mateusz.viste wrote on 2025-08-19, 14:33:

Pickle wrote on 2025-08-19, 14:23:

Your tool does sound appealing to use some of the EMS for 32kb/64kb UMB. Is the remaining EMS memory still available in that use case?

An interesting question could be: do you use any software that supports EMS but not XMS? If not, then loosing EMS in favor of XMS + 32/64K of UMBs is probably worth it.

What other memory schemes does you mainboard propose instead of the 512 conv +512 XMS setup? Can you, for example, assigne the entire 1M to conventional RAM? That would make you able to use plenty of conventional RAM + UMBs, take out the six pak board and still get EMS+XMS from the lotech clone.

ive been trying to run wing commander 1, but it appears to hang. Ive run the memory test in checkit on the EMS section. Ive also run commander keen and wolf3d. Ive had windows 286 on it at one time but i dont think i had the EMS used by it.
the other useful memory setup is 640 kb + 0 XMS, so as far i know that 384 kb is basically lost.
but i am going to try your tool and see how much i can maximize of that 640 kb. And if i need the EMS i will setup boot menu.

mateusz.viste wrote on 2025-08-18, 12:01:

If you are willing to test DR-DOS again, then may I suggest SvarDOS? We have put a lot of effort into it so it is small, fast and efficient. It uses the EDR-DOS kernel and an in-house COMMAND.COM, but every piece can be replaced, it's a very open system.

Tried SvarDOS but had multiple problems. Himemx.sys is for 386+ processors. Loading 4DOS caused a hang. Simple things like "dir/s" are not supported. WordPerfect 6.0 did work though (without himem). 😀

Also tried Novell DOS 7.0 but it's it takes more memory than PC DOS 7.0 (not related to Exms86). WordPerfect 6.0 did also work here.

Now trying DR DOS 6.0. But having trouble to get UMB's. USE!UMB loads without errors but no UMB's with mem or with CheckIt Pro. Loaded hidos.sys with the /noxms switch else it won't start successful. Will maybe try MS DOS 5.0 tomorrow.

I am using the default himem/hidos etc provided with each OS on purpose btw as in the ideal world these tools should work with them as well.

Yoghoo wrote on 2025-08-21, 21:03:

Himemx.sys is for 386+ processors.

True, but on a 286 you can install a 286 alternative from the SvarDOS repository - either FDXMS286 or DRHIMEM. Assuming the 286 has an internet connectivity:

1PKGNET PULL FDXMS286
2PKG INSTALL FDXMS286
3
4PKGNET PULL DRHIMEM
5PKG INSTALL DRHIMEM

If no network connectivity available, then the packages have to be downloaded manually from the SvarDOS website.

Yoghoo wrote on 2025-08-21, 21:03:

Loading 4DOS caused a hang.

Seems strange, since I know SvarDOS users that use 4DOS daily. Was it the 4DOS 8.00 from the SvarDOS repo, or some other version?

Yoghoo wrote on 2025-08-21, 21:03:

Simple things like "dir/s" are not supported.

DIR/S works, I've implemented it in October last year. I guess you probably used the old SvarDOS installation floppy from september 2024 and did not update the system after installation ("PKGNET CHECKUP").
That said, I've updated the link on the SvarDOS website this morning so the "stable release" points to a newer version now.

mateusz.viste wrote on 2025-08-21, 21:46:

True, but on a 286 you can install a 286 alternative from the SvarDOS repository - either FDXMS286 or DRHIMEM. Assuming the 286 […]
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Yoghoo wrote on 2025-08-21, 21:03:

Himemx.sys is for 386+ processors.

True, but on a 286 you can install a 286 alternative from the SvarDOS repository - either FDXMS286 or DRHIMEM. Assuming the 286 has an internet connectivity:

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1PKGNET PULL FDXMS286
2PKG INSTALL FDXMS286
3
4PKGNET PULL DRHIMEM
5PKG INSTALL DRHIMEM

If no network connectivity available, then the packages have to be downloaded manually from the SvarDOS website.

Yoghoo wrote on 2025-08-21, 21:03:

Loading 4DOS caused a hang.

Seems strange, since I know SvarDOS users that use 4DOS daily. Was it the 4DOS 8.00 from the SvarDOS repo, or some other version?

Yoghoo wrote on 2025-08-21, 21:03:

Simple things like "dir/s" are not supported.

DIR/S works, I've implemented it in October last year. I guess you probably used the old SvarDOS installation floppy from september 2024 and did not update the system after installation ("PKGNET CHECKUP").
That said, I've updated the link on the SvarDOS website this morning so the "stable release" points to a newer version now.

I'm using 4DOS 7.50. And yes there are newer versions but I'm not running DOS to run the latest and greatest versions. 😉

Indeed picked up the then stable version from the site. Good it's working in the new stable version.

My problem with Freedos and SvarDOS is that there are too many options for packages. And each program has it's own parameters which you have to relearn. Some like it but I like to play as much as possible with original programs for nostalgic reasons. I do like to play with alternative packages on Linux though. But that's enough for me. 😀 It's a great project though and I'm happy that people still invent and expand stuff for DOS.

Yoghoo wrote on 2025-08-21, 22:05:

And each program has it's own parameters which you have to relearn. Some like it but I like to play as much as possible with original programs for nostalgic reasons.

I can totally relate - myself I only like to watch movies I've already seen, and I listen mostly to music from the '90s because it's the music I know. But with legacy DOS versions I was always annoyed sooner or later, so ultimately I prefer using my own DOS that I can tailor exactly how I like. To each their own I guess. :)

Great to know WordPerfect + EXMS86 works for you (when not using PC-DOS, that is). Thanks for your feedback.

published today: EXMS86 version 0.9.7

• no longer a hacky TSR, EXMS86 has been reworked into a SYS driver
• the XMS_available function resets BL on success

where can use!umbs be obtained?

Pickle wrote on 2025-08-22, 00:15:

where can use!umbs be obtained?

Few places. One of them is here on vogons.

Hey, mateusz.viste, this is really awesome software project, if the things really work! I'm glad, that this topic survived after yet another attempt at censorship with the typical refgular suspect's interference 😀 I don't know how it is possible to address more than 1 MB memory on 8086/88 CPUs as their meximum RAM address limit is 1 MB and I also don't know if there are memory RAM-extension cards suitable for XT machines, which can be set above 1 MB RAM limit addressing. I suppose there is some kind of combined software-hardware trick behind the hardware CPU limitations. If for the software part (8086 XMS manager or driver) there's accessible physical memory beyond the 1 MB CPU address limit, then it uses it like in the EMS scheme - through "window" for XMS "pages" in "upper memory", which is directly accessible by the 8086/88 CPUs, right?

Also, I want to congratulate you as you are the creator of SvarDOS project. I hope it will be a much better DOS alternative, than the stalled FreeDOS, even if I don't like the "Svar" name's part,. which is a direct reference to the false "slavonic" mythology (it is not a coincidence that the word "slavs" was invented to sound very similar to "slaves", but this is another topic on false "history").

analog_programmer wrote on 2025-08-30, 19:52:

I don't know how it is possible to address more than 1 MB memory on 8086/88 CPUs

It is not possible, but it is also not necessary for XMS.

analog_programmer wrote on 2025-08-30, 19:52:

If for the software part (8086 XMS manager or driver) there's accessible physical memory beyond the 1 MB CPU address limit, then it uses it like in the EMS scheme - through "window" for XMS "pages" in "upper memory", which is directly accessible by the 8086/88 CPUs, right?

The XMS API does not deal with physical addresses, it only exposes the data through copy operations - so it does not matter where the data is actually stored, as long as the xms driver manages to get it and feed it to the buffer provided by the client program.

analog_programmer wrote on 2025-08-30, 19:52:

Also, I want to congratulate you as you are the creator of SvarDOS project. I hope it will be a much better DOS alternative, than the stalled FreeDOS

Thank you, I'm glad you appreciate the effort - but while I did build the general framework, the installer, package manager and some other tools, I also benefited from a huge boost from Bernd Böckmann and E.C. Masloch due to their excellent work on the EDR kernel. Their contributions were quite a game changer for SvarDOS.

analog_programmer wrote on 2025-08-30, 19:52:

I don't like the "Svar" name's part,. which is a direct reference to the false "slavonic" mythology

You are correct that it is uncertain wheter or not Сварог was ever an actual pagan deity, it might have been invented in early christian days as a slavonic parallel to hellenic mythology.

Yet "Svar" is not about religion. It relates to heat, fire, forging and welding - all generally associated with blacksmith. The word has been around for at least over a thousand years and it is a good symbolic reflection I think of what SvarDOS is about.

Thanks for your more exact explanation on how the exms86.sys actually works, mateusz.viste! Actually I thought the same, just wrote it with non-proper words/terminology.

So, basically in DOS we can also have (for example) 63 MB accessible extended memory in addition to first 1 MB ("base" + "upper") memory on 386SX CPU, instead of its hardware limit of 16 MB (15 MB extended), if someone writes a new XMS manager/driver like yours for 8086/88 based systems. And this is really great! And one more time your work confirms the theory that corporate software development intentionally never f*cks-up the hardware selling schemes like:
"- Hey, user, we have a brand new 286 CPU with more features compared to your obsolete 8086 sh*t. Now 286 CPU supports up to 16 MB RAM! Go buy it!
- But I just upgraded my 8086 XT system with V30 and started a project for software extended mem...
- STFU, m*ron! You'll need our new 286 hardware for this! Go buy it now!
- Ok, Ok, I'll buy it..."
Nowadays the planned obsolescence is well known fact, not just a "conspiracy theory" 😉

So, SvarDOS is a real and pretty well made thing and not some imaginary/false "history" and this is the reason why I don't like the "Svar(og)" part in the name. But it is as it is and it was your personal decision from years ago, so it's already established as a known name 😀 And I hope the only thing I'll continue to dislike in SvarDOS (at least it's not "SlavsDOS" which will be like "DOS for slaves") in the future to remain that part of the name, 'cause currently I already don't like the entire FreeDOS project development direction.

P.S. I'm wondering why there's no popular SvarDOS topic in this forum? Or maybe there is, but I'm missing it.