shevalier wrote on 2025-10-01, 14:24:

by the way A weird and rare mut from Asrock K8A780LM https://www.asrock.com/mb/photo/K8A780LM(M1).png AMD760/710 + socket754 + […]
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by the way
A weird and rare mut from Asrock
K8A780LM

AMD760/710 + socket754
+ problem-free SATA2
+ PCIe v2
+There are no issues with Hypertransport/PCIe/PCi frequencies.

Overall, the chipset is from a completely different era – AM3(+)

I have similar with S939: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/939A785GMH/index.asp

marxveix wrote on 2025-10-01, 15:22:

shevalier wrote on 2025-10-01, 14:24:

by the way A weird and rare mut from Asrock K8A780LM https://www.asrock.com/mb/photo/K8A780LM(M1).png AMD760/710 + socket754 + […]
Show full quote

by the way
A weird and rare mut from Asrock
K8A780LM

AMD760/710 + socket754
+ problem-free SATA2
+ PCIe v2
+There are no issues with Hypertransport/PCIe/PCi frequencies.

Overall, the chipset is from a completely different era – AM3(+)

I have similar with S939: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/939A785GMH/index.asp

And what are your impressions of this motherboard?

shevalier wrote on 2025-10-01, 15:34:

marxveix wrote on 2025-10-01, 15:22:

shevalier wrote on 2025-10-01, 14:24:

by the way A weird and rare mut from Asrock K8A780LM https://www.asrock.com/mb/photo/K8A780LM(M1).png AMD760/710 + socket754 + […]
Show full quote

by the way
A weird and rare mut from Asrock
K8A780LM

AMD760/710 + socket754
+ problem-free SATA2
+ PCIe v2
+There are no issues with Hypertransport/PCIe/PCi frequencies.

Overall, the chipset is from a completely different era – AM3(+)

I have similar with S939: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/939A785GMH/index.asp

And what are your impressions of this motherboard?

Havent touched it, its in the box. Just it wont take Win9x i think and i have to go with XP in the future. DualCore and dual ram + faster graphics for XP.

marxveix wrote on 2025-10-01, 15:44:

shevalier wrote on 2025-10-01, 15:34:

marxveix wrote on 2025-10-01, 15:22:

I have similar with S939: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/939A785GMH/index.asp

And what are your impressions of this motherboard?

Havent touched it, its in the box. Just it wont take Win9x i think and i have to go with XP in the future. DualCore and dual ram + faster graphics for XP.

PCIe devices on Windows 98 SE

shevalier wrote on 2025-10-01, 17:16:

marxveix wrote on 2025-10-01, 15:44:

shevalier wrote on 2025-10-01, 15:34:

And what are your impressions of this motherboard?

Havent touched it, its in the box. Just it wont take Win9x i think and i have to go with XP in the future. DualCore and dual ram + faster graphics for XP.

PCIe devices on Windows 98 SE

Problem is the chipset drivers or we have 760g/sb710 - 785g/sb71o drivers for Win9x, i dont need integrated vga drivers for HD3xxx/HD4xxx.

shevalier wrote on 2025-10-01, 12:36:

Mobile Athlon 64 4000+ will surpass everyone Or, at worst, Turion ML-44 They are rare and impossible to obtain. […]
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Mobile Athlon 64 4000+ will surpass everyone
Or, at worst, Turion ML-44
They are rare and impossible to obtain.

2.4-2,6GHz + 1Mb l2 cache
And high multiplier will not limit FSB (In fact, Hypertransport) overclocking.

Altough i will use high end parts, rare or unobtanium components are out of the question.
One goal is to have readily available components, easy to source. I appreciate the suggestions but you will see that everything I used can be bought off Ebay as of october 2025.

marxveix wrote on 2025-10-01, 19:04:

Problem is the chipset drivers or we have 760g/sb710 - 785g/sb71o drivers for Win9x, i dont need integrated vga drivers for HD3xxx/HD4xxx.

There are unified USB and SATA drivers for Windows 98.
Some PСIe video cards have a driver that works with Windows 98.
In theory, it will work.
Integrated video, sound and network into the chipset - of course not.

nd22 wrote on 2025-10-01, 20:07:

Altough i will use high end parts, rare or unobtanium components are out of the question.
One goal is to have readily available components, easy to source. I appreciate the suggestions but you will see that everything I used can be bought off Ebay as of october 2025.

Create a table of Socket 754 processors.
Distinguishing features of the high-end:
- 1 MB of L2 cache
- SSE3 support
- Frequency range: 2.4-2.6 GHz
- (optional) power consumption not exceeding 90 watts.

Everything else is very good, but not high-end.

PS. My own S754 hardware is a little above average, nothing more.

There is no official Athlon 64 on socket 754 that meets all those criteria! I will detail each part used and all the tests that I have done shortly.

"The best" S754 Athlon64 probably is 3600+-3700+ clawhammer, which fits all those requirements apart from SSE3 (why is it needed anyway?).

There are also Newark mobile Athlon64 3700+/4000+ which fit those requirements including SSE3 and ~60W TDP.

Both options are not easy to get, at least where i live mobile one being unobtainable.

Archer57 wrote on Today, 03:26:

"The best" S754 Athlon64 probably is 3600+-3700+ clawhammer, which fits all those requirements apart from SSE3 (why is it needed anyway?).

There are also Newark mobile Athlon64 3700+/4000+ which fit those requirements including SSE3 and ~60W TDP.

Both options are not easy to get, at least where i live mobile one being unobtainable.

Clawhammer - yes, it is considered the fastest of the usual ones.
But 90 watts...
So I decided I didn't need a top and specifically looked for Venice.
I tell everyone that the best BX is Athlon BX. (ADA3*00AIO4BX) 😀
ATI drivers can't detect SSE2 properly.
This is very stupid: if the frequency is higher than xxxMHz, it's SSE2. If lower, it's MMX.
Moreover, opinions differ: some say xxx=1.9 GHz, others 2.0 GHz. Therefore, it's better to get the 3200+, which definitely has 2.2 GHz.
But, unfortunately, I couldn't find it.

shevalier wrote on Today, 03:59:

Clawhammer - yes, it is considered the fastest of the usual ones. But 90 watts... So I decided I didn't need a top and specifica […]
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Clawhammer - yes, it is considered the fastest of the usual ones.
But 90 watts...
So I decided I didn't need a top and specifically looked for Venice.
I tell everyone that the best BX is Athlon BX. (ADA3*00AIO4BX) 😀
ATI drivers can't detect SSE2 properly.
This is very stupid: if the frequency is higher than xxxMHz, it's SSE2. If lower, it's MMX.
Moreover, opinions differ: some say xxx=1.9 GHz, others 2.0 GHz. Therefore, it's better to get the 3200+, which definitely has 2.2 GHz.
But, unfortunately, I couldn't find it.

Heat is not necessarily as problematic for this CPUs as it might seem judging by TDP numbers. This numbers are closer to what TDP actually is - a measure of how much heat cooling system needs to be able to dissipate worst case, not actual power consumption. On modern hardware "TDP" numbers they give are basically power limit and it will sit right at this limit all the time if loaded. This are two very different things - this athlon will not be nearly as hot as modern 90W CPU and any modern tower cooler will handle it easily and silently. Even 110W Athlon64 X2 4800+ i am using does not create any issues with simple 92mm tower - temperatures mostly sit around 40-45C.

And yeah, ATI drivers... that makes sense then 😁

Venice is pretty much the most common option from what i've seen, usually around ~3000+. Which makes sense - they were cheap back then, unlike first variants of S754 CPUs, especially those with 1MB cache.

Archer57 wrote on Today, 05:26:

Heat is not necessarily as problematic for this CPUs as it might seem judging by TDP numbers. This numbers are closer to what TDP actually is - a measure of how much heat cooling system needs to be able to dissipate worst case, not actual power consumption.

Moreover, due to differences in testing methods, AMD's 90W was equivalent to Intel's 65W.
AMD was forced to introduce the term "Average Processor Power" (ACP).
But in the 754/939 socket era, TDP was quite close to consumption.

nearly as hot as modern 90W CPU and any modern tower cooler

90W isn't a problem in the era of ferrite chokes and polymer capacitors.
A 20-year-old motherboard might not be able to handle a 90W processor simply because of its age.

By the way, Jetway K8T8AS is one of the few boards that has polymer capacitors in the VRM.
https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/jetway-k8t8as
But I don't recommend - a weak MOSFET in the Hypertransport power supply leads to some "wonderful" glitches.
Or maybe it's just my motherboard that's like that.
The motherboard also thinks that all Venices are Semprons and does not support the Cool-n-Quiet for them.
Well, and the K8T800 (non PRO) is a bit dull.
In the reference design, Hypertransport and AGP are clocked not just at the same frequency, but literally from the same pin of the clock chip.
An FSB frequency of 220 MHz is considered lucky.
Unlike the asynchronous nForce, where 275-300 MHz is an almost usual result.

I also can confirm that cooling 90-125W CPUs for s754 and AM2+ isn't a problem at all for modern coolers and the system will be quiet.

I have MSI K8T Neo V (https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/msi-k8t-neo-v) but didn't notice any instability. It isn't an overclocker's board, but worked fine. None of my s754 boards have problems with capacitors.

There is ADA3200AIO4BX (2.2Ghz) on sale for low price €14 on ebay right now. It seems the seller has 2 left. It's Venice with SSE3. https://www.ebay.de/itm/236030895621
Venice will very likely run at 2.4Ghz too without voltage bump. Buy it while it's still available.

In s754, anything from 2.2Ghz is decent. You are unlikely to find 2.4Ghz with 1MB L2 cache for a decent price.

Before going into systems details one question will pop up immediately: but integrated memory controller negates the need for a motherboard with a performance chipset with the only things that matters are processor and graphics card!
We shall see about that.
Another question that will come to everyone’s mind is: But wouldn’t a core 2 duo do the same thing only better?
Yes, it would. For those like me who experienced those years first hand a system like the one of those I am going to present carries a lot more nostalgia than an E8400 with lots of RAM and a high end PCI – express card.

Background story: back in 2004 I was able to buy for the first time what I considered to be the first high end platform after reading countless articles on the net and based on the recommendations that my best friend gave me : Athlon 64 2800, Abit KV8 pro, Leadtek geforce 6600gt. Up until than I had only Durons and K6-2.
I was so happy that I ran across town to get home as fast as possible after grabbing a big bottle of Coca Cola in order to stay up whole night! I assembled the whole system and installed XP and a few games. Late that evening I fired up Half life 2, put everything on max and ... slideshow!! I thought: well, this is not optimized, let's see Doom 3. Cranked up everything to the max and, of course, slideshow in the main menu, without even loading a level! Needless to say, I tried Farcry and some other games and of course performance was terrible at max details, I could count the frames!
You can not imagine how disappointed I was! It was like failing the an exam! Next day, after lots of hour at the faculty, I went straight to the shop my friend had – back than there were lots of small computer shops in my country – and told him outright he deceived me when he said the configuration he made for me was OK. He laughed for 5 minutes while I was furious!
He said: let's go to my place and try the games on my system. I can't remember exactly what he had but the video card was a geforce 6800gt, a really expensive card that I could not afford! Of course all the games ran horrible, better than on the system I had but still like crap.
I still remember what he said: you really believe what Tom's or Anand tells you about that CPU and that card that offers smooth playability? It's all BS. You can't run anything at max even if you put down lots of cash. You bought an average system, you will get average performance, and even if you buy an expensive system you will get better performance but forget about max details!
Today I do now want to repeat the same experience! I want the dream experience, when I play Farcry I want to play with the settings turned all the way up including AA and AF. That’s why the target period for socket 754 is 2000 – 2004. Going beyond 2004 is beyond the capabilities of the CPU, the graphics card or both; of course all will become clear when you will see the screenshots.

At the moment i have these Socket 754 cpu-s, maybe i have more:
AMD Mobile K8 Athlon XP-M 3000+ – AHN3000BIX3AY, Socket 754

AMD Athlon 64 2800+ – ADA2800AEP4AX NewCastle DH-CG Socket 754
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ – ADA3000AEP4AX NewCastle DH-CG Socket 754

AMD Sempron 64 2500+ – SDA2500AIO3BX Socket754
AMD Sempron 64 2600+ – SDA2600AIO2BX Socket754
AMD Sempron 64 2600+ – SDA2600AIO2BO Socket754
AMD Sempron 64 2800+ – SDA2800AIO3BX Socket754
AMD Sempron 64 2800+ – SDA2800AIO3BA Socket754
AMD Sempron 64 3000+ – SDA3000AIO2BX, SDA3000AIO2BA Socket754
AMD Sempron 64 3100+ – SDA3100AIO3BX Socket754

AMD Mobile Sempron 2800+ – SMS2800BQX3LF L2 256kb Roma Socket 754
AMD Mobile Sempron 2800+ – SMS2800BOX3LB L2 256kb Sonora Socket 754
AMD Mobile Sempron 3000+ – SMS3000BQX2LF Roma DH-E6 Socket 754
AMD Mobile Sempron 3100+ – SMS3100BQX3LFx2 Socet 754
AMD Mobile Sempron 3300+ – SMS3300BQX2LFx4 E6 Roma 128kb, Socet 754
AMD Mobile Sempron 3300+ – SMN3300BKX2BX Albany E6, 62W, Socket 754

AMD Turion 64 Mobile ML-28 – TMDML28BKX4LD Socket 754
AMD Turion 64 Mobile MT-32 – TMSMT32BQX4LD Socket 754
AMD Turion 64 Mobile ML-32 – TMDML32BKX4LD Socket 754
AMD Turion 64 Mobile ML-34 – TMDML34BKX5LD Socket 754
AMD Turion 64 Mobile ML-37 – TMDML37BKX5LD Socket 754

AMD Mobile Athlon 64 3000+ 1800Mhz (AMA3400BEX5AR ClawHammer CG) Socket 754
AMD Mobile Athlon 64 3200+ 2000MHz (AMN3200BKX5BU Newark E5) Socket754
AMD Mobile Athlon 64 3400+ 2200Mhz (AMA3400BEX5AR ClawHammer CG) Socket 754

SMS3300BQX2LF i have 4pcs maybe its better to take out ML-37 and use Sempron 3300+?
It has lower graphics card anyway, still 3400+ is missing from Mobile Sempron + 25w cpu!
Does the Sempron 3300+ and Radeon 9600xt work better together, less bottlenecking???
Of course this Mobile Sempron 3300+ is slower and it has only 128kb cache vs 1mb@turion
3400+ has 256kb and that would be the maximum Mobile Semrpon for Socket754 system

2.4GHz i dont have yet, max is 2.2GHz @ my 754cpu collection.

nd22 wrote on Today, 14:05:

Today I do now want to repeat the same experience! I want the dream experience, when I play Farcry I want to play with the settings turned all the way up including AA and AF. That’s why the target period for socket 754 is 2000 – 2004. Going beyond 2004 is beyond the capabilities of the CPU, the graphics card or both; of course all will become clear when you will see the screenshots.

Paired with a decent GPU it can do better. It can handle both Far Cry (2004) and FEAR (2005) with maximum details at 1600x1200. Need for Speed: Most Wanted (2005) runs fine too, but car reflection refresh rate must be set to low (high overloads cpu). Some later less demanding games such as Fifa 2007, Nhl 2007 work great at max details. It can also play Crysis (2007) in 1600x1200 with high preset and 4x anti-aliasing at about 30 fps in game (25fps in benchmark). Not a slide show, not that great either. Would probably run better with some details turned down.

You should definitely include FEAR and Crysis in the benchmarks. It will be interesting to compare how different GPUs handle it. From PCIe GPUs it would be great to include GeForce 8800 GT/9800 GT/250GTS and GeForce GTX 260/275/280. Those are high-end for s754/s939 and underpowered for AM2(+).

marxveix wrote on Today, 14:11:

At the moment i have these Socket 754 cpu-s, maybe i have more: AMD Mobile K8 Athlon XP-M 3000+ – AHN3000BIX3AY, Socket 754 […]
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At the moment i have these Socket 754 cpu-s, maybe i have more:
AMD Mobile K8 Athlon XP-M 3000+ – AHN3000BIX3AY, Socket 754

AMD Athlon 64 2800+ – ADA2800AEP4AX NewCastle DH-CG Socket 754
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ – ADA3000AEP4AX NewCastle DH-CG Socket 754

AMD Sempron 64 2500+ – SDA2500AIO3BX Socket754
AMD Sempron 64 2600+ – SDA2600AIO2BX Socket754
AMD Sempron 64 2600+ – SDA2600AIO2BO Socket754
AMD Sempron 64 2800+ – SDA2800AIO3BX Socket754
AMD Sempron 64 2800+ – SDA2800AIO3BA Socket754
AMD Sempron 64 3000+ – SDA3000AIO2BX, SDA3000AIO2BA Socket754
AMD Sempron 64 3100+ – SDA3100AIO3BX Socket754

AMD Mobile Sempron 2800+ – SMS2800BQX3LF L2 256kb Roma Socket 754
AMD Mobile Sempron 2800+ – SMS2800BOX3LB L2 256kb Sonora Socket 754
AMD Mobile Sempron 3000+ – SMS3000BQX2LF Roma DH-E6 Socket 754
AMD Mobile Sempron 3100+ – SMS3100BQX3LFx2 Socet 754
AMD Mobile Sempron 3300+ – SMS3300BQX2LFx4 E6 Roma 128kb, Socet 754
AMD Mobile Sempron 3300+ – SMN3300BKX2BX Albany E6, 62W, Socket 754

AMD Turion 64 Mobile ML-28 – TMDML28BKX4LD Socket 754
AMD Turion 64 Mobile MT-32 – TMSMT32BQX4LD Socket 754
AMD Turion 64 Mobile ML-32 – TMDML32BKX4LD Socket 754
AMD Turion 64 Mobile ML-34 – TMDML34BKX5LD Socket 754
AMD Turion 64 Mobile ML-37 – TMDML37BKX5LD Socket 754

AMD Mobile Athlon 64 3000+ 1800Mhz (AMA3400BEX5AR ClawHammer CG) Socket 754
AMD Mobile Athlon 64 3200+ 2000MHz (AMN3200BKX5BU Newark E5) Socket754
AMD Mobile Athlon 64 3400+ 2200Mhz (AMA3400BEX5AR ClawHammer CG) Socket 754

SMS3300BQX2LF i have 4pcs maybe its better to take out ML-37 and use Sempron 3300+?
It has lower graphics card anyway, still 3400+ is missing from Mobile Sempron + 25w cpu!
Does the Sempron 3300+ and Radeon 9600xt work better together, less bottlenecking???
Of course this Mobile Sempron 3300+ is slower and it has only 128kb cache vs 1mb@turion
3400+ has 256kb and that would be the maximum Mobile Semrpon for Socket754 system

2.4GHz i dont have yet, max is 2.2GHz @ my 754cpu collection.

You got quite a nice collection there! You will see some high end CPU's, all desktop versions but exotic ones.

AlexZ wrote on Today, 16:12:

nd22 wrote on Today, 14:05:

Today I do now want to repeat the same experience! I want the dream experience, when I play Farcry I want to play with the settings turned all the way up including AA and AF. That’s why the target period for socket 754 is 2000 – 2004. Going beyond 2004 is beyond the capabilities of the CPU, the graphics card or both; of course all will become clear when you will see the screenshots.

Paired with a decent GPU it can do better. It can handle both Far Cry (2004) and FEAR (2005) with maximum details at 1600x1200. Need for Speed: Most Wanted (2005) runs fine too, but car reflection refresh rate must be set to low (high overloads cpu). Some later less demanding games such as Fifa 2007, Nhl 2007 work great at max details. It can also play Crysis (2007) in 1600x1200 with high preset and 4x anti-aliasing at about 30 fps in game (25fps in benchmark). Not a slide show, not that great either. Would probably run better with some details turned down.

You should definitely include FEAR and Crysis in the benchmarks. It will be interesting to compare how different GPUs handle it. From PCIe GPUs it would be great to include GeForce 8800 GT/9800 GT/250GTS and GeForce GTX 260/275/280. Those are high-end for s754/s939 and underpowered for AM2(+).

Because this is a comparative - that means identical graphics cards on all the systems - you will not see anything later than geforce 7000 series and radeon x1k series.
And no, a radeon 3850 will not help you play 2005 games at max details! In fact one of the games in the testing suite has been tested with AA disabled!