At this point my bottleneck in development is trying to convince my Athlon XP machine to detect my graphics card in Windows NT 4. Specifically on this steaming pile of cheap garbage: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/ecs-k7vta3-6.0
This is copy and paste from GitHub (no other posts are planned as I'm too busy already. as I am trying to rework or port every educational game down to NT 4 and windows 11 today.
This game is in Direct3d 7 for nt 4. I'm showing proof that it does indeed work. this is without any wrappers or FunkyFr3sh / cnc-ddraw. according to the Scooby phantom debug logs
[scooby.log](https://github.com/user-attachments/files/208 … 5757/scooby.log)
(0x63) 734 : Creating Game Renderer Direct3D 7
However, they are a despite if it's really Direct3d 7, same are saying it's direct3d (software rendering) (whish I'm not sure if it's real)
although Microsoft does clam Direct8a does have Direct3d software rendering? so unknown.
old comment from github
[DxDiag.txt](https://github.com/user-attachments/files/208 … 3119/DxDiag.txt)
That is interesting I didn't realize there was another community for NT 4. [NT4dx9.zip](https://github.com/user-attachments/files/204 … 3844/NT4dx9.zip) This is 95% are native ports from Windows XP or 2000, it is modern DirectX except for d3d8.dll and d3d9.dll which I used SwiftShader (although someone as ported it and now sure how it's down). An abandoned old version 2.01. not the Google version., The last was Wack0 for the ddraw.dll from DirectX 7 I did not use d3dim700.dll from Wack0 due to computability issues with Scooby-doo the glowing Bugman by TLC it is native Direct3d 7 fully working without wrappers or emulators even others. Other than that, it was fully backported, even DXdiag, which helped me hint down native DirectX. I need to find a way how to make an installer, as I got many emails, even yesterday, that my method is really difficult. I will need to investigate.
Modern DirectX up to 8, that is fully not a lie, I have to compromise with some wrappers at the end, but 95% are modern DirectX.
I even added native DirectX 9 except d3d9.dll due to compromises. dxdx9_24 to 32 are all fully native. Under Windows NT 4.
By any means, please improve my code or use it again I am not a programmer, but I did get a lot of help, if I had known 4 years ago that the Vogens community existed, I would come to your forums other than or myself being self-taught, for that thinks for the tip.
This will be my last response for a while, I'm on my mouth vacation, although I'm still getting emails that I'm reading.
Windows 9x ME in my opinion is the most stable, however, it is not Windows NT 4. https://github.com/FunkyFr3sh/cnc-ddraw/issue … ment-2527306699. This link is dated however it explains my stance with nt 4. even other things.
MicahMoo11 wrote on 2025-06-24, 05:31:This is copy and paste from GitHub (no other posts are planned as I'm too busy already. as I am trying to rework or port every e […]
This is copy and paste from GitHub (no other posts are planned as I'm too busy already. as I am trying to rework or port every educational game down to NT 4 and windows 11 today.
This game is in Direct3d 7 for nt 4. I'm showing proof that it does indeed work. this is without any wrappers or FunkyFr3sh / cnc-ddraw. according to the Scooby phantom debug logs
[scooby.log](https://github.com/user-attachments/files/208 … 5757/scooby.log)
(0x63) 734 : Creating Game Renderer Direct3D 7
However, they are a despite if it's really Direct3d 7, same are saying it's direct3d (software rendering) (whish I'm not sure if it's real)
although Microsoft does clam Direct8a does have Direct3d software rendering? so unknown.old comment from github
[DxDiag.txt](https://github.com/user-attachments/files/208 … 3119/DxDiag.txt)
That is interesting I didn't realize there was another community for NT 4. [NT4dx9.zip](https://github.com/user-attachments/files/204 … 3844/NT4dx9.zip) This is 95% are native ports from Windows XP or 2000, it is modern DirectX except for d3d8.dll and d3d9.dll which I used SwiftShader (although someone as ported it and now sure how it's down). An abandoned old version 2.01. not the Google version., The last was Wack0 for the ddraw.dll from DirectX 7 I did not use d3dim700.dll from Wack0 due to computability issues with Scooby-doo the glowing Bugman by TLC it is native Direct3d 7 fully working without wrappers or emulators even others. Other than that, it was fully backported, even DXdiag, which helped me hint down native DirectX. I need to find a way how to make an installer, as I got many emails, even yesterday, that my method is really difficult. I will need to investigate.
Modern DirectX up to 8, that is fully not a lie, I have to compromise with some wrappers at the end, but 95% are modern DirectX.
I even added native DirectX 9 except d3d9.dll due to compromises. dxdx9_24 to 32 are all fully native. Under Windows NT 4.By any means, please improve my code or use it again I am not a programmer, but I did get a lot of help, if I had known 4 years ago that the Vogens community existed, I would come to your forums other than or myself being self-taught, for that thinks for the tip.
This will be my last response for a while, I'm on my mouth vacation, although I'm still getting emails that I'm reading.
Windows 9x ME in my opinion is the most stable, however, it is not Windows NT 4. https://github.com/FunkyFr3sh/cnc-ddraw/issue … ment-2527306699. This link is dated however it explains my stance with nt 4. even other things.
These are way bater examples for DirectX 7 games working. unlike Scooby phantom they are a despite for it.
Iv been playing this for an hour, again no wrappers or emulates. it just works as is.
Was someone brave enough to test some of these 3 DirectX NT4 projects or its willing to do it in the near future?
We have 2 of 3 authors of these wrappers able to interact in this discussion, there would not be much better situation..
1) NT4dx8 - https://github.com/orgs/LegacyUpdate/discussi … cussion-8290925
2) Reuse of DX NT implementation (its Power PC NT version, its ported to x86) from Windows NT for Gamecube / Wii - DirectX7 port for Windows NT4 - https://github.com/Wack0/entii-for-workcubes/ … ment-2881348902
3) DXGL - backport to Windows NT 4 - https://forum.dxgl.info/viewtopic.php?p=3200#p3200 so far Limited only to OpenGL 2.0, unless someone would be willing back port it to OpenGL 1.x => not yet released it would be released soon
You can test in on :
1) real NT machines - NT can run virtually on everything Pentium 1+, only problems are compatible Videocards - 3Dfx or Nvidia Geforce up to Geforce 6600, Matrox G200 -G450 (or G550), some ATI cards with 3D support under NT (lots of newer ones seems not have Working OpenGL / D3D support, or its somehow bugged, unfinished from my experience). There some workstation 3D modeling ATI cards with proven NT compatibility, for Nvidia there would be probably some Quadros working too, or you can use old trick and install Geforce driver for Quadro - you can find usually through TechpowerPC Videocards specs + GPU-Z and others Geforce cards with same specs, best is simply click on GPU architecture name - you will get list of cards using same chip, like this: https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/?archit … sort=generation
Yeah there is problem with sound - im not aware so far any NT4 compatible PCI-E / USB soundcard, so you need some onboard card or PCI one, or old machine with ISA slots.
2) 86Box NT4 machine, with 3Dfx Banshee or Voodoo 3
3) Linux / Unraid / Proxmox /Vmware ESX machine with compatible Videocard (above) KVM passthrough.
4) Last resort - limited, still better than nothing Vmware, Virtualbox and wrappers like SwiftShader..
Why its simple Windows NT is quite nice OS, so far worse from point of modern retro support, but in some ways its superior to Windows 9x, its much more stable and can use multiple CPU / cores and by default its able to use lots of RAM without any unofficial patching, networking is more robust, for some HW exists NT4 drive, but not Win9x etc. Missing DirectX 5+ (Direct3D) support + not existing simple fake Windows version utility - for Windows 9x / 2000, are main major blockers to make it really nice for retro gaming.
In lots of field as Windows enhancing utilities compatibility etc there is lots things to research, is sort of the last of conquered Windows version able to run 3D games (from my point older windows version Win 1.00 to Win 3.11 are obsolete, Dos was usually better for gaming).
Of course if some tester would have some related development skills its always better, so far description of lots these tools functionality and way how to make them working, is quite cryptic at least for me, so if someone could make some fastforwarding guide it would help too.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.
I have created Google sheet for adding testing results for individual DirectX wrappers:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X7rYB … dit?usp=sharing
You can ask for editing rights through Google docs API, i will get notification on my phone i will try to confirm it as soon as possible.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.
Some updates:
1) Windows 95 faking utility for NT, to increase games and programs compatibility.
It turns out that as nobody care too much about Windows NT, there is Window 95 fooling utility right from Microsoft on installation CDs, so it means probably that suppport would not be entirely bad - i have to test it, but there is at least report that it can make Virtual Figher 2 demo working . Its called setwin95. and its utility imagecfg.exe utility - its in SUPPORT\DEBUG\I386\ directory. , there SETNT351.cmd too to fake olde NT version. More info: https://web.archive.org/web/20010412103251/ht … s/setwin95.html
2) How enable joystick, probably gamepad too support on Windows NT:
Enable Joystick support for NT4 - https://web.archive.org/web/20010412101307/ht … s/joystick.html
[/list]
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.
Ok people great news we have now DirectX 9 for NT4 testing, copy paste from Github:
https://github.com/orgs/LegacyUpdate/discussi … ncomment-136590
MicahMoo11:
This version should now fully work and install without issue on NT 4. However, if a game uses dplayx.dll (like the Girl Talk PC […]
This version should now fully work and install without issue on NT 4. However, if a game uses dplayx.dll (like the Girl Talk PC game video game), it will fail as hacking files from dplay have been removed in Windows XP. Functionality is not guaranteed.
Also, some games may not work with winmm.dll from NT 4, as it might crash due to a lack of APIs. DirectX 8 side components will be a lot more unstable, due to mixing 2000’s APIs or stubs being removed. The same games will run; it just won't be as stable.
In this release, wick0 source is still intact even MSIMG32.DLL = 79790000, which is quite important for games. ddraw.dll video formats have been removed. The installer may fail if any game is running or Internet Explorer is running, depending on how it was integrated.
Hid.dll is still here; however, dependency is relying on outdated NT 4 technology, so it might not work with DirectX 9 games.
This will be my last NT4dx9 Lite planned to be released, as going forward I hope wick0 can fix up the original NT4dx9, as that is what we need to do—not go back to old 1996 technology. That is, to me, going backwards. I hope more users test.
Download:
https://mega.nz/file/gcoEWSRb#gTBEK5Yr5l8ESuj … YgyF2BP6FRAmahM // Its too big to attach it (20MB).
We have already 55 Windows 9x games tested, the are mostly working at least with some Win NT4 setup, info is here:
https://mega.nz/file/gcoEWSRb#gTBEK5Yr5l8ESuj … YgyF2BP6FRAmahM
But we need more test on real machine, 86Box/PCem etc.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X7rYB … dit?usp=sharing add your reports, i will give you rights within 24 hours, for meanwhile you can at least comment.
All import info its in 3 post above and in Hints&Notes sheet, including my 320 Windows 9x demos testing package its on archive.org too, in on my Mega, on some Vogons member ftp.. All links are summarized in this post: https://winraid.level1techs.com/t/windows-98s … 540/257?page=13
Of course i dont expect that all Windows 9x game will run, this package is nice starting package for testing, much quicker than install games from cds, or backporting from Gog etc.
I would have problem with NT4 install as here, also could ask here, if met some problem with nt4dx9lite you can also ask here on github link above.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.
I added Windows NT4 3D Graphics card compatibility matrix to NT4 to our modern DirectX implementation Google sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1X7rYB … dit?usp=sharing
There all card with at least some Direct3D or OpenGl support under Windows NT4, except some S3 Virge / Trio deaccelerator and my some Permedias and other rare cards.
I mainly did it, because there is maximal supported DirectX version which have sense to test windows Windows NT4 and to find out which Quadro cards have NT4 support and especially OpenGL 2.0 support for future DXGL testing, there are some are usually cheaper that Geforce cards and often is possible to find Geforce card with the same specs and force driver to use Geforce driver / name for them.
If someone want to enhance the list-additional cards, or check if there are some errors, you can add comments right away or ask for full editing right and i will give them you as fast ask i will check my phone notification. If someone what add it some oomph you can add all bus - AGP,PCI/PCI-E column info, or card release dates, clock etc, TDP, Fill rates whatever, the most such data is Techpower up GPU DB (you have click on card name to get this detailed info - but for example NT4 support in their DB is incomplete), if not you can find them usually at - https://hw-museum.cz/ or https://www.vgamuseum.info/
Some are paper + research data, proven drivers inf - reality could be different, i did not test all these card physically in NT.
I also added only desktop cards, if someone want to add mobile (laptops) one is welcome.
Im old goal oriented goatman, i care about facts and freedom, not about egos+prejudices. Hoarding=sickness. If you want respect, gain it by your behavior. I hate stupid SW limits, SW=virtual world, everything should be possible if you have enough raw HW.
This is a Copy and paste from the Legacy Update except links
NT4dx9 lite https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dwHJrpHd8NYI … ?usp=drive_link
NT4dx9 https://drive.google.com/file/d/1H2f0vJC9e4ty … ?usp=drive_link
thus 2 above is based on the release https://github.com/orgs/LegacyUpdate/discussi … cussion-8290925
> What does exactly install from an offline environment.. Does it mean run this in some other Windows installation and target the Windows NT partition?
Yes, that is correct; that is the only way to ensure proper functionality of Windows XP, all the way down to NT 4.
> It's a simple copy of files to the Windows and System32 directory?
Update July 6. 12:21 AM
If you want this, you need the new NT4dx9 Lite, which I released to Win NT4 2024+ guide\setup+ WIP +research ; Unofficial DirectX enhancers/wrappers (We have DirectX 9!) (testers needed). However, this only has 80% Windows XP functionality. Even then, it will be very broken. Strongly advised to install ESU updates which are not available under https://www.windowsupdaterestored.com/. But available here at https://archive.org/details/wnt40-upd. This new NT4dx9 Lite for your average person should, in theory, work even without ESU updates. as minimal is still SP6a & IE6. But it will conflict with software, games, even strange NT 4 errors, that can't be fixed by normal means as it is already becoming incompatible. Yes, NT 4 will at least boot, but even with this, it has to be used with experienced users. Your copy of NT4dx9.Lite-DirectX9forWindowsNT4.zip is the last save of DirectX for all users. The new NT4dx9 Lite might go wrong. Sadly, they are no possible way without forcing 2000 & XP APIs under NT 4 that wack0 is already doing with ddraw.dll with pre SP3 systems.
This is why I never intended to make another Lite as this NT4dx9.zip is targeting Windows XP (not Windows 2000).
OK. Please clarify something for me. As far as I understand, OpenGL was the only API that could expose hardware-accelerated 3D capabilities on Windows NT4.
So if you want to get Direct3D working on NT4, the only options would be to have it work with software rendering, or to have it work on top of OpenGL through the use of some kind of wrapper.
Wouldn't the latter (a wrapper-based solution) always be preferable? Even if you were to run NT4 on a very powerful recent PC, the software rendering implementation in Direct3D (at least in DirectX 9 and lower) would still be limited in visual quality and effects, right?
