VOGONS


First post, by Bizz

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I couldn’t believe my luck, I found a Voodoo2 in a trash pile at the local recycling depot. It’s an 8MB Diamond build and I’m on my native voyage build with it.
Build specs:
- Mother board - VX97 (with custom BIOS)
- AMD K62 500mhz
- 16mb RAM
- ISA Sound Blaster CT4180

Now, the hiccup:
- S3 ViRGE
- Voodoo2

They are physically impacted by the heatsink of the CPU.
There is some bend and sway in the cards both above and below the CPU; the Voodoo2 is above and S3 below. No electrical connection, but the voodoo2 has a couple of RAM chips against the CPU.

Is this a bad idea?

Reply 1 of 12, by dominusprog

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Yes, it will damage both cards in the long run. Find a smaller 50x50mm heatsink, also swap the cards.

PS. Increase the RAM to at least 64MiB.

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A-Trend ATC-1020 V1.1 ❇ Cyrix 6x86 150+ @ 120MHz ❇ 32MiB EDO RAM (8MiBx4) ❇ A-Trend S3 Trio64V2 2MiB
Creative AWE64 Value ❇ 8.4GiB Quantum Fireball ❇ Win95 OSR2 Plus!

Reply 2 of 12, by dionb

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And/or look for a different motherboard. The BabyAT form factor always has challenges with some long cards, but a lot of boards have the CPU lower down, impacting a couple of ISA slots and leaving one or two PCI slots free for longer cards.

There are also shorter S3 Virge cards - in particular cards by Diamond and ELSA are frequently not much longer than the slot itself. I see the Diamond Stealth3D 3000 pop up quite a lot. It also has very good analog image quality (commonly poor on S3-based cards)

dominusprog wrote on 2025-08-19, 07:55:

[...]

PS. Increase the RAM to at least 64MiB.

To max 64MiB. This board has an i430VX chipset and can only cache 64MB. If it's just about playing games, no game that would run well on this setup would need more than 64MB.

Reply 3 of 12, by dominusprog

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dionb wrote on 2025-08-19, 09:01:
And/or look for a different motherboard. The BabyAT form factor always has challenges with some long cards, but a lot of boards […]
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And/or look for a different motherboard. The BabyAT form factor always has challenges with some long cards, but a lot of boards have the CPU lower down, impacting a couple of ISA slots and leaving one or two PCI slots free for longer cards.

There are also shorter S3 Virge cards - in particular cards by Diamond and ELSA are frequently not much longer than the slot itself. I see the Diamond Stealth3D 3000 pop up quite a lot. It also has very good analog image quality (commonly poor on S3-based cards)

dominusprog wrote on 2025-08-19, 07:55:

[...]

PS. Increase the RAM to at least 64MiB.

To max 64MiB. This board has an i430VX chipset and can only cache 64MB. If it's just about playing games, no game that would run well on this setup would need more than 64MB.

Yes, I completely forgot. I'm just thinking about the K6-2.

Duke_2600.png
A-Trend ATC-1020 V1.1 ❇ Cyrix 6x86 150+ @ 120MHz ❇ 32MiB EDO RAM (8MiBx4) ❇ A-Trend S3 Trio64V2 2MiB
Creative AWE64 Value ❇ 8.4GiB Quantum Fireball ❇ Win95 OSR2 Plus!

Reply 4 of 12, by myne

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What's wrong with swapping the 2 cards?
The vga is shorter

I built:
Convert old ASUS ASC boardviews to KICAD PCB!
Re: A comprehensive guide to install and play MechWarrior 2 on new versions on Windows.
Dos+Windows 3.11+tcp+vbe_svga auto-install iso template
Script to backup Win9x\ME drivers from a working install
Re: The thing no one asked for: KICAD 440bx reference schematic

Reply 5 of 12, by Bizz

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myne wrote on 2025-08-19, 14:13:

What's wrong with swapping the 2 cards?
The vga is shorter

I did try that, but the RAM sockets on the S3 are taller and cause more flex on the end of the card than what the V2 is experiencing.

I’ll be on the hunt for a smaller heatsink, my focus was on keeping the K6-2 nice and cool, though from what I’m reading about 3Dfx, these cards took on a lot of the processing power and relaxed/offloaded the CPU.

I did have a Radeon 7000 PCI in here, but having the Voodoo2 is a 27-year dream-come-true.
And I wanted to run Glide games as natively as possible.

Reply 6 of 12, by jakethompson1

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The HOT-591P has this same issue with the Voodoo2 and Shuttle's suggestion is a low profile heatsink

Which leads to the question: why did high profile ones exist then? Quieter fan, overkill because they're Socket 370/A era ones, or cheaper because the smaller ones need more expensive/more thermally conductive metal?

Reply 7 of 12, by nali

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I'm not sure there's any real risk.
The bent looks very light.

Reply 8 of 12, by myne

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Bizz wrote on 2025-08-19, 18:17:
I did try that, but the RAM sockets on the S3 are taller and cause more flex on the end of the card than what the V2 is experien […]
Show full quote
myne wrote on 2025-08-19, 14:13:

What's wrong with swapping the 2 cards?
The vga is shorter

I did try that, but the RAM sockets on the S3 are taller and cause more flex on the end of the card than what the V2 is experiencing.

I’ll be on the hunt for a smaller heatsink, my focus was on keeping the K6-2 nice and cool, though from what I’m reading about 3Dfx, these cards took on a lot of the processing power and relaxed/offloaded the CPU.

I did have a Radeon 7000 PCI in here, but having the Voodoo2 is a 27-year dream-come-true.
And I wanted to run Glide games as natively as possible.

I'd rather bend an S3 than a voodoo

I built:
Convert old ASUS ASC boardviews to KICAD PCB!
Re: A comprehensive guide to install and play MechWarrior 2 on new versions on Windows.
Dos+Windows 3.11+tcp+vbe_svga auto-install iso template
Script to backup Win9x\ME drivers from a working install
Re: The thing no one asked for: KICAD 440bx reference schematic

Reply 9 of 12, by dionb

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jakethompson1 wrote on 2025-08-19, 18:34:

The HOT-591P has this same issue with the Voodoo2 and Shuttle's suggestion is a low profile heatsink

Which leads to the question: why did high profile ones exist then? Quieter fan, overkill because they're Socket 370/A era ones, or cheaper because the smaller ones need more expensive/more thermally conductive metal?

Because more cooling is better - and you can hardly blame CPU cooler designers for the consequences of poor motherboard layout.

The challenge is that you simply can't keep making boards smaller (this is a relatively short babyAT board, if you compare it to say Asus' own P55T2P4), add more features (big VRMs as well as the CPU socket itself - and DIMM slots on many boards) and yet still keep space free for big cards. Take a look at other contemporary designs - every single one is a compromise in some way. Asus chose to dedicate what space there was exclusively to ISA slots, which - in 1997 - is a bad choice for a mainstream board. Compare it with say an Abit AB-IT5V, which has two uninterrupted PCI slots as well as one ISA slot. Not great for legacy-heavy builds but better suited for a 1997 mainstream board.

Reply 10 of 12, by dominusprog

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dionb wrote on 2025-08-20, 07:33:
jakethompson1 wrote on 2025-08-19, 18:34:

The HOT-591P has this same issue with the Voodoo2 and Shuttle's suggestion is a low profile heatsink

Which leads to the question: why did high profile ones exist then? Quieter fan, overkill because they're Socket 370/A era ones, or cheaper because the smaller ones need more expensive/more thermally conductive metal?

Because more cooling is better - and you can hardly blame CPU cooler designers for the consequences of poor motherboard layout.

The challenge is that you simply can't keep making boards smaller (this is a relatively short babyAT board, if you compare it to say Asus' own P55T2P4), add more features (big VRMs as well as the CPU socket itself - and DIMM slots on many boards) and yet still keep space free for big cards. Take a look at other contemporary designs - every single one is a compromise in some way. Asus chose to dedicate what space there was exclusively to ISA slots, which - in 1997 - is a bad choice for a mainstream board. Compare it with say an Abit AB-IT5V, which has two uninterrupted PCI slots as well as one ISA slot. Not great for legacy-heavy builds but better suited for a 1997 mainstream board.

Right, good cooling is necessary for a K6-2, but if he installs a 80x80mm fan in the front of the case it'll help with air-flow.

Duke_2600.png
A-Trend ATC-1020 V1.1 ❇ Cyrix 6x86 150+ @ 120MHz ❇ 32MiB EDO RAM (8MiBx4) ❇ A-Trend S3 Trio64V2 2MiB
Creative AWE64 Value ❇ 8.4GiB Quantum Fireball ❇ Win95 OSR2 Plus!

Reply 11 of 12, by mkarcher

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dionb wrote on 2025-08-19, 09:01:

There are also shorter S3 Virge cards - in particular cards by Diamond and ELSA are frequently not much longer than the slot itself. I see the Diamond Stealth3D 3000 pop up quite a lot. It also has very good analog image quality (commonly poor on S3-based cards)

The primary issue is that the OP is using a 4MB Virge cards. They are typically built using 8 SOJ-40 RAM chips, and those chips require space. Using a 4MB card is a very good choice if you want to use the 3D engine, as 2MB leaves not that much space for textures if you have a 640*480/16bpp double buffered framebuffer. On the other hand, if you use a Virge plainly as 2D card, 2MB are fine, and 2MB cards fit that board perfectly.

There are creatively designed short Virge DX cards that can use4MB of local memory, but at least the one I have at hand is an entry-level budget card, which I would not recommend to anyone except for novelty value. For example, the BIOS in that card initializes the Virge chip/memory clock at 45MHz, while the Hercules 3D/DX initializes the card at 72MHz. The latter clock makes Terminal Velocity with S3D acceleration actually playable.

Reply 12 of 12, by dionb

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mkarcher wrote on 2025-08-20, 10:21:
dionb wrote on 2025-08-19, 09:01:

There are also shorter S3 Virge cards - in particular cards by Diamond and ELSA are frequently not much longer than the slot itself. I see the Diamond Stealth3D 3000 pop up quite a lot. It also has very good analog image quality (commonly poor on S3-based cards)

The primary issue is that the OP is using a 4MB Virge cards. They are typically built using 8 SOJ-40 RAM chips, and those chips require space. Using a 4MB card is a very good choice if you want to use the 3D engine, as 2MB leaves not that much space for textures if you have a 640*480/16bpp double buffered framebuffer. On the other hand, if you use a Virge plainly as 2D card, 2MB are fine, and 2MB cards fit that board perfectly.

There are creatively designed short Virge DX cards that can use4MB of local memory, but at least the one I have at hand is an entry-level budget card, which I would not recommend to anyone except for novelty value. For example, the BIOS in that card initializes the Virge chip/memory clock at 45MHz, while the Hercules 3D/DX initializes the card at 72MHz. The latter clock makes Terminal Velocity with S3D acceleration actually playable.

The Diamond Stealth3D 3000 I referred to is a 4MB card, with the third and fourth MB piggy-backed on a separate PCB:
988fb.jpg

That's a Virge/VX. but there are shorter Virge/DX cards with 4MB too:
375diamfb.jpg