So I've installed WfW 3.1, and tried both TCP/IP packages:

Microsoft TCP/IP-32 for Windows for Workgroups 3.11
- no way to install, of course

Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups 3.11
- does install, but...
- no way to configure it, selecting "Settings..." brings "There are no advanced settings required for the selected protocol or network adapter."
- when booting DOS, errors when loading TCPTSR, TINYRFC, NMTSR
- when starting Windows, "Networking functionality will not be available because network protocols were not loaded..."

You'll probably have to borrow some dlls/sys/com files from 3.11
Look at the inf files.
Look at the files in common that are mentioned, but not part of the package.
Try replacing.

Random googling found references to Ms net client 3.
http://www.win3x.org/win3board/viewtopic.php? … =25099&view=min

myne wrote on 2025-07-21, 04:26:

You'll probably have to borrow some dlls/sys/com files from 3.11 Look at the inf files. Look at the files in common that are men […]
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You'll probably have to borrow some dlls/sys/com files from 3.11
Look at the inf files.
Look at the files in common that are mentioned, but not part of the package.
Try replacing.

I don't doubt that it can be manually made to work.
I don't think there's much difference between the TCP/IP from DOS client, and the real mode one for WfW 3.11 - and we already know that the former can be transplanted into WfW 3.1.

But the point is:
It won't install work when installed using the normal procedure, so it can't be the same product as the one we're searching for.

Grzyb wrote on 2025-07-21, 04:17:

Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups 3.11 - does install, but... - no way to configure it, selecting "Settings..." brings […]
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Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups 3.11
- does install, but...
- no way to configure it, selecting "Settings..." brings "There are no advanced settings required for the selected protocol or network adapter."
- when booting DOS, errors when loading TCPTSR, TINYRFC, NMTSR
- when starting Windows, "Networking functionality will not be available because network protocols were not loaded..."

It's unfortunate that the version number of the stack is 3.11, because I don't think it's only for WfW 3.11 (but I suspect it might work on that too), and it's probably going to cause confusion 😁

Did you install by running the included SETUP.EXE? It brings up what looks like the normal "Network Adapters" dialog box you can access from the Control Panel, so it might seem unnecessary, but I remember reading some knowledge base article for one of these stacks - quite possibly this one - which said you need to use SETUP.EXE to add the protocol so it can update the Control Panel itself.

I used SETUP.EXE and it seems to work for me:
- PING works from DOS (before starting Windows) and from a DOS prompt in Windows
- I can get Windows NT 4 to connect to a share on the WfW machine over NetBIOS over TCP/IP

I've had a lot of trouble with Windows hanging when I go to Control Panel -> Network though. It seems to happen if I try to do that right after starting Windows, but if I run File Manager and then exit right away it doesn't happen. I tried waiting for longer than it takes me to start and close File Manager but that didn't help. This is quite repeatable!

doshea wrote on 2025-07-21, 09:14:

SETUP.EXE

I thought we were talking about this - https://ftp.zx.net.nz/pub/archive/ftp.microso … /WFW/WFWTCP.EXE - but there's no SETUP.EXE inside that SFX.

Where exactly is the version with SETUP.EXE ?

YES!
@doshea - you have found The Holy Grail!

During WfW 3.1 installation, I added TCP/IP as "Unlisted or Updated Protocol", and removed NetBEUI - but it wouldn't let me enter "Settings..." at this point.
After reboot, I ran SETUP.EXE - and then entered address/mask/gateway - there's no BOOTP nor DHCP, only static configuration!

Unfortunately, it crashes often - doesn't like my 3C509B card? Or my modern Linux/Samba server?
It would be a good idea to try with some other NIC, and/or period-correct server software - like another WfW 3.1 machine, or NT 3.x.

Edit:
Is there some problem with image attachments?
I've set is as INLINE, but can't see it in this post...

The chronology of WfW and TCP/IP, based on files time-stamps:

October 1992 - WfW 3.1
June 1993 - "TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups" - version=3.11.001
November 1993 - WfW 3.11
January 1994 - "TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups for WFW 3.11" - version=3.11.060
March 1994 - "Microsoft TCP/IP-32 for Windows for Workgroups 3.11 (March Beta)" - version=3.11.011
August 1994 - "Microsoft TCP/IP-32 for Windows for Workgroups 3.11" - version=3.11.131
November 1994 - "Microsoft TCP/IP-32 for Windows for Workgroups 3.11" (3.11a) - version=3.11.131
May 1995 - "Microsoft TCP/IP-32 for Windows for Workgroups 3.11" (3.11b) - version=3.11.158

myne wrote on 2025-07-21, 04:35:

Random googling found references to Ms net client 3.
http://www.win3x.org/win3board/viewtopic.php? … =25099&view=min

I didn't look at that yet, but I certainly saw references in TechNet to using the TCP stacks from both LAN Manager 2.x (client) and MS Client 3 with Windows for Workgroups.

I think there was also an article comparing some of the different stacks. https://virtuallyfun.com/2024/03/18/so-i-used … the-same-thing/ says:

However, despite LAN Manager 2.2 providing a TCP/IP stack to connect to both OS/2 and NT servers, there is no winsock interoperability dll.

I think I saw that in TechNet too - some of these stacks provide alternate socket libraries that aren't winsock compatible. The "holy grail" one I found does support winsock. I assume it might be the only Microsoft stack for WfW 3.11 where you get to adjust settings from within Windows too?

Grzyb wrote on 2025-07-21, 11:59:

During WfW 3.1 installation, I added TCP/IP as "Unlisted or Updated Protocol", and removed NetBEUI - but it wouldn't let me enter "Settings..." at this point.

I suppose that might be due to not having run SETUP.EXE yet.

Unfortunately, it crashes often - doesn't like my 3C509B card? Or my modern Linux/Samba server?
It would be a good idea to try with some other NIC, and/or period-correct server software - like another WfW 3.1 machine, or NT 3.x.

I'll try some testing in emulation soon, against a Windows NT 4 VM. I was using an emulated NE2000. I feel like I should do some testing with winsock too. Perhaps WS_FTP?

I've set is as INLINE, but can't see it in this post...

I don't know, but yes, I had to click on it.

Thanks also for the summary of all the versions! I recall now that some knowledge base article might have mentioned which stacks have DHCP, etc. Seems like a big table of features is needed!

I assume we are talking about this?

Notice the version number - 3.1 not 3.11

maxtherabbit wrote on 2025-07-22, 13:10:

I assume we are talking about this?

Exactly - "version=3.11.001" in OEMSETUP.INF

doshea wrote on 2025-07-22, 12:01:

I'll try some testing in emulation soon, against a Windows NT 4 VM. I was using an emulated NE2000. I feel like I should do some testing with winsock too. Perhaps WS_FTP?

If you can get winsock to function on an [emulated] 286, that would really be something. Otherwise I don't see what additional functionality this would offer over my method of grafting in the net client 3 files other than ease of setup. All the files on this disk are essentially just older versions of the same stuff.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2025-07-22, 13:10:

I assume we are talking about this? https://archive.org/download/tcpip-workgroups/Disk.jpg […]
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I assume we are talking about this?

Yeah, thanks, that's a good way to clarify. In fact, that made me think a bit more - I posted this earlier:

doshea wrote on 2025-07-18, 11:38:

I also found this article on the January 1995 TechNet CD: Personal Systems -> MS Windows for Workgroups -> Product Facts -> TCP/IP Networking -> Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows for Workgroups:

Part Number: Dual Media (261-050v310) ... Packaging: White box with label, dual media and documentation and Windows Sockets Vend […]
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Part Number: Dual Media (261-050v310)
...
Packaging:
White box with label, dual media and documentation and Windows Sockets Vendor List. License provides right to copy the software *UNLIMITED* number of times.
...

Does anyone understand MS part numbers? They're close together, not sure if that means we can infer anything about this being one of the floppies in the "White box" whose part number is in the quoted article, or if it's a slightly newer version or something?

maxtherabbit wrote on 2025-07-22, 13:41:

All the files on this disk are essentially just older versions of the same stuff.

Probably more buggy too! 😁 Anyway thanks, if I have time and nobody beats me to it, sometime I might see if I can use sockets on an emulated 286.

Grzyb wrote on 2025-07-21, 11:59:

Unfortunately, it crashes often - doesn't like my 3C509B card? Or my modern Linux/Samba server?
It would be a good idea to try with some other NIC, and/or period-correct server software - like another WfW 3.1 machine, or NT 3.x.

My setup, on a Linux host:
Windows for Workgroups 3.1 + the TCP stack running on Bochs with 50M instructions per second, NE2000
Windows NT 4 Server on VirtualBox
connected via tap adapters which are connected via a bridge

I connected to the server from WfW and did various copies from the server to WfW:
- prior to enabling winsock in the settings, I copied a 20MB file, and a 20MB directory tree, via SMB over TCP/IP
- after enabling winsock, I copied the 20MB directory tree again via SMB over TCP/IP, copied the 20MB file using WS_FTP version 93.11.12, and also browsed the default IIS web site a little using Opera 1.0

No stability issues.

Also, I tried with an emulated 286 under 86Box, but I've yet to get any networking working under 86Box. I might have to build a newer version that supports TAP interfaces like I want, because I don't know how to use VDE.

I got networking in 86Box going after many rebuilds and attempts at using VDE, TAP and PCAP. It turns out I had to go to the Media menu and "connect" the NIC 🙁

I had success on an emulated 486, although it hung a few times. With a 286, I'm pretty sure I could ping from DOS, but it hung when starting Windows, and this appeared on the console:

1[049F:00009F07] Illegal instruction 00008B55 (FF)
2[F000:0000B565] Illegal instruction 00000060 (01)

That seems like it could be related to something that won't work on a 286. Some online disassembler made it look like 0x55 is what I think is a 386-only instruction, but I'm not really sure.

maxtherabbit wrote on 2025-07-22, 13:41:

If you can get winsock to function on an [emulated] 286, that would really be something. Otherwise I don't see what additional functionality this would offer over my method of grafting in the net client 3 files other than ease of setup. All the files on this disk are essentially just older versions of the same stuff.

As per my most recent post above, unfortunately it didn't work on a 286.

I'm sure you know more about this than me, but I'm a bit confused because I can PING from DOS (okay it's only using IP, not TCP) and NET USE works too, but after I've used NET USE, starting Windows still hangs. I take it that it's loading some more protocol stack stuff that requires a 386, which runs on top of what is already running under DOS?

I wonder if the situation would be different if instead of using Windows for Workgroups, we tried with non-Workgroups? If I understand correctly, regular Windows can still be told that you're using a Microsoft Network or something, and then maybe File Manager will let you interact with shares to some extent. I suppose you lose the ability to share though, except maybe if you use WG1049.EXE? And perhaps it would break the winsock layer too?

Have you tried any of that? I'm not sure exactly what your requirements are - you obviously want winsock, but how about the ability to share?

Hi, if you need TCP/IP stack, there's one that works on Windows 3.0 on an 8086 PC.
It's called "NetManage Chameleon". Version 3 runs on both Windows 3.0 and 3.1, version 4 needs Windows 3.1x.

doshea wrote on 2025-07-25, 07:09:

As per my most recent post above, unfortunately it didn't work on a 286. […]
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maxtherabbit wrote on 2025-07-22, 13:41:

If you can get winsock to function on an [emulated] 286, that would really be something. Otherwise I don't see what additional functionality this would offer over my method of grafting in the net client 3 files other than ease of setup. All the files on this disk are essentially just older versions of the same stuff.

As per my most recent post above, unfortunately it didn't work on a 286.

I'm sure you know more about this than me, but I'm a bit confused because I can PING from DOS (okay it's only using IP, not TCP) and NET USE works too, but after I've used NET USE, starting Windows still hangs. I take it that it's loading some more protocol stack stuff that requires a 386, which runs on top of what is already running under DOS?

I wonder if the situation would be different if instead of using Windows for Workgroups, we tried with non-Workgroups? If I understand correctly, regular Windows can still be told that you're using a Microsoft Network or something, and then maybe File Manager will let you interact with shares to some extent. I suppose you lose the ability to share though, except maybe if you use WG1049.EXE? And perhaps it would break the winsock layer too?

Have you tried any of that? I'm not sure exactly what your requirements are - you obviously want winsock, but how about the ability to share?

Not sure what exactly your issue is because both wfw3.1 and win3.1 in standard mode worked perfectly fine on a 286 using the dos tcp stack, winsock notwithstanding.

I would have to try that upgrade disk specifically to try to corroborate your findings.

Did you install everything using the emulated 286, or did you get a working setup with emulated 486 and then just try switching processor types?

maxtherabbit wrote on 2025-07-25, 15:24:

Not sure what exactly your issue is because both wfw3.1 and win3.1 in standard mode worked perfectly fine on a 286 using the dos tcp stack, winsock notwithstanding.

Oh, thanks for the info. What is the winsock situation there?

Did you install everything using the emulated 286, or did you get a working setup with emulated 486 and then just try switching processor types?

The latter, is that likely to be an issue? 🙁

doshea wrote on 2025-07-26, 05:14:

Did you install everything using the emulated 286, or did you get a working setup with emulated 486 and then just try switching processor types?

The latter, is that likely to be an issue? 🙁

Very likely.
Standard mode on a 286 and Standard mode on a 386 use different kernels - https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20 … 0208-00/?p=5303