I know that video and i watched all Phil's videos like 3 times already!

marxveix wrote on 2025-10-04, 16:01:

Here its visible 128kb cache vs 256kb cache with Sempron 754 cpus / sometimes bigger cache is better than 200Mhz higher clocks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKMWlezaUeI

Absolutely.
But this video doesn't show the difference between 256, 512, and 1024k L2 Cache.
Anyone with a 2GHz Sempron Palermo can post the results in Linpack.
Same conditions: Hypertransport - as close to 800MHz as possible, RAM - 200MHz, 3-3-3-8 CR2.
The version of LynX is 0.6.4, because in 0.6.5 the Linpack library was changed, and it produces different results.

3. Chipsets and motherboards: unlike later sockets where only a handful a manufacturers made chipsets, on socket 754 there are plenty to choose from: NVIDIA, VIA, SIS, ULI and ATI. The main players are, just like on socket A, NVIDIA and VIA again but you should not disregard the others!
To better understand what we will be dealing with I will say a few words about the various chipsets.

NVIDIA with nForce is a major player in the socket 754 market and has 3 chipsets:
- nforce3 150 is the first NVIDIA chipset for the socket launched in September 2003. A major downside is the hypertransport speed: only 600 MHz lower than the official AMD specification of 800 MHz. It also lacks any kind of integrated SATA controller and, crucially, lacks the famous sound storm; it has a PATA 133 controller but otherwise it is very poor from the features point of view.
- Nforce3 250 is the next revision of the chipset; it is so different from the original that I consider it to be a completely different chipset; it has integrated SATA; has “fixed” hypertransport speed and it is available in 2 different versions on socket 754: the standard nforce3 250 and the nforce3 250GB. The only difference between the 2 is the gigabit LAN integrated in the latter.
- Nforce4 is the one and only chipset available with PCI – express! There are some exotic boards out there - for example the one mentioned by SHEVALIER: https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/asrock-k8a780lm - also with PCI-express that appeared much later, but those are unicorns so the ones you are most likely to find are based on nforce4! For that reason alone it is very important; today high end AGP graphics cards have become very expensive and rare so a PCI – express solution is highly desirable! Only the basic version known as 4X because of the 800 MHz hypertransport speed is available on socket 754 with SATA first generation, basic 100 LAN (on the board I used) and standard Realtek AC97 codec. We shall see how it compares to the “classic” AGP chipsets!

VIA is the other major player on the socket 754 arena with the K8 series.
- K8T800 is the other launch chipset for the Athlon 64 that appeared in September 2003 together with the very first model. A “classic” chipset with Northbridge and Southbridge, it features integrated SATA and a V – link connecting the Northbridge to the Southbridge at 533 Mb. It lacks an AGP/PCI lock for those interested in overclocking!
- K8M800 is the same chipset as above, only with integrated graphics – so not interesting for our purposes!
- K8T800 PRO is a slight revision of the same basic chipset; it has an improved connection between the Northbridge and the Southbridge at 1066 Mb and for the overclockers an asynchronous bus – that means fixed AGP/PCI frequency regardless of the processor’s speed.

ULI (formerly known as ALI) is also present in the socket 754 chipset market with M1600 series.
- M1687 is a chipset launched together with the competing products from NVIDIA and VIA. Implemented in very few boards (I know of Soyo K8USA but nothing else) it lacks SATA and many quality of life features.
- ULI M1689 is the next chipset launched in 2004. A single chip solution like nforce3, with integrated SATA, it represents an alternative to nforce3 and K8T800.

Where is the rest? Where are SIS and ATI? There are none others because Abit did not manufacture a single socket 754 model with a SIS or ATI chipset! SIS 755 is another chipset launched with the rest in September 2003 while SIS 760 features a Mirage 2 integrated graphics core that nobody is interested in!
Details about each model used will be seen when I put up system details.

4. Coolers: a major advantage of socket 754 is the fact that you can use modern coolers with it! In fact stock AMD cooler is compatible between socket 754, 939, AM2, AM2+, AM3 and AM3+.
You will see besides the stock AMD cooler the Arctic cooling freezer 7, a completely overkill cooler – all processors run very cool and you don’t actually need an aftermarket one unless you plan to overclock.

Yeah I loved that AMD was much more upgrader friendly like that!

Also, the stock coolers varied in quality by quite a bit - lower end CPUs usually came with aluminum heat sinks that were, uh, adequate. But with some of their hotter CPUs they had 100% copper with heatpipes. This was what was on the AM2 6000+ I have (though I wish that mine looked this nice, it was stored in a damp environment and the copper is dull).

Repo Man11 wrote on 2025-10-06, 02:35:

Also, the stock coolers varied in quality by quite a bit - lower end CPUs usually came with aluminum heat sinks that were, uh, adequate. But with some of their hotter CPUs they had 100% copper with heatpipes. This was what was on the AM2 6000+ I have (though I wish that mine looked this nice, it was stored in a damp environment and the copper is dull).

I got that one and you will see it in the pictures!

5. Video card(s): on socket 754 you got the choice between AGP and PCI – express. Ideally you need a card available in both AGP and PCI – express form factor in order to get comparable results! Because the processor available on 754 are much more powerful than those on socket 462 I choose to test with 2 cards: a NVIDIA one that you have seen in the socket A tests and a Radeon one in order to get a general picture about what kind of card you really need to get a balanced system and to see what (if any) problems appear when you use a card from either vendor!

Repo Man11 wrote on 2025-10-06, 02:35:

Also, the stock coolers varied in quality by quite a bit - lower end CPUs usually came with aluminum heat sinks that were, uh, adequate. But with some of their hotter CPUs they had 100% copper with heatpipes. This was what was on the AM2 6000+ I have (though I wish that mine looked this nice, it was stored in a damp environment and the copper is dull).

AMD stock cooler with heat pipes is a must-have for every collector.
Only it will cool either the VRM or the chipset.
Something in the shape of a daisy flower would be much better on motherboards of that era.

nd22 wrote on 2025-10-06, 04:15:

...Because the processor available on 754 are much more powerful than those on socket 462...

But are they? From what i've seen with s939 single core CPUs they are not all that different from AthlonXP at the same frequency. Yes, there are improvements and they are faster, partly because of integrated memory controller, but not dramatically so. I'd expect <20% difference and that is with dual channel memory on s939.

S754 is also a downgrade from S462 in a sense that it only has single channel memory...

If anything it would be fun to see that 3400+/2.2Ghz Athlon64 compared to 3200+/2.2Ghz AthlonXP directly.

We shall see that in Part 2! Now let's continue with the presentation:
The vast majority of boards you will come across will use AGP therefore many tests have been done with one of the most powerful AGP card from Nvidia!
The NVIDIA card is the one and only Geforce 7800gs from Leadtek; you have seen it in action hundreds of times on the socket 462 comparative. One of the most powerful AGP card from team green it was bottlenecked by the Athlon XP; now we shall see if Athlon 64 is good enough to unleash the full potential of it!

The ATI card is stronger than 7800gs; it is one of the most powerful AGP card ever manufactured: Radeon X1950 PRO. I got 2 identical models from sapphire: both with 512 MB of RAM, stock clocks and identical looks apart from the connector! Maybe it will be bottlenecked by the processor, maybe not; we will see when we get to the results!

This solves a very serious problem: having 2 identical cards in both AGP and PCI-express form factor!
Here is the AGP version - very expensive today and highly collectible - getting some TLC:

.. and the PCI-express one under the same treatment:

Radeon X1950 PRO-s are nice cards and they support 1080p h264 in hardware as well with correct drivers, i havent tested them out with Bluray or 1080p h264 clips, but i am sure they work with PowerDVD7 or someting like that. I have one with the Club3D and PCI-E form. X1950 series has lovely dithering at 16bit color depth in D3D and they better support in general for older D3D7/8 games. Usually people think that from HD2xxx series they have 1080p h264 support.

That is good to know!
As you can see both cards have 512mb frame buffer - I wonder how that can help us in games - hint: Doom 3 😀 !!