sharangad wrote on 2025-06-20, 04:28:

riplin wrote on 2025-06-20, 04:13:

I’m sorry if this has been discussed already, I haven’t read through all 25 pages of this thread, but is there any register level programming documentation (official or unofficial) out there on EAX capable cards?

The open-source kx project has drivers for the Live/Audigy and EMU APS (all EMU 10k and derivatives). It also let's you program the chip directly for custom audio effects. The hardware accelerated EAX implementation in these drivers is a bit subpar, but the reigster level details should be all there.

Oh, that’s awesome! I’ll go give that a look!

riplin wrote on 2025-06-20, 09:11:

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-20, 04:28:

riplin wrote on 2025-06-20, 04:13:

I’m sorry if this has been discussed already, I haven’t read through all 25 pages of this thread, but is there any register level programming documentation (official or unofficial) out there on EAX capable cards?

The open-source kx project has drivers for the Live/Audigy and EMU APS (all EMU 10k and derivatives). It also let's you program the chip directly for custom audio effects. The hardware accelerated EAX implementation in these drivers is a bit subpar, but the reigster level details should be all there.

Oh, that’s awesome! I’ll go give that a look!

Looks like development has stopped.

https://jorgan.info/base/k/kx_project.html

Source and driver binaries are on github:

https://github.com/kxproject

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-20, 04:28:

riplin wrote on 2025-06-20, 04:13:

I’m sorry if this has been discussed already, I haven’t read through all 25 pages of this thread, but is there any register level programming documentation (official or unofficial) out there on EAX capable cards?

The open-source kx project has drivers for the Live/Audigy and EMU APS (all EMU 10k and derivatives). It also let's you program the chip directly for custom audio effects. The hardware accelerated EAX implementation in these drivers is a bit subpar, but the reigster level details should be all there.

Sorry, but that's not it at all.
Previously, when trees were large, the performance of Pentium MMX was small.
All had to use DSP to write music and apply various effects, especially multi-channel ones.
Because the processor power was simply not enough.
kx project - driver "for poor musicians", who didn't have money for E-MU
It have nothing to do with games and EAX at all.
Starting with the fact that on SBlive! the rear DAC is better than the front one. And this driver swaps them.
P.S. X-Fi in music creation mode = E-MU.
Including control panel skin.

Does this remind you of anything?
P.P.S. Everything died when Creative nailed the E-MU line, offering to combine the functionality with X-Fi.
Considering the very dull analog input/output of X-Fi, this did not find support from musicians.
And effects through EMU DSP stopped being applied a long time ago, because they are also dull.
That's how it all ended 🙁

shevalier wrote on 2025-06-20, 14:02:

Sorry, but that's not it at all. Previously, when trees were large, the performance of Pentium MMX was small. All had to use DSP […]
Show full quote

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-20, 04:28:

riplin wrote on 2025-06-20, 04:13:

I’m sorry if this has been discussed already, I haven’t read through all 25 pages of this thread, but is there any register level programming documentation (official or unofficial) out there on EAX capable cards?

The open-source kx project has drivers for the Live/Audigy and EMU APS (all EMU 10k and derivatives). It also let's you program the chip directly for custom audio effects. The hardware accelerated EAX implementation in these drivers is a bit subpar, but the reigster level details should be all there.

Sorry, but that's not it at all.
Previously, when trees were large, the performance of Pentium MMX was small.
All had to use DSP to write music and apply various effects, especially multi-channel ones.
Because the processor power was simply not enough.
kx project - driver "for poor musicians", who didn't have money for E-MU
It have nothing to do with games and EAX at all.
Starting with the fact that on SBlive! the rear DAC is better than the front one. And this driver swaps them.
P.S. X-Fi in music creation mode = E-MU.
Including control panel skin.

Does this remind you of anything?
P.P.S. Everything died when Creative nailed the E-MU line, offering to combine the functionality with X-Fi.
Considering the very dull analog input/output of X-Fi, this did not find support from musicians.
And effects through EMU DSP stopped being applied a long time ago, because they are also dull.
That's how it all ended 🙁

I'm pretty sure the kx drivers can run eax games. I briefly tried them back around 2004. Games didn't work very well and I went back to the Creative ones.

Well there was a lot of excitement back then.

shevalier wrote on 2025-06-20, 14:02:

Sorry, but that's not it at all. Previously, when trees were large, the performance of Pentium MMX was small. All had to use DSP […]
Show full quote

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-20, 04:28:

riplin wrote on 2025-06-20, 04:13:

I’m sorry if this has been discussed already, I haven’t read through all 25 pages of this thread, but is there any register level programming documentation (official or unofficial) out there on EAX capable cards?

The open-source kx project has drivers for the Live/Audigy and EMU APS (all EMU 10k and derivatives). It also let's you program the chip directly for custom audio effects. The hardware accelerated EAX implementation in these drivers is a bit subpar, but the reigster level details should be all there.

Sorry, but that's not it at all.
Previously, when trees were large, the performance of Pentium MMX was small.
All had to use DSP to write music and apply various effects, especially multi-channel ones.
Because the processor power was simply not enough.
kx project - driver "for poor musicians", who didn't have money for E-MU
It have nothing to do with games and EAX at all.
Starting with the fact that on SBlive! the rear DAC is better than the front one. And this driver swaps them.
P.S. X-Fi in music creation mode = E-MU.
Including control panel skin.

Does this remind you of anything?
P.P.S. Everything died when Creative nailed the E-MU line, offering to combine the functionality with X-Fi.
Considering the very dull analog input/output of X-Fi, this did not find support from musicians.
And effects through EMU DSP stopped being applied a long time ago, because they are also dull.
That's how it all ended 🙁

The driver source might have all the register info though which might be useful.

shevalier wrote on 2025-06-20, 14:02:

https://dt7v1i9vyp3mf.cloudfront.net/styles/header/s3/imagelibrary/e/emuworkshop1-QStkfozZbmsyQokBHBj4pYW2F6UE8F3X.jpg Does this […]
Show full quote

Does this remind you of anything?
P.P.S. Everything died when Creative nailed the E-MU line, offering to combine the functionality with X-Fi.
Considering the very dull analog input/output of X-Fi, this did not find support from musicians.
And effects through EMU DSP stopped being applied a long time ago, because they are also dull.
That's how it all ended 🙁

I didn't know the X-Fi/Creative killed EMU's cards. I can remember that panel in the Audigy mode selector or whatever it was called.

BTW Does Thief Deadly Shadows sound correct here https://youtu.be/jyvefwtTx-o ?

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-21, 01:41:

BTW Does Thief Deadly Shadows sound correct here https://youtu.be/jyvefwtTx-o ?

It does, but there isn't much EAX use during the tutorial level, and that's by design due to the area layout. The first proper mission (End of the Bloodline) has a lot more EAX effects, once you enter the castle interior.

Also, make sure that all of the EAX checkboxes are ticked in the game's audio options. Specifically, you want to enable "Audio Hardware Mixing", "EAX Advanced HD" and "EAX Multiple Environments". Relevant article on Creative's old website.

Creative Labs wrote:

Discovering EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD in Thief: Deadly Shadows […]
Show full quote

Discovering EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD in Thief: Deadly Shadows

In Thief: Deadly Shadows you play Garrett, the master thief. Stealth is the key to the game, as you sneak past guards, pick locks and sneak into buildings. Audio plays an essential role in helping you avoid detection thanks to the cutting edge use of EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD. You will be able to detect not only the direction of nearby guards, but also hear environmental clues on their whereabouts.

EAX Technology implementation:

ADVANCED REVERBERATION: An echo effect designed to simulate the acoustics of the player's immediate surroundings. Example: When you are in a cave, echo is very apparent because the walls of the cave are hard. Hard surfaces reflect/reverberate more sound waves than soft surfaces.

MULTI-ENVIRONMENTS: EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD's Multi-Environment technology gives the ability to render multiple reverberation effects simultaneously in real-time. This is used to accurately reproduce the surroundings of the listener and the surroundings of the closest sound sources. With the Multi-Environment feature you will be able to hear the distinctive sounds of footsteps on cobbled stones or the voices reverberating from a narrow corridor, no matter where you are hiding!

3D AUDIO: The concept of 3D audio means that sound sources are located in the 3D space around the player. A sound source is an object in a virtual game world that produces sound. In Thief: Deadly Shadows, 3D Audio is useful in determining the direction of nearby guards.

There's also a developer interview which goes into even more detail. The levels where EAX is used particularly well are listed on page 2.

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-20, 17:19:

I'm pretty sure the kx drivers can run eax games. I briefly tried them back around 2004. Games didn't work very well and I went back to the Creative ones.

Well there was a lot of excitement back then.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120602141745/ht … php?language=en
Mission
The kX Project was born out of a perceived need to expand the possiblities for use by musicians of the kX-compatible soundcards, under new and emerging operating systems which no longer support the old VxD device driver model.

shevalier wrote on 2025-06-21, 05:11:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120602141745/ht … php?language=en Mission The kX Project was born out of a perceived need to expan […]
Show full quote

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-20, 17:19:

I'm pretty sure the kx drivers can run eax games. I briefly tried them back around 2004. Games didn't work very well and I went back to the Creative ones.

Well there was a lot of excitement back then.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120602141745/ht … php?language=en
Mission
The kX Project was born out of a perceived need to expand the possiblities for use by musicians of the kX-compatible soundcards, under new and emerging operating systems which no longer support the old VxD device driver model.

Ah, my bad.

The EAX Goldmine Demo runs really nicely:
https://youtu.be/lf4Ms6h91iA
https://youtu.be/cD-besM63fE

It's an OpenAL app. The graphics render correctly with dgVoodoo. The graphics don't render properly but the sound works really well. I tried running it in Win98 compatibility mode to see if it fixes the graphics. It doesn't detect OpenAL/EAX support then and exits.

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-21, 19:51:

The EAX Goldmine Demo runs really: https://youtu.be/cD-besM63fE

It's an OpenAL app. The graphics don't render properly but the sound works really well.

Yeah, it's a nice demo for Audigy cards, and it showcases EAX 3.0 features in full.

As for the graphics, try using a wrapper like dgVoodoo2 or something. Not sure if that will actually help, but it might be worth a shot.

Unreliability and flakiness of Audigy's software has made it easy for me to decide I WILL NOT continue to use it as a daily driver. EAX dies so often that I'd have to regularly reboot. When I tried to poke in with debugger, I ended up with this:

Guess I'm sticking with software based solutions.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-06-21, 19:59:

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-21, 19:51:

The EAX Goldmine Demo runs really: https://youtu.be/cD-besM63fE

It's an OpenAL app. The graphics don't render properly but the sound works really well.

Yeah, it's a nice demo for Audigy cards, and it showcases EAX 3.0 features in full.

As for the graphics, try using a wrapper like dgVoodoo2 or something. Not sure if that will actually help, but it might be worth a shot.

Renders perfectly with dgVoodoo! Updated video in link.

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-22, 13:01:

Renders perfectly with dgVoodoo! Updated video in link.

Looks good! I like how this demo shows the more subtle uses of EAX, especially for occlusion, obstruction and environmental morphing. It's not just "add a bunch of reverb and call it a day" as was the case with EAX 1.0.

BTW, Thief: Deadly Shadows uses all of the effects shown in this demo, as well as the EAX 4.0 specific ones, such as multiple environments.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-06-21, 02:29:

It does, but there isn't much EAX use during the tutorial level, and that's by design due to the area layout. The first proper m […]
Show full quote

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-21, 01:41:

BTW Does Thief Deadly Shadows sound correct here https://youtu.be/jyvefwtTx-o ?

It does, but there isn't much EAX use during the tutorial level, and that's by design due to the area layout. The first proper mission (End of the Bloodline) has a lot more EAX effects, once you enter the castle interior.

Also, make sure that all of the EAX checkboxes are ticked in the game's audio options. Specifically, you want to enable "Audio Hardware Mixing", "EAX Advanced HD" and "EAX Multiple Environments". Relevant article on Creative's old website.

Creative Labs wrote:

Discovering EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD in Thief: Deadly Shadows […]
Show full quote

Discovering EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD in Thief: Deadly Shadows

In Thief: Deadly Shadows you play Garrett, the master thief. Stealth is the key to the game, as you sneak past guards, pick locks and sneak into buildings. Audio plays an essential role in helping you avoid detection thanks to the cutting edge use of EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD. You will be able to detect not only the direction of nearby guards, but also hear environmental clues on their whereabouts.

EAX Technology implementation:

ADVANCED REVERBERATION: An echo effect designed to simulate the acoustics of the player's immediate surroundings. Example: When you are in a cave, echo is very apparent because the walls of the cave are hard. Hard surfaces reflect/reverberate more sound waves than soft surfaces.

MULTI-ENVIRONMENTS: EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD's Multi-Environment technology gives the ability to render multiple reverberation effects simultaneously in real-time. This is used to accurately reproduce the surroundings of the listener and the surroundings of the closest sound sources. With the Multi-Environment feature you will be able to hear the distinctive sounds of footsteps on cobbled stones or the voices reverberating from a narrow corridor, no matter where you are hiding!

3D AUDIO: The concept of 3D audio means that sound sources are located in the 3D space around the player. A sound source is an object in a virtual game world that produces sound. In Thief: Deadly Shadows, 3D Audio is useful in determining the direction of nearby guards.

There's also a developer interview which goes into even more detail. The levels where EAX is used particularly well are listed on page 2.

I can't pick the lock in the tutorial, so I'm pretty much stuck here. I'm at 60hz and have vsync enabled.

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-22, 13:38:

I can't pick the lock in the tutorial, so I'm pretty much stuck here. I'm at 60hz and have vsync enabled.

I don't think V-Sync works in Thief: Deadly Shadows when the game is played on Win10 or Win11. You may need to use dgVoodoo2 to run the game and enable it from there.

As I recall, lock picking will fail if the game is running at more than 60 FPS.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-06-22, 13:52:

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-22, 13:38:

I can't pick the lock in the tutorial, so I'm pretty much stuck here. I'm at 60hz and have vsync enabled.

I don't think V-Sync works in Thief: Deadly Shadows when the game is played on Win10 or Win11. You may need to use dgVoodoo2 to run the game and enable it through there.

As I recall, Lock picking will fail if the game is running at more than 60 FPS.

I'll give that a go later.

Some interesting discussion around GTA: San Andreas: https://github.com/kcat/dsoal/issues/110

Looks like EAX is partially broken in that game, implemented in certain areas, but not really working. ReverbSA manages to restore EAX effects to areas where it wasn't audible previously. Out-of-box unmodified game, I'm only certain of underwater reverb. The warehouse you go to in mission Robbing Uncle Sam, the underground subway area in Los Santos, no EAX without ReverbSA. Interestingly, the plugin doesn't change EAXless areas if you force it to use ALchemy with Creative's OpenAL, only works with DSOAL + OpenAL Soft. There's no difference I can tell between EAX on Windows XP and EAX on Windows 11 with ALchemy.

TBH, playing the game for a good while, I prefer the way it sounds on headphones with OpenAL Soft. HRTF you can setup with OpenAL Soft doesn't mess with the music as badly as CMSS.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-06-22, 13:16:

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-22, 13:01:

Renders perfectly with dgVoodoo! Updated video in link.

BTW, Thief: Deadly Shadows uses all of the effects shown in this demo, as well as the EAX 4.0 specific ones, such as multiple environments.

Thief Deadly Shadows: https://youtu.be/ysQAg3RkIv8

After the initial bit there's half an hour's playthrough of the first proper map (Castle mission) with a lot of reloading.

sharangad wrote on 2025-06-23, 00:34:

Thief Deadly Shadows: https://youtu.be/ysQAg3RkIv8

After the initial bit there's half an hour's playthrough of the first proper map (Castle mission) with a lot of reloading.

Stealth games usually benefit a lot from EAX. It's easier to pinpoint the movement of the guards due to the enhanced 3D sound positioning and the proper use of occlusion/obstruction. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory is another good example of this.

BTW, you can disable the dgVoodoo watermark by unticking the relevant checkbox on its DirectX tab.