Co-Pilot can DIAF for all I care.

cyclone3d wrote on 2025-05-21, 18:09:

The normal requirements from MS are dumb as they always have been for their latest OS.

Shhh, Don't spoil things I think MS secretly is into retro computers.
Whenever they drop support of hardware it's value also drops and we get some rather nice hardware for cheap!

cyclone3d wrote on 2025-05-21, 18:09:

Co-Pilot can DIAF for all I care.

What's wrong with Co-Pilot? I'd say its usefulness is on par with Bing 😜

chinny22 wrote on 2025-05-22, 00:00:

Shhh, Don't spoil things I think MS secretly is into retro computers. Whenever they drop support of hardware it's value also dro […]
Show full quote

cyclone3d wrote on 2025-05-21, 18:09:

The normal requirements from MS are dumb as they always have been for their latest OS.

Shhh, Don't spoil things I think MS secretly is into retro computers.
Whenever they drop support of hardware it's value also drops and we get some rather nice hardware for cheap!

cyclone3d wrote on 2025-05-21, 18:09:

Co-Pilot can DIAF for all I care.

What's wrong with Co-Pilot? I'd say its usefulness is on par with Bing 😜

What's right is a easier list to remember.

It's blank.

Recall can also fuck right off.

The reason MS dropped gen7 and older was the simple fact that they dont want to lug around spectre and meltdown remediation microcode for 5 generations of processors from 2 different vendors in their boot loader for another 5 years.

While those older processors will run win11, they are *very* likely to not have these remediations in place, and so can be driveby exploited by shitty web code running in the browser, or shitty application code somewhere in userspace.

Is it shitty? Absolutely.

Can it be helped? ... well... maybe? How mature is FreeLdr, and will THEY maintain the needed microcode library and selector routines?

(Maybe chainload ntldr/winboot from grub2, and inject microcode from there first?)

Most of the dangerous CPU exploits actually require physical access to the PC and if they have access to it already what purpose do these microcode changes do exactly.

The ones that don't require it are pretty hard to pull off without expert knowledge at exploiting them or getting your site nuked from hell by the powers that be once it been reported.

So yeah I don't worry about them at all or if that shitty performance reducing microcode is present, my deets are already out there and likely being sold right now to some darkweb honcho not that it will do them any good.
2FA, mobile authenticators and other 2 factor protections nullify any attempts to steal my shit, you need to get through the 2FA, Authenticator and a security email account to even get access to my primary email, oh you would also need physical access to my mobile.

Organizations have even better security than me so again .. I doubt they even worried or noticed the CPU exploits.

Another thing to remember these people doing the exploits are after fast returns which they wont get from any of the known CPU exploits .. easier and safer to just go scam some ones grandma/grandpa for cash or run Crypto bro scams on youtube or .. NFT bullshit for the gullible out there. If they are after trade secrets or other high level stuff then .. they will need physical access to the PC or network which avoids the need for CPU exploits entirely.

So Intel and AMD can keep their silly microcode changes to themselves, don't need them or want them just give me back the performance you took from me.

Google said this:
But Even if computer manufactures are not supporting the computers on Win-11
Microsoft Win-11 update feature is still providing drivers for this old hardware.

Not really, explicitly true.

NO INSTRUCTIONS WERE ADDED TO GEN8 THAT WERE NOT PRESENT IN GEN7.

You can confirm this yourself with Intel's own datasheets on the processors.

Instead, INSTRUCTIONS WERE REMOVED. Instructions related to siloing processes, and the like.

The TRUE answer, is a combination of what I said, what Trashbytes said, and the 'performance needs' statement from google's trash AI generated response.

Microsoft does not want to continue supporting the vulnerable processors because they have to keep supporting the injection of remediating microcode. (Me)

The microcode is performance destroying dogshit. (Trashbytes, more or less. Apologies for putting words in your mouth there, friend.)

Those CPUs underperform (if they are running the remedial microcode) (AI summary) if they run win11.

Trash is absolutely right that the remedial microcode is a performance destroying dumpsterfire. Last I looked into it, it reduces processor performance by an average 30%.

That's a fucking THIRD.

However, I disagree with the 'needs local access' assertion, because idiotic web browser makers keep pushing for shit like 'Web Assembly' and other 'native code from untrustworthy outside sources running inside the browser' because of how fucking hungry advertisers and site developers are for system resources/performance. (So they can process 11 bazillion cross site cookie checks, to serve you targetted ads, and other bads.)

The malicious code can be silently gurgling inside the festering bowels of google chrome, and you'd never know.

The advert industry has not gotten any better from the driveby infection days of doubleclick and pals, when it comes to ensuring the code their partners run has been vetted to be nonmalicious.

I am of the opinion that MS should just call tjis spade a spade, instead of talking out its ass, but they seem unwilling to accept that hit to optics, becauase they are addicted to the advert based revinue model, and cant risk calling out those bad practices.

I had a 2012 MacBook Pro with Sata SSD, 16mb DDR3 RAM, and Intel i5 Dual core Ivy bridge CPU and graphics.
I had Dual boot MacOS and Win-10 installed.
I ran the same bench mark test on both Operating systems to see which performed better.
Windows-10 preformed better on the Macbook than MacOS.
It was about 20 to 30 percent faster in all test.

So I think Microsoft Operating system is Very efficient on old hardware.

Granted, 'El Reg' is... *infamous*...

But here's some reporting on the 30% realworld reduction claim.

https://www.theregister.com/2018/01/02/intel_ … pu_design_flaw/

I'm running Win11 on my HP Z400 used daily. I use it for heavy duty 3D game dev on an RTX 2080Ti. Just go with Rufus and ignore that TPM crap. Indeed those machines are still relevant IMO as GPU-intensive apps are increasing, and the 2080Ti is no small feat.
Extra bonus is that this machine can run pure DOS perfectly thanks to its PCI slots. It's a fantastic time machine, and usually can be found on your local marketplace for peanuts.

AM5:
ASUS Pro A620M-C-CSM
MSI PRO A620M-C EX

Contra:
yATX
When you want to use PCI slot, your graphics card should not be wider than 2 slots.

If you are using the PC as a daily driver, you really should have TPM. The upcoming method of cookies in Chrome and Edge uses the TPM module to prevent stolen session cookies from being used on other PCs. This locks the cookie to only be valid on the PC they were issued to.

TPM is also used by Bitlocker which is defaulted on the latest version of Windows 11. I do recommend attaching a Microsoft account at some point which backs up the recovery key to the cloud especially if you have a laptop which is easier to lose.

People complained about Microsoft's lack of security for years. Then they start requiring hardware for better security and everyone wants to disable all of it.

Using legacy PCI cards on modern systems under Windows 10 or 11 is quite doable with PCI Express to PCI bridges. I used a Creative X-Fi with such a bridge for a while under Windows 10 before the card started flaking out.

Early revisions of the Asmedia ASM1083 bridge chip (used on some motherboards and bridge adapters) were flaky, but newer ones seem fine. I have had issues with PCIE to PCI bridge adapters with multiple PCI slot not working on newer systems, but the 1-1 adapters I have tried seem to always have worked, AFAICR (with bridge chips from PLX, Asmedia and possibly Pericom).

SScorpio wrote on 2025-05-22, 20:21:

If you are using the PC as a daily driver, you really should have TPM. The upcoming method of cookies in Chrome and Edge uses the TPM module to prevent stolen session cookies from being used on other PCs. This locks the cookie to only be valid on the PC they were issued to.

TPM is also used by Bitlocker which is defaulted on the latest version of Windows 11. I do recommend attaching a Microsoft account at some point which backs up the recovery key to the cloud especially if you have a laptop which is easier to lose.

People complained about Microsoft's lack of security for years. Then they start requiring hardware for better security and everyone wants to disable all of it.

I dont use Chrome or anything using chromium on pc due to how scummy Chrome is with their two faced add pushing practises.

Only people complaining about MS security were the clowns thinking anything made by MS will ever be secure.

Also bitlocker is pointless out side of corporate use and simply not required by the general public.

We have had better more secure security tools long before MS decided to go ahead and obsolete more than half the PCs out there. They don't do this for better security but as a way to force users into their increasingly walled Win11 garden. Once they have you there they can sell their other products and services to you just like Apple does.

Trashbytes wrote on 2025-05-24, 12:38:

I dont use Chrome or anything using chromium on pc due to how scummy Chrome is with their two faced add pushing practises. […]
Show full quote

I dont use Chrome or anything using chromium on pc due to how scummy Chrome is with their two faced add pushing practises.

Only people complaining about MS security were the clowns thinking anything made by MS will ever be secure.

Also bitlocker is pointless out side of corporate use and simply not required by the general public.

We have had better more secure security tools long before MS decided to go ahead and obsolete more than half the PCs out there. They don't do this for better security but as a way to force users into their increasingly walled Win11 garden. Once they have you there they can sell their other products and services to you just like Apple does.

Maybe you have some special setup that never runs the risk of a hacked website launching a zero day exploit which runs in the browser session thus can access all cookies and instantly upload in the blink of an eye. The new security makes those useless anywhere but your PC and being ran from your user account.

For most people it is overkill on a desktop, but break-ins and theft do happen. If you have a laptop you take outside your home, you should be using full disk encryption. There are other ways to do it. But you need something that's seamless and just works for the general public.

People were running Win10 on a Pentium 4. At some point you need to deprecate old hardware so you can start requiring new instruction sets. Are you also upset that Linux finally removed 486 support from the Kernel? And how is Win11 anywhere close to a walled garden? It blocks execution of unsigned code, and unknown new executable by default. But that is to protect 99.9% of its users. These protections can be easily disabled if you don't need them. Why do you even want to run Win11 if you don't like what Microsoft is doing? Plenty of people still run XP and 7. You can also use Linux and take control of your machine. Gaming used to be the thing keeping people on Windows, but outside kernel level anti cheats for multiplayer games, and Gamepass. You no longer need Windows. Hell, most gaming happens on phones and tablets without people even touching a gaming console.

I don't care a damn about 486 support on Linux or running Windows 10 on a Pentium 4 and care even less about gaming what I care about is walled gardens and being forced into a situation where you are at the mercy of the company who developed the OS, you best hope they don't decide to change the contract after they have locked you in.

If you cant see how Windows is slowly becoming a walled garden like Mac OS then you are more than welcome to keep on eating the garbage MS keeps feeding you about their mandatory security requirements.. If however you have half a brain you will step back and look at how MS is pushing it in that direction and understand what this push for MS accounts everything is really about ..hint money/data specifically your money and data and how they can get you to give it to them and keep you locked to them.

Bit Locker has vulnerabilities that if they have your PC/Laptop then drive encryption is pointless, they can also sniff out the TPM keys . .again if they have your machine then you already lost the security war and given enough time they will get the data. TPM and Bitlocker is like throwing all your eggs into the lets trust MS security basket ..not a smart thing to do .. better to go get a HDD with built in drive encryption than to trust TPM/Bitlocker if you really need that level of data security.

As for cookies being stolen . .90% of that is down to Lusers falling for scams and clicking links in emails they have been told countless times to not do or downloading scamware by falling for too good to be true advertising or visiting sites they should not be.

The best security is yourself and being educated enough to see a scam before it sees you.

This little jaunt into false sense of security is off topic here so I wont derail this thread any further.