VOGONS


First post, by vanfanel

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Hi there,

Sometime ago, I was experimenting with 68K/PPC Macintosh emulation on MAME and QEMU (QEMU emulates a Quadra 800 PPC Mac).

I wanted to see how well games work, since I consider games to be a good test for computer emulation accuracy, but I didn't find any games with smooth, constant animation/scrolling/movement on the M68K/PPC Macintosh models I emulated.

For example, on DOS we have the likes of Superfrog, Jazz Jackrabbit, Supaplex, Pinball Dreams/Fantasies/Illusions, the animated scrolling credits in the original Lemmings tittle screen, etc... which allows me to determine if an emulator is properly synchronized to physical display refresh rate.

So, are there any games on 68K/PPC Macs that can be used to test that?
(Credits scroll in Lemmings 1 Mac is jerky even on real hardware...)

Reply 1 of 18, by vanfanel

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I'd like to add that, out of curiosity, I asked ChatGPT about this matter, and the answer was more or less that Mac OS 7,8 or 9 didn't provide any direct framebuffer access or VSYNC control, with everything going thru QuickDraw, so it would be impossible to have smooth-scrolling games on classic Macs.

But I'd like to be proven wrong.

Reply 3 of 18, by BinaryDemon

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No first hand experience but

REMOVED

Has a side scroller category and reports:

Found 75 software entries in Games from category: Side Scrolling running on the Motorola 68K architecture

Found 31 software entries in Games from category: Side Scrolling running on the 68K + PPC (FAT) architecture

Found 56 software entries in Games from category: Side Scrolling running on the IBM PowerPC architecture

//Removed link to so called "abandonware" site. (DosFreak)

//Sorry not a Mac guy, didn’t realize it was abandonware (Binarydemon).

Last edited by BinaryDemon on 2025-06-01, 16:14. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 4 of 18, by Babasha

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Jazz Jack Rabbit 2

Need help? Begin with photo and model of your hardware 😉

Reply 5 of 18, by Cyberdyne

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What was Macintosh Wolfenstein 3D minimum requirements? Smooth scrolling plus 3D.

I am aroused about any X86 motherboard that has full functional ISA slot. I think i have problem. Not really into that original (Turbo) XT,286,386 and CGA/EGA stuff. So just a DOS nut.
PS. If I upload RAR, it is a 16-bit DOS RAR Version 2.50.

Reply 7 of 18, by dr.zeissler

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Wolf3D runs quite good on the first PowerMac 6100/66 with 256k cache at 640x400.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 8 of 18, by vanfanel

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wierd_w wrote on 2025-05-30, 14:09:

This seems more or less what I wanted to find. That game seems to do 1-pixel scrolling synchronized to the screen, there's some juddering but that could be due to youtube framerates.

@Babasha: good catch but I believe that uses OpenGL... At least it does on Linux, where I have that game.

And Wolf3D is... well, 3D- Not really suitable for screen movement observation, 2D games are better for that.

Reply 10 of 18, by vanfanel

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After looking at the results in Macintosh Repository, I have found this one, called Star Fight:
https://www.macintoshrepository.org/41411-star-fight-final

...which is a 2d sidescrolling shot'em up in the vein of Nemesis/Gradius.
It works on Mac OS 8.1 on QEMU, and even if it IS a 60FPS game, scrolling doesn't seem to be synchronized to the screen refresh rate.
Hence my question: Is there a single game in Mac OS 7/8/9 that does synchronized scrolling?

Reply 11 of 18, by filipetolhuizen

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Look for Tubular Worlds, a 2D side scrolling shooter. Works really well on emulators.

Reply 12 of 18, by dr.zeissler

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Is far from being smooth/stutterfree on 68040 or even PPC66Mhz (6100/66)

Last edited by dr.zeissler on 2025-08-25, 18:56. Edited 1 time in total.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 13 of 18, by vanfanel

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dr.zeissler wrote on 2025-06-02, 05:36:

Is far from being smooth/stutterfree on 68040 oder even PPC66Mhz (6100/66)

Do you mean Tubular Worlds?

Then.. do you know any game that is smooth on PPC66Mhz??

Reply 14 of 18, by dr.zeissler

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no I don't know any smooth scroller on early Mac 68k/ppc.
normally thy should sync 67hz on Mac so very uncommon to tweak an engine to this.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines

Reply 15 of 18, by kataetheweirdo

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Ferazel's Wand was patched up in Sheepshaver all the way back in 2012, though Kanjitalk755's fork is probably the best hope for the game to run.

I also ran the demo under DingusPPC using the Power Mac 6100 emulation and it seems a little fast, but playable.

Reply 16 of 18, by sam256

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Continuum was a side-scrolling, black and white asteroids type game that had smooth scrolling as far back as the 512k Mac. Aside from it being an awesome game, one of the nice things about it is that's its source code has been released into the public domain. https://www.ski-epic.com/continuum_downloads/

It runs pretty well in Basilisk and probably vMac. You can also run it using the "standalone" emulator project MACE. https://mace.home.blog/files/

Emulation is almost perfect, though unfortunately the cross-hatch background pattern looks back when it scrolls on modern screens. It looked great on CRT...

I have spent a fair bit of time understanding how this game worked under the hood. The way it did the animation was basically this:

1. Draw a frame in an offscreen buffer
2. Wait at least 3 ticks (with a system time of 60hz thats gives 20 fps which is the VR sync rate of the screen)
3. Blit the buffer onto the screen

The trick of course was to be able to draw the frame offscreen in time, which the game did through a LOT of 68k assembly optimization for its render functions.

The game was also smart enough to use different double buffering techniques depending on what the underlying hardware was.

The key logic for this is the Play.c file of the source. There's a while loop at line 95 which does this:

while( !endofplanet && !endofgame)
{
move_and_display(); // Advance game state and draw everything to back buffer
wait_for_VR(); // Wait for timing to match vr sync
swap_screens(); // Make back buffer visible via various blitting techniques depending on hardware
}

and then the "sync" logic is in that wait_for_VR() function which is further down the file, but basically makes sure at least 3 ticks have passed

Reply 17 of 18, by nfraser01

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dr.zeissler wrote on 2025-05-31, 09:53:

Wolf3D runs quite good on the first PowerMac 6100/66 with 256k cache at 640x400.

If you got the cache card...

Reply 18 of 18, by dr.zeissler

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6100/66 always had the cache, the 6100/60 did not.

Retro-Gamer 😀 ...on different machines