Reference Material
https://ftp.zx.net.nz/pub/Patches/ftp.microso … n-us/93/736.HTM

maxtherabbit wrote on 2024-12-16, 16:01:

Reference Material https://ftp.zx.net.nz/pub/Patches/ftp.microso … n-us/93/736.HTM […]
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Reference Material
https://ftp.zx.net.nz/pub/Patches/ftp.microso … n-us/93/736.HTM

The attachment wfw_networking.pdf is no longer available

The attachment AA-PET0A-TK_Pathworks_for_DOS_TCPIP_Users_Reference_V1.0_Jan91.pdf is no longer available

Great work!

Does your WfW 3.1 configuration work as is for WfW 3.11?
For reference, do you have a mem /c capture of this configuration?

I like the idea of having TCP/IP networking and file and print sharing available in both DOS 6.22 and WfW 3.11.

The first part is getting the functionality working. Also important is finding the optimal way to load the drivers/TSRs, so networking can be used in a practical way.
Banner Mania on a networked dot matrix printer might be interesting.

thisIsLoneWolf wrote on 2024-12-16, 17:02:

Great work! […]
Show full quote

maxtherabbit wrote on 2024-12-16, 16:01:

Reference Material https://ftp.zx.net.nz/pub/Patches/ftp.microso … n-us/93/736.HTM […]
Show full quote

Reference Material
https://ftp.zx.net.nz/pub/Patches/ftp.microso … n-us/93/736.HTM

The attachment wfw_networking.pdf is no longer available

The attachment AA-PET0A-TK_Pathworks_for_DOS_TCPIP_Users_Reference_V1.0_Jan91.pdf is no longer available

Great work!

Does your WfW 3.1 configuration work as is for WfW 3.11?
For reference, do you have a mem /c capture of this configuration?

I like the idea of having TCP/IP networking and file and print sharing available in both DOS 6.22 and WfW 3.11.

The first part is getting the functionality working. Also important is finding the optimal way to load the drivers/TSRs, so networking can be used in a practical way.
Banner Mania on a networked dot matrix printer might be interesting.

Here's the MEM /C for my config - including all the other crap I load for DOS

Regarding using 16bit TCP with WfW3.11, I'm pretty sure it should work the same way, but I have not tried it. Not sure how it would handle coexisting with 32bit TCP either. I would hope they could coexist the same way other NDIS2 and NDIS3 drivers can.

Fascinating...
I'm going to try it later this week.

Meanwhile...
So, for WfW 3.1, Microsoft recommends to use the TCP/IP from LAN Manager - why not from the "TCP/IP for Microsoft Windows for Workgroups diskette"?
Also, what's that "TCP/IP Utility pack"? Where to find it?

I'm not sure exactly what the utility diskette is. I can say that the final release of the lanman client as well as the Net Client 3.0 contain the same TCP stack. (The omission of UNLOADT in the client 3 notwithstanding)

This is a really useful guide, thanks for that! I do like how relatively simple Trumpet Winsock 1.0a is (with 1.0 beta 24 applied on top) to set up, but I'll have to give this a spin at some point and see what I can do with it.

So I'm confirming: WfW 3.1 indeed works with TCP/IP.

My installation procedure:

1. Microsoft Network Client version 3.0 for MS-DOS:
- TCP/IP instead of IPX
- everything else default, which includes full redirector
2. Windows for Workgroups 3.1:
- don't let it modify CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT
- everything else default, which includes NetBEUI
3. Editing CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT, as described by @maxtherabbit

Results:

- WORKGRP.SYS complains: "No NETBEUI section found in configuration information", but loads anyway
- Windows complains on startup:

You started the workgroup software for MS-DOS before you started Windows. To make more memory available to your applications and use the network components built into Windows for Workgroups instead, type NET STOP before starting Windows.
Do you want to display this message in the future?
[Yes] [No] [Help]

- "Connect Network Drive..." shows my Samba 4.7.1 server, and I can connect a shared directory
- "Share As..." also seems to work, I can list the shares from my modern Linux box:

1# smbclient -L pc486
2Enter WORKGROUP\user's password: 
3
4	Sharename       Type      Comment
5	---------       ----      -------
6	WINDOWS         Disk      
7	IPC$            IPC       Remote IPC
8Reconnecting with SMB1 for workgroup listing.
9
10	Server               Comment
11	---------            -------
12
13	Workgroup            Master
14	---------            -------

I can't mount them:

1# mount.cifs //pc486/windows /mnt/windows
2mount error: could not resolve address for pc486: Unknown error
3
4# mount.cifs //192.168.0.42/windows /mnt/windows
5Password for user@//192.168.0.42/windows:  
6mount error(112): Host is down
7Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g. man mount.cifs)

...but it doesn't work for WfW 3.11, either.

- in Standard mode, "Connect Network Drive..." still works, but there's no "Share As..." option

Grzyb wrote on 2024-12-23, 06:01:

Results:

- WORKGRP.SYS complains: "No NETBEUI section found in configuration information", but loads anyway

Yes this is expected and can be safely ignored as mentioned in the MS docs

Grzyb wrote on 2024-12-23, 06:01:

- Windows complains on startup:

You started the workgroup software for MS-DOS before you started Windows. To make more memory available to your applications and use the network components built into Windows for Workgroups instead, type NET STOP before starting Windows.
Do you want to display this message in the future?
[Yes] [No] [Help]

This one is new to me. I never saw this message when running the MS Net 3 redirector with WfW3.1. I can only assume it's coming from an enhanced mode driver. I'd suggest you use the NET.EXE shipped with WfW3.1 in lieu of the Net3 one. All you have to do is substitute the path in the command where you call NET START, everything else can be left as is. It will in fact save you some conventional memory as it says.

Grzyb wrote on 2024-12-23, 06:01:

- in Standard mode, "Connect Network Drive..." still works, but there's no "Share As..." option

Thanks for confirming my guess about sharing requiring enhanced mode is correct

maxtherabbit wrote on 2024-12-23, 12:35:

This one is new to me. I never saw this message when running the MS Net 3 redirector with WfW3.1. I can only assume it's coming from an enhanced mode driver. I'd suggest you use the NET.EXE shipped with WfW3.1 in lieu of the Net3 one. All you have to do is substitute the path in the command where you call NET START, everything else can be left as is. It will in fact save you some conventional memory as it says.

You're right - no such warning in Standard mode.
And no such warning after replacing "C:\NET\net start" with "C:\windows\net start".

"C:\windows\net start", however, displays: "Error 2182: The requested service has already been started.", and doesn't map network drives in DOS.

With "C:\NET\net start", in the "Show Shared Directories on:" window, I can only see the Samba server.
With "C:\windows\net start", I can see both the Samba server and the WfW machine.

On the CD of Windows NT 4.0 Server there are some clients in the CLIENTS directory:

1LANMAN
2LANMAN.OS2
3MSCLIENT
4RAS
5RPL
6SRVTOOLS
7SUPPORT
8TCP32WFW
9UPDATE.WFW
10WIN95

Grzyb wrote on 2024-12-23, 13:32:

"C:\windows\net start", however, displays: "Error 2182: The requested service has already been started.", and doesn't map network drives in DOS.

I cannot duplicate this, and it doesn't make sense. Are you saying you ran the command "NET START" for the first and only time at bootup and received this error?? Or do you have a "NET START" in AUTOEXEC.BAT and were then trying to run it again for some odd reason?

Perhaps you were looking for "NET LOGON"?

Below is my current config.
I didn't touch any of the PROTOCOL.INI files.

1device=C:\dos\HIMEM.SYS
2DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
3DOS=HIGH,UMB
4STACKS=9,256
5FILES=40
6LASTDRIVE=f
7device=C:\NET\ifshlp.sys
8device=c:\net\protman.dos /i:c:\net
9device=c:\net\nemm.dos
10device=c:\net\tcpdrv.dos /i:c:\net
11device=c:\windows\workgrp.sys
12device=c:\net\elnk3.dos

1@echo off
2rem C:\NET\net initialize
3set path=c:\windows;c:\dos;c:\bin;c:\vc;c:\mtcp;c:\bp\bin
4PATH C:\NET;C:\NU;%PATH%
5SET SYMANTEC=C:\SYMANTEC
6SET NU=C:\NU
7set mtcpcfg=c:\mtcp\mtcp.cfg
8set TZ=CET-1CEST-2,M3.5.0/02:00:00,M10.5.0/03:00:00
9set tmp=c:\tmp
10set temp=c:\tmp
11rem Hehe, how do you think I can make a screenshot of AUTOEXEC.BAT ?
12cd pzp
13pzp
14cd \
15cls
16C:\NET\netbind.com
17C:\NET\umb.com
18C:\NET\tcptsr.exe
19C:\NET\tinyrfc.exe
20C:\NET\nmtsr.exe
21C:\NET\emsbfr.exe
22C:\windows\net start

Perhaps it has something to do with the commands I entered right after DOS Client installation:

net use d: \\server\download
net use e: \\server\upload

It makes "c:\net\net start" map the drives every time.

After replacing "c:\net\net start" with "c:\windows\net start", the drives are no longer mapped.
I can map them with "c:\windows\net use ...", but it starts the WORKSTATION service, which brings back the warning on starting WfW.

Jo22 wrote on 2024-12-02, 12:17:

It was just called "TCP/IP for Microsoft Windows for Workgroups". An evidence can be found here in this MS Knowledge Base articl […]
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Grzyb wrote on 2023-11-05, 23:35:

Jo22 wrote on 2023-11-05, 23:26:

Still, I *believe* there was a TCP/IP stack for WfW 3.10 at some point. Not sure if it was publicly available, though.

From Microsoft? Never see any...

It was just called "TCP/IP for Microsoft Windows for Workgroups".
An evidence can be found here in this MS Knowledge Base article:
https://www.betaarchive.com/wiki/index.php?ti … _Archive/108693

Grzyb wrote on 2024-12-02, 13:33:

Fascinating... Looks like something different than "MICROSOFT(R) TCP/IP-32 FOR WINDOWS(TM) FOR WORKGROUPS 3.11". I hope that som […]
Show full quote

Fascinating...
Looks like something different than "MICROSOFT(R) TCP/IP-32 FOR WINDOWS(TM) FOR WORKGROUPS 3.11".
I hope that some day somebody finds it...

There's also a Workgroup add-on for DOS, I think. 😉
It's "Microsoft Workgroup Add-On for MS-DOS" and pre-dates "Microsoft Network Client 3.0".

But does it support TCP/IP ?

It's impossible to connect to Samba from WfW 3.1, because the former doesn't support NetBEUI or IPX, and the latter doesn't support TCP/IP, at least until somebody finds that mysterious "TCP/IP for Microsoft Windows for Workgroups".

I'm not sure that I found precisely the mysterious software, but I found some things.

I started out looking at https://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/DOS_Networking - one of the many sites that suggests combining the freely-available MSclient 3/Microsoft Network Client 3 DSK3-1.EXE and DSK3-2.EXE, which supports TCP/IP, with WG1049.exe, a patch for the Microsoft Workgroup Add-on for MS-DOS , which adds support for sharing.

I was wondering if Microsoft had an official way to add TCP/IP support to the Add-on for MS-DOS, and found that they did, described in KB article Q117179 "Running WFWG TCP/IP (WFWTCP) with Workgroup Add-On for MS-DOS".

I then ran across the fact that this "WFWTCP" was available from ftp.microsoft.com, as archived here for example (thanks davidrg!): INDEX.TXT says:

WFWTCP.EXE […]
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WFWTCP.EXE

Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups includes the real mode NDIS 2
protocol stack to support connecting computers running Windows for
Workgroups together or computers running Windows for Workgroups to Windows
NT using the TCP/IP protocol. Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups
does not include any TCP/IP utilities, however support for the Windows
Sockets Interface is provided allowing any Windows Sockets-compatible
TCP/IP utility including terminal emulators and file transfer software.

READTCP!.TXT inside WFWTCP.EXE says this:

Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups 3.11 Release Notes

I guess this isn't the mysterious one for WfW 3.1 then 🙁 Is the fact that it's a "real mode NDIS 2 protocol stack" different from the stacks we've been discussing previously in this thread?

It also says:

If you have installed a previous version of Microsoft TCP/IP for
Windows for Workgroups (such as the TCP/IP support offered with
LAN Manager Version 2.2), ...

KB article Q93736 has "information on enabling the Microsoft TCP/IP protocol included with Microsoft LAN Manager for use with Windows for Workgroups version 3.1."

KB article Q93441 says, with regards to TCP, "LAN Manager 2.2 includes a protocol disk in Windows for Workgroups format". I wonder if that means the above instructions are only required for using drivers from an earlier version?

Anyway, perhaps the mysterious TCP for WfW 3.1 is hidden in LAN Manager 2.2?

I also found this article on the January 1995 TechNet CD: Personal Systems -> MS Windows for Workgroups -> Product Facts -> TCP/IP Networking -> Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups:

Part Number: Dual Media (261-050v310) Available from MS direct. A company only needs to purchase 1 copy. Product Information Pos […]
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Part Number: Dual Media (261-050v310)
Available from MS direct. A company only needs to purchase 1 copy.
Product Information
Positioning:
Microsoft TCP/IP enables Windows for Workgroups to extend its easy to use networking to wide area networks based on the industry standard TCP/IP protocol. TCP/IP can be used as the only protocol for workgroup computing and connecting to enterprise resources. Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups will be the first Microsoft TCP/IP product to offer support for the industry standard Windows
Sockets interface.
Windows Sockets is part of the Windows Open Services Architecture (WOSA) providing a framework for client-server applications using the familiar sockets pardigm. The Windows Sockets interface allows users running TCP/IP for WFW to choose from applications developed by over 40 vendors supporting the Windows Sockets standard, or any of the readily available public domain applications written to the interface
Product Notes:
1. This is a protocol only package. There are no connectivity utilities in this package. Customer's should be referred to the Windows Sockets Vendor list included in the package for 3rd party utilities that work with MS TCP/IP for WFW.
2. This product is a real mode transport, not a VxD (this means it takes up MS-DOS memory (80 to 100K)- a VxD would reside within Windows without taking MS-DOS resources).
Packaging:
White box with label, dual media and documentation and Windows Sockets Vendor List. License provides right to copy the software *UNLIMITED* number of times.
System Requirements:
Requires Windows for Workgroups version 3.1.
Other Information:
Literature:
There are no datasheets for the protocol packages. This note and the documentation will serve as the product information sheet.
Distribution:
Available direct from Microsoft since a customer only needs to purchase 1 copy. International: 'A' versions will be available. Localizations are not planned for any language.
OEM:
WFW and LM OEMs will be entitled to ship these protocols with their products for no additional cost. We will work with ISVs on a case by case basis for packaging deals.
Support:
US support policy: Customers should contact a channel partner (solution provider). Support from Microsoft is covered under paid support plans only.

The parts I bolded make it pretty clear that they didn't care about getting money for this. That makes me think it probably ended up in other things, so perhaps in LAN Manager clients?

One thing is obvious: Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups 3.1 was a commercial boxed product - not something available for download.
Microsoft didn't care to sell many copies, and haven't sold many - that's why it's nowhere to be found today...

The 3.11 pack doesn't work?

myne wrote on 2025-07-19, 15:10:

The 3.11 pack doesn't work?

I tried TCP/IP-32 3.11a on Windows for Workgroups 3.1 by going to Control Panel -> Network -> Adapters -> Setup -> Protocols... -> Unlisted or Updated Protocol, Add ->, but after picking the directory containing the files, it gave me an empty list of protocols to pick from, so I suppose it doesn't like the OEMSETUP.INF.

I found some other versions, based on finding filenames in TechNet and searching for them, and while I haven't tried installing them, there seems to be a definite "no" answer in the second one:

http://cd.textfiles.com/pier05/047/mtcpb1.zip - "MICROSOFT(R) TCP/IP-32 FOR WINDOWS(TM) FOR WORKGROUPS 3.11", "MARCH 1994 BETA"

http://cd.textfiles.com/cream05/windows/wfwt32.zip - README.TXT says:

RELEASE NOTES FOR MICROSOFT(R) TCP/IP-32 FOR WINDOWS(TM) FOR WORKGROUPS 3.11 PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE DOC […]
Show full quote

RELEASE NOTES FOR MICROSOFT(R) TCP/IP-32 FOR WINDOWS(TM) FOR WORKGROUPS 3.11

PLEASE READ THIS ENTIRE DOCUMENT

General
-------
This product is compatible with, and supported exclusively on, the
Microsoft Windows For Workgroups 3.11 platform.

That sounds like it's not going to work on 3.1, then.

From reading the Windows for Workgroups 3.11 Resource Kit, it sounds like NDIS 3 support is new in that version vs. 3.1, and it's 32-bit vs. NDIS 2's 16-bit, and the TCP/IP-32 3.11a OEMSETUP.INF mentions "ndis3" a bit (and it obviously has "32" in its name).

I tried TCP/IP-32 3.11a on Windows for Workgroups 3.1 by going to Control Panel -> Network -> Adapters -> Setup -> Protocols... -> Unlisted or Updated Protocol, Add ->, but after picking the directory containing the files, it gave me an empty list of protocols to pick from, so I suppose it doesn't like the OEMSETUP.INF.

I'm not sure right now, but I believe TCP/IP-32 protocol stack can't be installed alone.
The standard networking protocol for WfW network must be installed before, for example.

Have a look through the infs in the 311 iso in my sig.
It might give some ideas.
I had to modify them to add tcpip "out of the box" as it were.
I think I left enough comments that it should make sense.

Jo22 wrote on Yesterday, 14:15:

I tried TCP/IP-32 3.11a on Windows for Workgroups 3.1 by going to Control Panel -> Network -> Adapters -> Setup -> Protocols... -> Unlisted or Updated Protocol, Add ->, but after picking the directory containing the files, it gave me an empty list of protocols to pick from, so I suppose it doesn't like the OEMSETUP.INF.

I'm not sure right now, but I believe TCP/IP-32 protocol stack can't be installed alone.
The standard networking protocol for WfW network must be installed before, for example.

I already had an adapter installed, and if I understand correctly, you can't not have the standard network protocol installed.

myne wrote on Yesterday, 14:24:

Have a look through the infs in the 311 iso in my sig. It might give some ideas. I had to modify them to add tcpip "out of the b […]
Show full quote

Have a look through the infs in the 311 iso in my sig.
It might give some ideas.
I had to modify them to add tcpip "out of the box" as it were.
I think I left enough comments that it should make sense.

Thanks (and I think your template is awesome), but I'm no Dr Frankenstein 😁 I find it frustrating enough trying to hack INF files to do things Microsoft actually claim to have supported, let alone do experiments.

Anyway, I think I might have found the real thing when I did a Google search for the proper name "TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups" (as I found in a knowledge base article). It's pretty different from the TCP/IP-32 releases as it has its own SETUP.EXE. I haven't had time to try it yet.