Blavius wrote on 2025-06-17, 14:23:

My laptop is pretty old and I can't upgrade to Windows 11, so I moved to Kubuntu a couple of months ago. I am very much a 'compu […]
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My laptop is pretty old and I can't upgrade to Windows 11, so I moved to Kubuntu a couple of months ago. I am very much a 'computer person' so I thought this would be a reasonably easy switch, even as a linux noob. It wasn't. There is always this emphasis on the install, and indeed, that was very slick. Everything worked out of the box. But then you have to use it.

Example:
There is this thing 'Discover' that looks like an app store, and when I install something with that it appears in the start menu - great! Only problem is that half of the stuff I want isn't in there. Well, let's get an installer directly from the website then! So - I can download all kinds of files - some are kind of installers, some just run the program. There are instructions to install via the command line with apt that don't work because the repository is too old or not for my kernel, or some other piece is missing that is its own whole story to track down. None of it puts a shortcut in the start menu. There is no option in the start menu to add anything that isn't put there by discover. How do I even run the thing I just installed? How do I un-install it?

Now-all of these things are solvable, but none of it is intuitive. I have to do a web search and land on some ubuntu forum that says I have to edit some config file 10 layers deep. And yes, it works, but three weeks later I have to to the same thing and of course I forgot where to find the file, or what kind of hermetic language to use. So every time I have to do anything but use the machine, I have to go and find some forum post. It's such a waste of time.

I'm sure this is laughable for a lot of you guru's, but from the perspective of a new user this stuff is so opaque. It really gets in the way of using the OS to just run stuff.

i understand it totally. I like and use Linux Mint on a couple of older machines and it installed well, even recognising all hardware. If i only use the default OS and software its fine - keeps itself updated (incessantly) and mostly intuitive interface.

but then, now and then, i might try something not handled in the software manager or hit a dependency and soon enough, like you, i'm 10 layers deep with various terse forums and how to's that may as well read "to do this you just dkjf /--jmsd87 /kjjghd ./ ff6" (never explaining why, its just endless commands)

so basically, left as vanilla with a few installs managed through the interface: pretty good. Anything too unusual: its obscure commands that don't quite work all the way down

Edit: Reply to Namrok
Ah, well Minecraft for example, was easy to install, but outside of discover so no icon. Or the VPN I use that is an AppImage - making a shortcut to that was also difficult. Maybe I'm using the wrong launcher or software manager. But you're kind of illustrating my point; there is apt, flatpack, .deb, AppImage and god knows what else. Why the hell all these different things? I can kind of deal with this, but I don't see my wife putting up with it - she gets a new pc with windows 11.

Blavius wrote on 2025-06-17, 14:23:

I am very much a 'computer person' so I thought this would be a reasonably easy switch, even as a linux noob. It wasn't. There is always this emphasis on the install, and indeed, that was very slick. Everything worked out of the box. But then you have to use it.

Very simple solution: Don't use Ubuntu.

Grunt wrote on 2025-06-17, 15:34:

Very simple solution: Don't use Ubuntu.

I would follow your advice, if I were a rational person.

Blavius wrote on 2025-06-17, 15:10:

Edit: Reply to Namrok
Ah, well Minecraft for example, was easy to install, but outside of discover so no icon. Or the VPN I use that is an AppImage - making a shortcut to that was also difficult. Maybe I'm using the wrong launcher or software manager. But you're kind of illustrating my point; there is apt, flatpack, .deb, AppImage and god knows what else. Why the hell all these different things? I can kind of deal with this, but I don't see my wife putting up with it - she gets a new pc with windows 11.

Fascinating. I installed Minecraft from the .deb file on their website. Worked just fine and showed up in my "start" menu. I also installed my VPN (nord) using the install script on their website. Showed up on my "start" menu and auto connects as soon as my PC starts. Lacks a bunch of features it's windows version has though. No split tunneling which I use a little bit.

I've had pretty good luck just deciding, when in doubt, go to the applications website and see what they say. I have found that often whatever is in the Software Manager is not what you actually want. It's out of date, maintained by 3rd parties, or some other nonsense. It does get frustrating.

Blavius wrote on 2025-06-17, 15:44:

Grunt wrote on 2025-06-17, 15:34:

Very simple solution: Don't use Ubuntu.

I would follow your advice, if I were a rational person.

Real answer:

Dont use unity WM. It wants very much to be macos, but not, and win11 but not.

It's just awful, with no redeeming qualities.

Use xubuntu with xfce4 instead.

dr_st wrote on 2025-06-16, 22:01:

Too late?
Like, if you don't download the ISO now - then in October it will be gone FROM ALL TEH INTERNETS???

Haha, that reminds me of how most Germans go nuts buying groceries when there's a holiday before or after a weekend. Better buy 10 tons of groceries because the supermarkets will NEVER OPEN AGAIN! ETERNAL ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE FOREVER!🔥🤪

gerry wrote on 2025-06-17, 15:07:

i understand it totally. I like and use Linux Mint on a couple of older machines and it installed well, even recognising all hardware. If i only use the default OS and software its fine - keeps itself updated (incessantly) and mostly intuitive interface.

but then, now and then, i might try something not handled in the software manager or hit a dependency and soon enough, like you, i'm 10 layers deep with various terse forums and how to's that may as well read "to do this you just dkjf /--jmsd87 /kjjghd ./ ff6" (never explaining why, its just endless commands)

In the late 2010s, I used a KDE-based distro for pretty much everything (it was a dual-boot setup with the default preinstalled Win8 left for gaming, I just got tired of the endless update fails that Win8 fed to me). It's a bit obscure and the devs have tightened a lot of screws by default, limiting the user's ability to flunk something by accident (since there is a commercial version of the distro marketed to gov't institutions and stuff). I used their forums -- they prefer old-fashioned mailing lists for communication, but thankfully answer through forums as well -- and most of the time I could get help or at least find the solution among older posts. Indeed many times the solution was grep something or other followed by more commands. I believe this can be learned if you are really into this, I'm just a guy who wants to use the system. I don't remember a single time I was unable to get around to find the solution, even if it involved typing some arcane commands with scarcely knowing what you're actually doing.

Anyway, after I figured out how to make Wine actually run Windows programmes by double-clicking (the feature that was disabled by default, because what if the user installs something they shouldn't?), I found it very handy to just use a lot of my familiar Windows tools via Wine instead of bothering with whatever was available natively. I had a very good flow with this and only occasionally booted into Windows to play StarCraft II, because support for my NVIDIA GPU was somehow broken under the distro. Aside from that, it worked just fine for my needs.

Overall, Mint LDME6 just works.

Stesch wrote on 2025-06-17, 18:23:

dr_st wrote on 2025-06-16, 22:01:

Too late?
Like, if you don't download the ISO now - then in October it will be gone FROM ALL TEH INTERNETS???

Haha, that reminds me of how most Germans go nuts buying groceries when there's a holiday before or after a weekend. Better buy 10 tons of groceries because the supermarkets will NEVER OPEN AGAIN! ETERNAL ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE FOREVER!🔥🤪

Well, I would prefer to have a Good ISO of Win-1o directly from Microsoft than to try to find one on the internet later.
Also you can get the latest build 22h2 in 32-bit and 64-b it.

I saved it on my Backup drive incase I would ever need it in the future.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2025-06-18, 14:54:

Well, I would prefer to have a Good ISO of Win-1o directly from Microsoft than to try to find one on the internet later. Also yo […]
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Stesch wrote on 2025-06-17, 18:23:

dr_st wrote on 2025-06-16, 22:01:

Too late?
Like, if you don't download the ISO now - then in October it will be gone FROM ALL TEH INTERNETS???

Haha, that reminds me of how most Germans go nuts buying groceries when there's a holiday before or after a weekend. Better buy 10 tons of groceries because the supermarkets will NEVER OPEN AGAIN! ETERNAL ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE FOREVER!🔥🤪

Well, I would prefer to have a Good ISO of Win-1o directly from Microsoft than to try to find one on the internet later.
Also you can get the latest build 22h2 in 32-bit and 64-b it.

I saved it on my Backup drive incase I would ever need it in the future.

Nothing wrong with that, better be safe than sorry. But my guess is that it won't be too hard getting a Windows 10 ISO even many years after the official EOL date, just like you can still get Windows 7 or XP ISO files online. At least if Microsoft doesn't shift into the next gear and start consistently sealing the sources...

Blavius: Hey, I mean it seriously. I'll give you an example. I don't consider myself novice in this area but rather power user. For my development I need to test different distributions and for this purpose I use MMC (it is fast and reliable, simple switch of mmc and reboot just like in old floppy days). In order not to destroy flash memory right away it is good idea to install root on f2fs. First this was possible only on ArchLinux and VoidLinux (support for exotic file-system is built-in right inside installer), later every major distribution added support for f2fs (as root device), heck even Debian installer has some experimental module for f2fs AFAIK.

Not Ubuntu. The bug-report was hanging in Launchpad for over 11 years and then it was closed with "Won't Fix". And this is just one example. There is always some Ubuntu specific problem and Ubuntu specific solution. And unless solved in mainstream, it won't be developed inside Ubuntu ecosystem. Unfortunately most Linux user-friendly distributions skins are based on Ubuntu.

My advice: OK, use Ubuntu but be aware there are other distributions (not based on Ubuntu), other solutions and at least try to touch them (I don't know, try to compile something on Arch or whatever). Next to your main OS, next to the Ubuntu. Don't get stuck inside Ubuntu because you'll grow sooner or later frustrated by it (as had happened to me in the past). And GNU/Linux ≠Ubuntu.

dr_st wrote on 2025-05-16, 07:44:

Any OS will be faster with an SSD, because random access on a mechanical drive is a major bottleneck. However, Windows 10 (possibly also 😎 somehow (and don't ask me about details) have their standard system services and background flows heavily optimized towards random access of the storage, which makes the difference huge. I never had a satisfactory experience on any system with Win10 and a mechanical drive, and yet my old desktop which started with Vista and now has Windows 7 is still somewhat OK, even with the system drive being a 10-year old 7200RPM HDD.

I read "optimized towards random access of the storage" as not optimized.

Grunt wrote on 2025-06-21, 15:46:

My advice: OK, use Ubuntu but be aware there are other distributions (not based on Ubuntu), other solutions and at least try to touch them (I don't know, try to compile something on Arch or whatever). Next to your main OS, next to the Ubuntu. Don't get stuck inside Ubuntu because you'll grow sooner or later frustrated by it (as had happened to me in the past). And GNU/Linux ≠Ubuntu.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I would love to try out some other Linux flavors as I'm clearly not too happy with this one.
My original point however was to illustrate that it is non-trivial to move to Linux instead of upgrading to windows 11. I would love to be that person that compiles things in Arch, but from my side the learning curve looks daunting. This tread did however plant a seed, to the point where I'll be digging up an old i3 laptop to try some distros 😀

Blavius: Yes. You need to know at least something about computer. Windows is updated more or less automatically (is one button click). And yet:

Over half of regular Windows user-base is still waiting for something. Or leaving slowly.

Good news,
You can now get FREE win-10 security updates until October 2026 if you backup your Windows settings or have Microsoft reward points.

They'll keep backtracking.

Eventually they will announce automatic updates to 11 on "unsupported hardware". Probably with a watermark. Who knows? Maybe they'll reduce the features to win 10 level (remove bloat).

They simply don't want the horrible press that comes with another code red or similar.

Reality is, about 60% of the planet live hand to mouth. Any computer they have is going to be repaired until it is irreparable.

Microsoft wants them to be experienced with only their software lest they broadly adopt Linux, and therefore eventually their governments, schools, and businesses adopt Linux.

The work required for security patches of older chips isn't that bad.

They would know the metrics better, but I suspect they will officially support as far back as 3rd gen core. Ie those 20$ lga 2011 xeons and 3060k etc.

Free 1 year, just sell them your soul, or sell them your soul and go w11

Matth79 wrote on Today, 13:03:

Free 1 year, just sell them your soul, or sell them your soul and go w11

Actually Microsoft has more Soul Music today than before. Microsoft Windows now has the “iTunes app” and Apple MacOS no longer has the iTunes app.

At least now you have one more year to build a NEW PC before you upgrade. Knowing the average Intel/AMD PC costs around $1000 o $2500 to build. A laptop cost about $800
If you have a family of 4 or more this can get expensive as everyone today has their own Laptop and Cell phone.
Hopefully the PC component prices will come down some especially on the graphics cards.
And then you had the closure of all the “brick and mortar” stores that supplied computers.

I went Bazzite and it's been amazing I have used windows in quite awhile. It's been rock solid the whole time and it keeps getting better.