Not really related, but maybe related. This whole thing is bigger than windows11 requiring an account. How much of the entire internet is microsoft controlling? I think I of places are just defaulting to them for services like email. Do places even have their own email servers at all, or is it all done via accounts with microsoft? A very "dangerous" trend

ncmark wrote on 2025-10-10, 11:41:

Not really related, but maybe related. This whole thing is bigger than windows11 requiring an account. How much of the entire internet is microsoft controlling? I think I of places are just defaulting to them for services like email. Do places even have their own email servers at all, or is it all done via accounts with microsoft? A very "dangerous" trend

I'm using Windows 11 ARM on Parallels Desktop without an online account.
I've started with Windows 11 23H2 and am using 24H2 now (because it has better x86/x64 support).
To my knowledge, it's Windows 11 25H2 that is going to drop local account.

But really, I'm still confused by the pro Win10/anti Win11 thinking on the internet. 🤔
They're basically same under the hood, like Vista/7 or 8/8.1. Why not like/dislike both same ways, at very least?

I still remember how people were wanting to keep Windows 7 and promised to never ever go Windows 10.
Yet for same reason Windows 10 has such a fan base.. I don’t get it. And perhaps that's better that way, anyway. 🙂

Edit: To answer the second part: A lot is on Microsoft servers meanwhile.
Here in Germany, a lot of stuff is on US servers in general. Which is very scary.
Teams, MS Office, MS Cloud etc. pp.

Example:
https://netzpolitik.org/2025/zentrum-fuer-dig … ine-in-den-weg/

English Translation

Every previous version of Windows garners a fanbase after the new version is released because each subsequent version is worse than the last, with a few exceptions.

Remember Vista was hated and 7 was welcomed as a relief, though still not as good as XP. Same thing with ME and XP.

3.1: fun, good for office work
95: great
NT4: for servers
98: uhhhh, WDM is neat I guess
98SE: getting increasingly nervous
ME: oh it's bad now
2000: cool, great workstation OS
XP: more bloated 2000 but at least it's stable... what do you mean my DOS games don't have sound?
Vista: dumpster fire
7: Vista but somewhat de-dumpsterified, still more bloated than XP, first mass adopted 64-bit Windows with all of the benefits (mostly RAM) that come with x64
8: new generation of marketers thought they were going to be real smart this time
10: 7 with more bloat, ads in the Start menu now
11: 10 with more bloat, Start menu and taskbar redesigned for no reason

keenmaster486 wrote on 2025-10-10, 15:17:

Every previous version of Windows garners a fanbase after the new version is released because each subsequent version is worse t […]
Show full quote

Every previous version of Windows garners a fanbase after the new version is released because each subsequent version is worse than the last, with a few exceptions.

Remember Vista was hated and 7 was welcomed as a relief, though still not as good as XP. Same thing with ME and XP.

3.1: fun, good for office work
95: great
NT4: for servers
98: uhhhh, WDM is neat I guess
98SE: getting increasingly nervous
ME: oh it's bad now
2000: cool, great workstation OS
XP: more bloated 2000 but at least it's stable... what do you mean my DOS games don't have sound?
Vista: dumpster fire
7: Vista but somewhat de-dumpsterified, still more bloated than XP, first mass adopted 64-bit Windows with all of the benefits (mostly RAM) that come with x64
8: new generation of marketers thought they were going to be real smart this time
10: 7 with more bloat, ads in the Start menu now
11: 10 with more bloat, Start menu and taskbar redesigned for no reason

You left out "AI all the things" for 11. That's my primary reason to not migrate to 11. Windows Recall is one of the most horrifying invasions of privacy I can possibly imagine. I don't want my operating system constantly trying to turn on a feature where everything I do is recorded (securely they say) for an AI to process in case I forget where I saved a file, or what my password was.

Jo22 wrote on 2025-10-10, 14:36:

But really, I'm still confused by the pro Win10/anti Win11 thinking on the internet. 🤔
They're basically same under the hood, like Vista/7 or 8/8.1. Why not like/dislike both same ways, at very least?

I'm basically forced to use Win11 for my work laptop. It's the only OS supported by the company's IT department. Linux can be used but has often some issues with company intranet access and integration with Microsoft email, Office, Teams, etc.

I have more issues with Win11 than I had with 10:
- The new right click menu!!!!! I have to hold down shift and click to get anything done. (I think there is also a registry hack but...)
- The mouse cursor sometimes disappears for ~10-15 seconds
- Windows explorer stops working occasionally (very annoying when I have just navigated to some long path and I'm forced to close the window to get it working again)
- When someone is sharing their screen in MS-Teams, and I have the Teams window minimized, the screen share will occasionally quickly blink on my screen
- Many other issues I forget...

keenmaster486 wrote on 2025-10-10, 15:17:

Every previous version of Windows garners a fanbase after the new version is released because each subsequent version is worse than the last, with a few exceptions.

Hi, I think the problem with this scheme is that someone can count as he/she wishs.

Windows 3.x alone consisted of Windows 3.0, 3.0a, Windows 3.0 MME, Windows 3.10, 3.11, Workgroups 3.10, 3.11, Windows for PenComputing, Windows 3.2 (China)..

Then comes Windows 95. It had a bunch of sub versions. RTM, A,B, C or all the different OSR versions.
Each with different levels of (in)stability..

Then all the different Service Packs of NT 4/2000/XP or Windows NT 3.1/3.50/3.51/3.51 with NewShell.

Or Vista with the Platform Update, which was basically Windows 7 but with a nicer GUI (and WDDM 1.0 drivers).

The scheme also doesn't take care of the server/embedded versions that were released in between the main releases.
Windows XP 64-Bit (intel, not itanium) was Windows NT 5.2, just like Windows Server 2003 was.

Windows 98FE was really not so great, though.
While it had some nice legacy parts such as WinG or old joystick support/API, its WDM support wasn't that great yet.
Most Windows 98 drivers/software assume Windows 98SE.

Windows Me was better than its reputation, also.
The problem was that it was sold as an upgrade, to be installed on top of a (buggy) Windows 9x installation.

So it was not seldomly thrown in the box of a new Windows 98 PC,
together with the others CDs full of drivers and bloatware.

That upgrade didn't work well, the modification of the existing registry and ini files caused a mess.
Most existing Windows 9x installations had lots of VXD drivers, too, causing stability problems.

However, Windows Me worked quite "okay" if a clean istallation was started from DOS or Windows 3.1x.:
A Windows 98SE CD could be used to boot into DOS 7.1, for example, to prepare the HDD.

Basically by running FDISK and FORMAT C: /B (/B reserves space for DOS 7 system files without writing them)..
The utilities were in D:\WIN98 and D:\WIN98\COMMAND if memory serves (Win98 CD).
Once a few dummy files (?) on C:\ were created (WINDOWS directory, WIN.COM file etc) the SETUP could be started from D:\WIN9X (Win Me CD)..

Oh, and the dongle thing wasn’t nice. 😟
Some Windows Me OEM CDs had a vendor lock (BIOS check to see if it's the right vendor).

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread and thus brought my attention to Mint.

I've installed Mint Cinnamon on a spare PC to check it out, and I've been trying to find something it can't do that I can on my main Windows PC, but no, everything works just as well on Mint as Windows.
So once I get my files organized I'll be moving across to Mint permanently, but I'll leave my modern gaming PC with Win10 for now.

Windows 12 will require each registered user to wear an ankle bracelet, which will need to be purchased separately. MS will continue to have 90% market share. Consumers will accept anything when it comes to tech.

I've tried a few Linux distros over the years, but never felt compelled to get over the initial learning curve - Linux might be faster, more efficient, more stable, used in most of the really serious stuff (business, banking, etc), but Windows, which I know and work with, does everything I need, so I've not had any real reason to concentrate on Linux, especially since nowadays I just don't have the enthusiasm or interest in learning anything new.

I mean, Linus doesn't even use drive letters to access drives and partitions. Probably Linux's method is better, maybe more secure or something, but even if so, it's irritating that something so basic should require a new method of access for someone who's spent decades basically just using muscle memory to access drives by C:, F:, etc, then Linux's way just seems overly complicated. Why can't a Linux distro made for ex-Window users somehow simulate using the Windows C: access method, as well as the Linux method?

I did find one distro that did this (Winux, I think, judging by google), tried a live version, and it did list all of the drives and partitions in the C:, D:, etc format, in the Linux version of Windows Explorer. And it also, according to the documentation, ran Windows .EXE files, just like Windows does. I thought "This is brilliant", so I loaded a small, simple Windows text editor (all of the software across the drives and partitions in the PC were Windows software, of course - only the Linux live USB stick was Linux). And the text editor took ages to load (which I thought/hoped was due to Winux doing some downloading or configuring that once done, wouldn't have had to be done again when running any .EXE program), but it did load. So I tried to load a file from it's FILE > OPEN menu, but it couldn't see any files. Presumably the C:, D:, etc support that Winux has did not extend into the Windows' text editor's file reading abilities.

Also, when I tried to start anything from Winux's menus (it's own built in Linux programs, I mean), it took ages to run, which was totally contrary to all of the other live Linux distros (including Linux Mint) that I've ran on the same PC, they all ran fast and responsive. So I gave up on Winux, but I think the idea is great - a version of Linux that runs all Window software simply by starting the .EXE, and uses the C:, D:, etc, drive/partition access method, and duplicates Windows' familiar user workings (such as left click and hold on a file, to drag it, etc) would really help Windows user to migrate to Linux. But maybe it's not technically possible on todays machines, it would be too hardware demanding or something, I don't know.

But wow, it would be great if it were possible.

Jo22 wrote on 2025-10-10, 14:36:

Here in Germany, a lot of stuff is on US servers in general. Which is very scary.
Teams, MS Office, MS Cloud etc. pp.

This is the reason why German and Austrian governments are looking for alternatives (and perhaps should fund such alterative BTW). Personally, I don't know anyone here who would voluntarily use Microsoft Cloud services.

Kerr Avon wrote on Yesterday, 15:26:

I mean, Linus doesn't even use drive letters to access drives and partitions. Probably Linux's method is better, maybe more secure or something, but even if so, it's irritating that something so basic should require a new method of access for someone who's spent decades basically just using muscle memory to access drives by C:, F:, etc, then Linux's way just seems overly complicated. Why can't a Linux distro made for ex-Window users somehow simulate using the Windows C: access method, as well as the Linux method?

There's /dev/SDA with numbers in Linux. It's not that complicated.

Kerr Avon wrote on Yesterday, 15:26:

Also, when I tried to start anything from Winux's menus (it's own built in Linux programs, I mean), it took ages to run, which was totally contrary to all of the other live Linux distros (including Linux Mint) that I've ran on the same PC, they all ran fast and responsive. So I gave up on Winux, but I think the idea is great - a version of Linux that runs all Window software simply by starting the .EXE, and uses the C:, D:, etc, drive/partition access method, and duplicates Windows' familiar user workings (such as left click and hold on a file, to drag it, etc) would really help Windows user to migrate to Linux. But maybe it's not technically possible on todays machines, it would be too hardware demanding or something, I don't know.

Ironically this has been done before, it was just OS/2 being a better Windows than Windows, rather than Linux. And of course, they had a source code license to Windows 3.x so they could do it.
The problem is that software targets the compatibility layer and the OS never gains a critical mass of native software.
It's exactly why Steve Jobs disallowed Flash and other compatibility layers from iOS.

Assuming that was using Wine underneath, it's interesting that you had as much success as you did. Unfortunately, aside from Windows software it has specifically been worked on to make it run (e.g., old versions of Office), only the most trivial Win32 programs tend to immediately work with Wine.

What with Windows 10's end of life looming in the near future Linux Mint might good a good way to extend the life of those older computers that are still more than powerful enough to do the tasks required.

And AI takes all the wizardry out of using any version of Linix. You are only even one question away from knowing exactly how to use every single feature of Linux from the command line window.

ncmark wrote on 2025-10-10, 11:41:

Not really related, but maybe related. This whole thing is bigger than windows11 requiring an account. How much of the entire internet is microsoft controlling? I think I of places are just defaulting to them for services like email. Do places even have their own email servers at all, or is it all done via accounts with microsoft? A very "dangerous" trend

Isn't Google greater evil in that regard?

The Serpent Rider wrote on Yesterday, 16:32:

There's /dev/SDA with numbers in Linux. It's not that complicated.

That's more equivalent to \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE0 etc. on Windows. Mount points end up under something like /media/user/label/.

Mount points / drive letters are such a minor thing that I don't even see how it's an issue. What is an issue is that there's some games and software that won't work, or work with quirks that they don't have on windows. For example I was happy to see the Serious Sam modding tools (Serious Editor, Serious Modeler) do launch trough Wine and at first glance appeared to work fine, but then I tried to actually edit a map and noticed that I can't drag-and-drop items from the entities menu, making this unusable and having to launch a windows virtual machine 😒

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-10-06, 05:59:

lti wrote on 2025-10-05, 22:09:

Have you had any problems with it recognizing some removable storage? It looked to me like the "advanced hardware support" version specifically wouldn't mount old FAT16-formatted drives and put NTFS errors in dmesg in the process, even though no NTFS partitions existed on the connected drives.

I don't really use this machine for retro stuff, so I haven't tested that.

My DOS retro rigs are currently in storage, but when time permits, I might try accessing one of my FAT16 CF cards under MX Linux to see how that works.

I wasn't even trying to do any retro stuff. I didn't realize that one of my flash drives was FAT16 instead of FAT32.

UCyborg wrote on 2025-10-10, 00:35:

Also, is there a single Linux that isn't horrible in virtual machines in UI responsiveness department? Because the only thing worse than running Linux on bare metal is running Linux in a virtual machine.

For me, every OS is less responsive in a VM, and it depends on what VM software you use. On a Windows host, VirtualBox was more responsive than Hyper-V, but VirtualBox is also such a buggy mess that it's unusable (not to mention that it's from Oracle - at least it's free because I don't want to support whatever drug habit their CEO has).

Living wrote on 2025-10-10, 02:08:

4) discover the wifi is only 2.4Ghz. Proceed to connect Tplink t2u nano > had to copy and paste some nonsense of chatgpt on the terminal that NOBODY will remember and in a million years would guessed, only to discover that if you install a driver in Debian it has to rebuild THE ENTIRE KERNEL and thats what is doing now (1 hour in). Does that mean with EACH thing that needs a driver will have to do this?

I've never heard of rebuilding the kernel to install a driver, but lacking driver support is a problem with Linux.

Living wrote on 2025-10-10, 02:08:

how...HOW is this the so called year of Linux with all this?

There will never be a "year of the Linux desktop." As I said earlier, Linux is not for everyone, and it seems like there are a lot of people who want to keep it that way while simultaneously telling everyone's grandma to switch.

Personally, I found Lubuntu to be a better experience than Mint, but there's still some manual configuration. You have to configure Picom because the out-of-the-box defaults result in screen tearing. Then switching the renderer to OGX to fix the tearing enables some ridiculous transparency effects that make menus unreadable, and you have to dig through the Picom configuration to set their opacity to 1.00 (while GUI elements that are opaque by default have their opacity set to 0.00). Then the live media has semi-functional Samba, but it doesn't get installed. You have to manually install Samba and manually edit a config file to create a shared folder.

The fact that some (most?) Windows programs/games work on Linux at all is amazing. And then people still complain when something doesn't work like it means Linux is bad.

zirkoni wrote on Today, 17:07:

The fact that some (most?) Windows programs/games work on Linux at all is amazing. And then people still complain when something doesn't work like it means Linux is bad.

WINE also works on Mac OS X! ^^

Oh, and there's also BSD and Solaris, still.. ;)

An OS that used to be very promising was QNX, by the way.
It was *nix style but cleaner and quicker than Linux.
- Too bad it ended up as a niche system. It was notable for being used as a partner to AmigaOS in 2000 (info).
And in automation, car infotainment systems etc.

Edit:

jakethompson1 wrote on Yesterday, 19:29:

The problem is that software targets the compatibility layer and the OS never gains a critical mass of native software.
It's exactly why Steve Jobs disallowed Flash and other compatibility layers from iOS.

Assuming that was using Wine underneath, it's interesting that you had as much success as you did. Unfortunately, aside from Windows software it has specifically been worked on to make it run (e.g., old versions of Office), only the most trivial Win32 programs tend to immediately work with Wine.

Yet same time, he had planned to have Rhapsody support Win32 applications on Rhapsody.
And Rhapsody applications (Openstep applications) on Windows NT..
See RedBox..

https://lowendmac.com/1997/red-box-blue-box-yellow-box/

Edit: iOS and Android have done so much harm to the IT landscacpe, I think.
PalmOS and Symbian were mobile OSes, too, but never sacrificed good, existing concepts.
I really miss those old OSes sometimes, even Blackberry OS.
Heck, even the Agenda PDA using a custom Linux was more sophisticated than what we have for ~20 years now. 😢

Edit: Haiku OS would be sweet, if it wasn't 30 years behind current development.
It lacks so much software besides the mainstream stuff and it still has hardware support more limited than Windows 98..

Edit: I'm sorry, I got carried away a bit.

God Of Gaming wrote on Today, 08:22:

Mount points / drive letters are such a minor thing that I don't even see how it's an issue.

It's an issue to those new to Linux, because it's a change to something so basic, and the Linux way isn't intuitive to someone new to it. As I said, probably the Linux way is better, but why not also include Windows' way as a secondary method, to help ease people migrating from Windows use?

The Serpent Rider wrote on Yesterday, 16:32:

There's /dev/SDA with numbers in Linux. It's not that complicated.

Maybe, but it's more complicated than in Windows. If I install (or boot with a live CD) Linux to my PC, then to access, say, my E: drive, I then have to somehow find out what /dev/SDA does, and what number my E: hard drive is. Granted, it's probably not too difficult to do so, but why not just allow Linux to also refer to /dev/SDA3 (or whatever it is) as E: ? It wouldn't be difficult to implement in Linux, surely? And it would make the first exposure to Linux a little less confusing.

UCyborg wrote on Yesterday, 21:49:

That's more equivalent to \\.\PHYSICALDRIVE0 etc. on Windows. Mount points end up under something like /media/user/label/.

See? Straight away, a little difficulty or confusion over addressing a drive in Linux. No doubt even a very mildly experienced Linux user would understand how to do it, and consider it to be basic knowledge, but to a Windows user, where E:\ equals E:\, and Linux is a new and strange experience where even creating a desktop shortcut involves something new and contradictory to how you've done it for years on Windows, then each difference between the two OSes can feel like another bag of straws on the camel's back. Even just choosing which Linux distro to use can seem confusing and maybe even intimidating to someone coming to Linux from Windows. Yes, Linux's huge variety of separate distros is no doubt a superb advantage of Linux, allowing those who know what is what to choose a distro that is aimed towards that person's intended use, and isn't hindered/slowed down/clogged up/etc with stuff that will never be needed, but when you're coming from Windows, then you're used solely to a one-size-fits-all mentality, so the Linux thing can be confusing even before you have Linux installed on your desktop or laptop.

zirkoni wrote on Today, 17:07:

The fact that some (most?) Windows programs/games work on Linux at all is amazing. And then people still complain when something doesn't work like it means Linux is bad.

I'm not saying that Linux is bad at all. Just that it can be difficult for Windows only users to adapt to another OS, especially those people without technical know-how, or the wish to learn much about under-the-bonnet processes and options. Humans get set in their ways, and don't like to put much effort into doing something different just to get basically the same result (albeit in this case, on a new OS). Especially those of us who are old enough that we've lost our interest in the how-it-works of things, and just want an easy time.

ElectroSoldier wrote on Yesterday, 21:48:

What with Windows 10's end of life looming in the near future Linux Mint might good a good way to extend the life of those older computers that are still more than powerful enough to do the tasks required.

Definitely. I'm thinking of doing so on my Windows 10 laptop, if only by dual booting with Linux (probably Mint), so I will use Linux just for web-browsing and e-mail etc, and Windows 10 (kept offline) for running games. Luckily I don't play games online.

Kerr Avon wrote on Today, 18:38:

Maybe, but it's more complicated than in Windows. If I install (or boot with a live CD) Linux to my PC, then to access, say, my E: drive, I then have to somehow find out what /dev/SDA does, and what number my E: hard drive is.

This may depend on the distro, desktop environment or the file manager of your choosing, but I found that KDE generally shows you the volume label in addition to /dev/sda1 or whatever.

As an example, my main Windows 11 partition is shown as as "WIN11" because that's the volume label I used.