VOGONS


First post, by kickarse

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Hey folks,

I'm running into a weird issue with my Windows 98 retro build that’s got me scratching my head. 3D performance is fine, but 2D - especially in certain use cases - is unexpectedly poor. Hoping someone here might have insights.

System Specs:
Motherboard: ECS P6BAT-A+ (both Rev 1 and Rev 2 mobos tested, great condition on both)
CPU: Intel Pentium III 450MHz (Katmai, Slot 1)
GPU: Tried both TNT2 Pro (128-bit) and TNT2 M64 (64-bit)
RAM: 384MB SDRAM (various sticks tested)
OS: Windows 98 SE
DirectX: 8.1
Drivers: Several versions tested for chipset (VIA, currently running 4.43) and NVIDIA (12.41 currently, also tested later versions)
Emu focus: VisualBoyAdvance 1.72

What’s Working:
3D games like Deus Ex and Crimson Skies run fine, well within expectations.
2D games like Heroes of Might and Magic III and Fate of the Dragon also work well.
SNES emulation (DOS-based) works great.
DirectDraw tests in dxdiag pass with no errors.
BIOS is dialed in: AGP 2x enabled, IRQs configured, no known conflicts.

The Problems:

VisualBoyAdvance runs at ~50% speed, no matter what settings I choose. Every single config option has been tested - rendering method, frame skip, sound, filters, etc. No dice.

Switching Windows to 32-bit color causes screen tearing when closing or moving windows (visible redraw "tearing" effect). This doesn’t happen in 16-bit mode. I get it that TNT2 Pro is not ideal for 32 bit, but I had one of those back in the day (the entire system is a part-perfect replica), and I don't remember ever having those GUI issues with 32 bit color?

Also, one 2D RTS, Cossacks, seems to be running at a disappointing 20fps when 1024x786 resolution is used.

I’ve swapped:

GPUs (TNT2 Pro → M64, no difference)
Motherboards (Rev 1 → Rev 2, no difference)
RAM sticks ( got a bunch of them: PC 100 and 133, various timings, one stick, two sticks, 128mb, 256 mb, double sided, one sided, etc)

No change in the symptoms.

Looking For:
Has anyone experienced similar 2D slowdowns on a TNT2 setup?
Could this be a driver bug in certain Detonator versions affecting 2D?
Should I just swap in a GeForce2 MX and move on?
Any low-level VGA or registry tweaks to force proper 2D acceleration?

Appreciate any help or insight!

Pentium III 450MHz, ECS P6BAT-A+ (VIA Apollo Pro), Asus Riva TNT2, 384MB SDRAM, CMI8338, 20GB Quantum Fireball Plus QMP20000AS-A

Reply 1 of 9, by mockingbird

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kickarse wrote on 2025-05-23, 23:04:

Switching Windows to 32-bit color causes screen tearing when closing or moving windows (visible redraw "tearing" effect). This doesn’t happen in 16-bit mode. I get it that TNT2 Pro is not ideal for 32 bit, but I had one of those back in the day (the entire system is a part-perfect replica), and I don't remember ever having those GUI issues with 32 bit color?

This is very suspect, and it is a good place to start from. Since this symptom is present with both cards, I would move on to the other parts of the PC. I don't have any experience with Via Apollo, only with the KT133A (and newer AMD chipsets).

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(Decommissioned:)
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Reply 2 of 9, by theelf

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Mani have some slowdown problems.in VisualBoyAdvance even in a athlon 1.2ghz

Reply 3 of 9, by kickarse

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Yup, I'm quite open to being in the wrong here, but if I remember correctly, I was able to enjoy decent speed with VBA emulation and no screen tearing in Windows when I had this system in the early 2000s. Is my memory at fault here, does anyone else have issues like that per chance? And it's also particularly confusing due to the mixed bag nature of the issue - some apps/games work well, others do not. Out of my more recent tests, Starcraft works perfectly well (no wonder, this ran even on a wind-powered potato back then), but I am seeing framerate issues with Winamp Milkdrop visualizations for example - the framerate in there is more or less stable at what feels like 15ish FPS.

Pentium III 450MHz, ECS P6BAT-A+ (VIA Apollo Pro), Asus Riva TNT2, 384MB SDRAM, CMI8338, 20GB Quantum Fireball Plus QMP20000AS-A

Reply 4 of 9, by MikeSG

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I don't think it's too far outside the performance of a TNT2 at 1024 x 768 x 32-bit. Could try the latest drivers 71.84 from Nvidia's website: https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/

Motherboard drivers might have an updated agp driver.

A Geforce2 Mx should be much faster (1.5-2x) if you need it to be faster

Reply 5 of 9, by devius

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You should try even older nVidia drivers, like 8.05, 6.18 or even 3.68. If that doesn't solve it, then you're probably remembering incorrectly. I also remember Doom being super smooth on my 486DX2 66MHz, but playing it now on the same specs it's actually more like 15 to 20fps 😆

Reply 6 of 9, by kickarse

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Gotcha, thank you for the input guys! Funny thing, I also remember Doom being quite smooth on a 486, so I guess you have a point. 😁

I am going to test with earlier nvidia drivers and will post how that goes. I've also had plans to play around with a Geforce MX too (and generally explore what upgrading this PC would like, just for fun) - I see some options on local marketplaces as cheap as $5, so why not.

Pentium III 450MHz, ECS P6BAT-A+ (VIA Apollo Pro), Asus Riva TNT2, 384MB SDRAM, CMI8338, 20GB Quantum Fireball Plus QMP20000AS-A

Reply 7 of 9, by scj312

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I used to daily drive a TNT2 M64 for years before upgrading to an FX 5200. I always used 32-bit mode in Windows and performance was great. I was using it on a 440BX system though, which might have behaved differently from a VIA.

Reply 8 of 9, by kickarse

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Tried installing an older driver today - version 6.31c - this time using the one still available from the official ASUS website. Aside from a minor bump in 3DMark scores (nice to see), all the other issues persist.
Sigh.

My GeForce2 MX is arriving later this week, so we’ll see if that helps. If not, the next steps will likely be a CPU upgrade and a clean Windows reinstall.

Also starting to suspect that the “Unofficial Service Pack 3” that I have from Phil’s site might be playing a role here. It’s a great package, but it is enthusiast-grade, and I’m wondering if it messes with Windows GDI in 32-bit color mode - especially when paired with certain hardware. The screen tearing issues in particular.

Pentium III 450MHz, ECS P6BAT-A+ (VIA Apollo Pro), Asus Riva TNT2, 384MB SDRAM, CMI8338, 20GB Quantum Fireball Plus QMP20000AS-A

Reply 9 of 9, by devius

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I tried the unofficial SP3 but didn't really like the end result. It ended up messing up a few things, like languages in some programs, and overall the experience just felt buggier than before. I had the Portuguese version of Win98, so that could also be the issue, but I'm sticking to vanilla Win98 or Win98 S.E. and just installing any patches that I need now.