DesktopDynamite wrote on 2025-09-05, 07:40:

Attached also 4x PCI Gfx cards, and was told that the ARK2000 is the most compatible.

I would go for the Trio64 V2. Highly compatible with DOS games.

mtest001 wrote on 2025-09-05, 08:15:

DesktopDynamite wrote on 2025-09-05, 07:40:

Attached also 4x PCI Gfx cards, and was told that the ARK2000 is the most compatible.

I would go for the Trio64 V2. Highly compatible with DOS games.

ARK 2000 should have excellent dos comptibility and performance wise the PCI version shouldn’t be bad either.

Motherboards:
The Jetway all the way.

Jetway is a pretty low-end brand, but still better than PC Chips - and this particular PC Chips model (M537) was notorious for a 5V>3.3V voltage regulator that couldn't take the load and tended to fail spectacularly taking the board and frequently CPU down with it. Also the Via VPX chipset is pretty lacklustre. The Jetway board has a SiS 5571 chipset, which was actually pretty good - not a top performer, but solid, with a mix of i430VX and i430HX-level features plus UDMA 33, which both lack.

As for the VGA cards, what OS do you want to run, and if DOS what kind of games?
- in DOS the ARK2000 is probably the fastest PCI option you can find. Its Windows performance is poor however. Its VESA SVGA compatibility is good, but not perfect.
- S3 Trio gives much better Windows 2D performance and only very slightly lower DOS performance. Its VESA SVGA compatibility is also good, but not perfect - with different issues to the ARK2000. A lot of S3 cards suffer from poor analog output quality (blue or yellow discoloration) - although not all, so check your specific cards - particularly the Trio64v2/DX, which looks to be of very cheap build quality.
- Oak is notoriously slow in DOS and Windows, but VESA SVGA compatibility is pretty good too.

Two points:
1) VESA SVGA compatibility is frequently less of an issue than it is made out to be. It's only relevant to DOS SVGA games and even within that relatively small selection, only a handfull are notoriously difficult. Take a look at this overview. If you intend to play one of the games listed, be sure to choose something that plays nicely with it. If not it's entirely possible you will never face issues, so don't over-think this one, certainly not when all your options have above average compatibility anyway.
2) with vintage PC gaming, faster is NOT always better. In particular a lot of older DOS titles are speed sensitive and can be unplayable or downright buggy if your system is too fast. So there may be games that play better with the Oak card than the Ark card 😮

As for sound cards...

You say you have AWE32 and AWE64, but you post a pic of a CT2770 SB16. The Sound Blaster 16 range are a solid choice for software compatibility, but all are buggy in at least one way, sometimes multiple bugs, and sound quality also varies, with earlier models being noisy and later models having a Creative-designed 'CQM' FM-synth chip instead of Yamaha's OPL3, which many consider to sound worse. Exactly what to expect depend on the exacct model, and in some cases (such as your CT2770) it can even differ within a single model on what chip Creative was using the day your was made. Here an overview.

Your CT2770 has minor hanging note bugs in MIDI, it has slowdowns when high quality digital audio is played at the same time as MIDI music, it shares with all early SB16 occasional clicking sounds and it may be noisy depending on the version of the CT1703 DAC. Yours has the CT1703-T, which is intermediate - not terrible but not noise-free either.
The MIDI bugs are only relevant if you use the MPU-401 MIDI interface on the card with an external MIDI device. Yours doesn't have a wavetable header, so that would mean using an external sound module (something like the Roland SC-55)

If you do actually have AWE32 or 64, look up the exact CTxxxx model number. Here again, what you play and what sort of bugs bother you will determine which is the best choice. Early DOS games make a lot of use of FM synth, and later SB16 cards (including all AWE64 and some AWE32) have that CQM. If you play them, an earlier card (such as the CT2770 or an early AWE32) would be better - unless you actually like how CQM sounds (lots of comparisons between OPL and CQM on Youtube). Later titles tend to use more digital audio and MIDI (if you have a MIDI device, of course). Only the very oldest and newest (AWE64) SB16 are free of MIDI bugs and in particular you REALLY want to avoid the cards with the 'type 1' hanging note bugs. The AWE64 give nice clear sound, but CQM FM. The earliest SB16 give bug-free MIDI and OPL3, but are noisy as hell. Or break out the soldering kit - you can replace the DSP of a mid-period SB16 to get OPL3 and bug free MIDI - but you'll keep the single cycle DMA clicks.

TLDR: SB16s are a buggy mess. If you care about how it sounds, you can dive really deep down the rabbit hole. Or do what I did: ditch the whole steaming pile and go with a clone; SB16 clones are rare but they exist and a good one gives the magic trio of no MIDI bugs, real OPL3 (or 1:1 clone) and no self-noise. However compatibility is less than 100% and a lot of cards with them tend to be of poor quality. Chips to look for in that case are C-Media CM8330 and Avance Logic ALS100 (*not* ALS100 Plus which lacks high DMA support).

dionb wrote on 2025-09-05, 11:11:

Motherboards: The Jetway all the way. […]
Show full quote

Motherboards:
The Jetway all the way.

Jetway is a pretty low-end brand, but still better than PC Chips - and this particular PC Chips model (M537) was notorious for a 5V>3.3V voltage regulator that couldn't take the load and tended to fail spectacularly taking the board and frequently CPU down with it. Also the Via VPX chipset is pretty lacklustre. The Jetway board has a SiS 5571 chipset, which was actually pretty good - not a top performer, but solid, with a mix of i430VX and i430HX-level features plus UDMA 33, which both lack.

As for the VGA cards, what OS do you want to run, and if DOS what kind of games?
- in DOS the ARK2000 is probably the fastest PCI option you can find. Its Windows performance is poor however. Its VESA SVGA compatibility is good, but not perfect.
- S3 Trio gives much better Windows 2D performance and only very slightly lower DOS performance. Its VESA SVGA compatibility is also good, but not perfect - with different issues to the ARK2000. A lot of S3 cards suffer from poor analog output quality (blue or yellow discoloration) - although not all, so check your specific cards - particularly the Trio64v2/DX, which looks to be of very cheap build quality.
- Oak is notoriously slow in DOS and Windows, but VESA SVGA compatibility is pretty good too.

Two points:
1) VESA SVGA compatibility is frequently less of an issue than it is made out to be. It's only relevant to DOS SVGA games and even within that relatively small selection, only a handfull are notoriously difficult. Take a look at this overview. If you intend to play one of the games listed, be sure to choose something that plays nicely with it. If not it's entirely possible you will never face issues, so don't over-think this one, certainly not when all your options have above average compatibility anyway.
2) with vintage PC gaming, faster is NOT always better. In particular a lot of older DOS titles are speed sensitive and can be unplayable or downright buggy if your system is too fast. So there may be games that play better with the Oak card than the Ark card 😮

As for sound cards...

You say you have AWE32 and AWE64, but you post a pic of a CT2770 SB16. The Sound Blaster 16 range are a solid choice for software compatibility, but all are buggy in at least one way, sometimes multiple bugs, and sound quality also varies, with earlier models being noisy and later models having a Creative-designed 'CQM' FM-synth chip instead of Yamaha's OPL3, which many consider to sound worse. Exactly what to expect depend on the exacct model, and in some cases (such as your CT2770) it can even differ within a single model on what chip Creative was using the day your was made. Here an overview.

Your CT2770 has minor hanging note bugs in MIDI, it has slowdowns when high quality digital audio is played at the same time as MIDI music, it shares with all early SB16 occasional clicking sounds and it may be noisy depending on the version of the CT1703 DAC. Yours has the CT1703-T, which is intermediate - not terrible but not noise-free either.
The MIDI bugs are only relevant if you use the MPU-401 MIDI interface on the card with an external MIDI device. Yours doesn't have a wavetable header, so that would mean using an external sound module (something like the Roland SC-55)

If you do actually have AWE32 or 64, look up the exact CTxxxx model number. Here again, what you play and what sort of bugs bother you will determine which is the best choice. Early DOS games make a lot of use of FM synth, and later SB16 cards (including all AWE64 and some AWE32) have that CQM. If you play them, an earlier card (such as the CT2770 or an early AWE32) would be better - unless you actually like how CQM sounds (lots of comparisons between OPL and CQM on Youtube). Later titles tend to use more digital audio and MIDI (if you have a MIDI device, of course). Only the very oldest and newest (AWE64) SB16 are free of MIDI bugs and in particular you REALLY want to avoid the cards with the 'type 1' hanging note bugs. The AWE64 give nice clear sound, but CQM FM. The earliest SB16 give bug-free MIDI and OPL3, but are noisy as hell. Or break out the soldering kit - you can replace the DSP of a mid-period SB16 to get OPL3 and bug free MIDI - but you'll keep the single cycle DMA clicks.

TLDR: SB16s are a buggy mess. If you care about how it sounds, you can dive really deep down the rabbit hole. Or do what I did: ditch the whole steaming pile and go with a clone; SB16 clones are rare but they exist and a good one gives the magic trio of no MIDI bugs, real OPL3 (or 1:1 clone) and no self-noise. However compatibility is less than 100% and a lot of cards with them tend to be of poor quality. Chips to look for in that case are C-Media CM8330 and Avance Logic ALS100 (*not* ALS100 Plus which lacks high DMA support).

Woah what a detailed description!
Thanks for the guidance.. Regarding the sound card you're correct.. It's the SB16, hence I will resort to the other one which is the Creative AWE64 value CT4500.

As for games am aiming for 1993 onwards, in my mind have Hocus Pocus, Death Rally, Broken Sword, Street Fighter 2 turbo, Mortal kombat 1 till Trilogy, Risky Woods, Nicky Boom, Humans, Soccer Kid, Jazz Jack Rabbit, Doofus, Double Dragon.... I should be using the gravis joypads, the common famous one and the one which is the playstation look alike.

Ok then will go with the Jetway, once I get it running, BIOS update will be the first thing to check.

Motherboard Jetway j-571b removed from old case and fully cleaned up with IPA.

Upon removing the cooler from the CPU I have noticed that I have the Pentium 200 MMX... Now as for the range of games I listed, should I use this CPU or use the 166 one?

Also could you please determine how much total RAM I have in this motherboard as per attached photos?

I have browsed the manual of the board and seems there are quite a few jumpers to set, hence, from my little experience I guess that it would not be possible to downclock the speed in Mhz of the CPU via BIOS menus, or perhaps am limited with some preset values?

I have watched various videos regarding downclocking, and seems I need to emphasize on trying programs such as "setmul", watched 136 in 1 by Phil's lab seems to do the trick...

Yes, this is generally how it works with these older boards. You can't change the clock speed in the BIOS, you can only choose from a limited set of clock multipliers by setting jumpers, for example 1.5x, 2x, 2.5x and so on. The other variable is the base clock speed of the board which is also set by jumpers, for example, 60, 66, 75, 83 and 100 MHz. The final CPU speed is then clock speed * multiplier.

You can underclock your CPU using these jumper settings, but I would set the CPU to run at its regular speed and then use software methods for undercocking, this gives you the most flexibility. There's setmul, and there's also Throttle: http://www.oldskool.org/pc/throttle/DOS/

List of games known to be problematic with fast CPUs: https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/List_of_ … sensitive_games

So, first of all, the need to slow down the PC will probably not be a concern for you if you intend to only play games from 1993 onward. As for which CPU to use they're not that far apart in terms of performance, but might as well go with the 200MMX.

How much RAM you have can be determined by powering on the system and seeing what value you get 😀

Also note that the heatsink in the photo is not in the right place. It should ideally cover the entire CPU.

devius wrote on 2025-09-06, 20:14:

So, first of all, the need to slow down the PC will probably not be a concern for you if you intend to only play games from 1993 onward. As for which CPU to use they're not that far apart in terms of performance, but might as well go with the 200MMX.

How much RAM you have can be determined by powering on the system and seeing what value you get 😀

Also note that the heatsink in the photo is not in the right place. It should ideally cover the entire CPU.

Thanks, yes, the photo is when I removed the mobo from it's old case. I have aligned the heatsink accordingly.

I still need to check the PSU first as I tested the voltages and the 12V rails output was 9V, hence I definitely need to replace.

It's alive!

32mb of RAM

Good sign it's working and POSTing. On the other hand, that memory test fail is a bit concerning.

dionb wrote on 2025-09-05, 11:11:

As for sound cards... […]
Show full quote

As for sound cards...

You say you have AWE32 and AWE64, but you post a pic of a CT2770 SB16. The Sound Blaster 16 range are a solid choice for software compatibility, but all are buggy in at least one way, sometimes multiple bugs, and sound quality also varies, with earlier models being noisy and later models having a Creative-designed 'CQM' FM-synth chip instead of Yamaha's OPL3, which many consider to sound worse. Exactly what to expect depend on the exacct model, and in some cases (such as your CT2770) it can even differ within a single model on what chip Creative was using the day your was made. Here an overview.

Your CT2770 has minor hanging note bugs in MIDI, it has slowdowns when high quality digital audio is played at the same time as MIDI music, it shares with all early SB16 occasional clicking sounds and it may be noisy depending on the version of the CT1703 DAC. Yours has the CT1703-T, which is intermediate - not terrible but not noise-free either.
The MIDI bugs are only relevant if you use the MPU-401 MIDI interface on the card with an external MIDI device. Yours doesn't have a wavetable header, so that would mean using an external sound module (something like the Roland SC-55)

If you do actually have AWE32 or 64, look up the exact CTxxxx model number. Here again, what you play and what sort of bugs bother you will determine which is the best choice. Early DOS games make a lot of use of FM synth, and later SB16 cards (including all AWE64 and some AWE32) have that CQM. If you play them, an earlier card (such as the CT2770 or an early AWE32) would be better - unless you actually like how CQM sounds (lots of comparisons between OPL and CQM on Youtube). Later titles tend to use more digital audio and MIDI (if you have a MIDI device, of course). Only the very oldest and newest (AWE64) SB16 are free of MIDI bugs and in particular you REALLY want to avoid the cards with the 'type 1' hanging note bugs. The AWE64 give nice clear sound, but CQM FM. The earliest SB16 give bug-free MIDI and OPL3, but are noisy as hell. Or break out the soldering kit - you can replace the DSP of a mid-period SB16 to get OPL3 and bug free MIDI - but you'll keep the single cycle DMA clicks.

TLDR: SB16s are a buggy mess. If you care about how it sounds, you can dive really deep down the rabbit hole. Or do what I did: ditch the whole steaming pile and go with a clone; SB16 clones are rare but they exist and a good one gives the magic trio of no MIDI bugs, real OPL3 (or 1:1 clone) and no self-noise. However compatibility is less than 100% and a lot of cards with them tend to be of poor quality. Chips to look for in that case are C-Media CM8330 and Avance Logic ALS100 (*not* ALS100 Plus which lacks high DMA support).

Confirmed that I have both CT2770 and CT4500.. Now reading through all of pros and cons, I would like to install both cards, should be possible right for DOS 6.22 and Windows 95 OS r2? It is possible with the right IRQ / assignments?

Thing is I would like the Opl3 FM chip instead of the CQM offered from the CT4500.

TIA

DesktopDynamite wrote on 2025-09-07, 09:50:

It's alive!

32mb of RAM

Hi DesktopDynamite,

Now that you’ve got the Jetway board running, be sure to backup your present BIOS before you flash the latest Ver E01 09-26-1998 from TheRetroWeb.
I don’t see your present D01 04-22-1998 BIOS on TRW, so they sure like to have a copy. 😉

I have checked the J-571B E01 September 1998 BIOS for possible limitations regarding your build and was pleasantly surprised.
The CPU support in the E01 BIOS is excellent. Apart from the regular Pentium/MMX support, I see AMD K5/K6/K6-2/K6-3, Cyrix 6x86/MMX/MII, WinChip C6/2/2A/2B, and Rise mP6 support. Only K6-2+/III+ support is missing.
The IDE HDD support stops at 32GB and is probably the most limiting factor. Attaching any larger drive to the on-board IDE channels will hang the BIOS.

If you need K6-2+/III+ or >32GB HDD support, I can try to find an aftermarket BIOS upgrade for this board or make a patched BIOS. Let me know if you need this BIOS fixed.

Cheers, Jan

Chkcpu wrote on Yesterday, 11:54:

Hi DesktopDynamite, […]
Show full quote

DesktopDynamite wrote on 2025-09-07, 09:50:

It's alive!

32mb of RAM

Hi DesktopDynamite,

Now that you’ve got the Jetway board running, be sure to backup your present BIOS before you flash the latest Ver E01 09-26-1998 from TheRetroWeb.
I don’t see your present D01 04-22-1998 BIOS on TRW, so they sure like to have a copy. 😉

I have checked the J-571B E01 September 1998 BIOS for possible limitations regarding your build and was pleasantly surprised.
The CPU support in the E01 BIOS is excellent. Apart from the regular Pentium/MMX support, I see AMD K5/K6/K6-2/K6-3, Cyrix 6x86/MMX/MII, WinChip C6/2/2A/2B, and Rise mP6 support. Only K6-2+/III+ support is missing.
The IDE HDD support stops at 32GB and is probably the most limiting factor. Attaching any larger drive to the on-board IDE channels will hang the BIOS.

If you need K6-2+/III+ or >32GB HDD support, I can try to find an aftermarket BIOS upgrade for this board or make a patched BIOS. Let me know if you need this BIOS fixed.

Cheers, Jan

Hi Jan,

Thanks for your input.
Regarding BIOS flashing I don't have any devices to back it up. In the past I have flashed BIOS for Asus motherboards via UI or DOS prompt.. Hence I won't be doing the flashing if it requires a programmer of some sort.

As per requirements I think I ll just stick to a simple mechanical 3.2Gb hard drive, have a Seagate medalist lying here. Or use an IDE to CF / SD adapter.

Should I change my mind regarding drive space limitation will let you know.

Regards.

DesktopDynamite wrote on 2025-09-06, 18:12:

[...]
Also could you please determine how much total RAM I have in this motherboard as per attached photos?

Those SIMMs look very suspicious - not getting any hits on the code on the white sticker and the DRAM chips themselves look re-labeled. That said, if there are 8 chips per SIMM, 16MB seems most likely, so 2x 16MB = 32MB.

I have watched various videos regarding downclocking, and seems I need to emphasize on trying programs such as "setmul", watched 136 in 1 by Phil's lab seems to do the trick...

I always prefer to look at what the hardware can do first before breaking out all kinds of software tools.

Here the manual and jumper guide try to be 'helpful' by listing a huge list of CPUs and associated settings instead of just saying what the jumpers do. But a bit of reverse engineering gives us:

- JP9/4, 9/5 and 9/6 determine the bus speed:
On - On - On = 50MHz
Off - On - On = 55MHz
On - On - Off = 60MHz
On - Off - On = 66MHz
Off - On - Off = 75MHz

With three bits/jumpers you have 8 total settings, so there are three more that are undocumented- but on your photograph I can just about make out the PLL, which could be ICS 9169CJ-27. Looking at its datasheet you can fill in the blanks (0 is 'On', 1 is 'Off'):

Off - Off - Off = 68.5MHz
Off - Off -On = 83.3MHz (with 41.7MHz PCI...)

The final setting is also 75MHz, On - Off - Off, the difference is the PCI clock; On - Off - Off has 32MHz PCI, Off - On - Off does 37.5MHz PCI

The other pins (JP9/1 , 9/2 and 9/3) are for the mutiplier and connect to BF0/1/2 pins on the CPU. The mapping differs per CPU type, but for P55C (Pentium MMX), you get:
On - Off - any = 2.0x
On - On - any = 2.5x
Off - On - any = 3.0x
Off - Off - any = 3.5x

So for a P200MMX you'd normally have 3.0x 66MHz selected. If that's too fast, you can always drop FSB to lowest available speed, i.e. 50MHz. Assuming your CPU isn't multiplier locked (P200MMX usually isn't) you can drop that to lowest option tto, i.e. 2.0x, so you can run at 100MHz. After that you can look at disabling L2 or (drastic) L1 cache if needed.

DesktopDynamite wrote on Yesterday, 11:15:

[...] […]
Show full quote

[...]

Confirmed that I have both CT2770 and CT4500.. Now reading through all of pros and cons, I would like to install both cards, should be possible right for DOS 6.22 and Windows 95 OS r2? It is possible with the right IRQ / assignments?

Thing is I would like the Opl3 FM chip instead of the CQM offered from the CT4500.

TIA

It's definitely possible to have both installed at the same time with different settings for base address, IRQ and DMA.

Typical settings to use:
Older card A220 I7 D1 H5
Newer card A240 I5 D3 H6 P330

Assuming you don't have conflicting things on IRQ7 and DMA 1, 3, 5 or 6 this should work. Be sure to set the parallel port to SPP (so no DMA) and disable it.

Specifically FM is more tricky. By default it's a write-only interface to address 0x388, but it can also be addressed to the Sound Blaster base address +8/9. So if software talks to 0x388/9, both cards will make sound, but if the software talks to 0x228/9 or 0x248/9 only the card at that address will respond. It might be possible to disable the FM on the AWE64 mixer, but not too sure about that.