There's no big rush

Unsupported = no patches

Though if history is a guide, the really critical shit will be, many years later.

There's already a "hack" that will prolong extended security updates until 2028. So until that date comes, nothing will change.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2025-10-12, 11:41:

There's already a "hack" that will prolong extended security updates until 2028. So until that date comes, nothing will change.

is that related to 'enrol' to get 1 more year? you need MS iD for that, or maybe it some variation on using onedrive or MS reward points (if you have them). Whatever i've seen always involves minimally an ID if not more. not a bad thing, but i've seen nothing hackish as yet (but then i haven't looked much 😀 )

No, that's the official extended support for consumers, which is free in Europe anyway (hint: anyone can become a european). The hack is related to the business updates channel.

Hoping wrote on 2025-10-10, 11:43:

I used Linux Mint on all my laptops and HTPC for years, but I got tired of spending hours dealing with drivers and configurations, Samba for example, and glitches, when in Windows you can share anything on the network with just a few clicks,

On Linux, you have sshd running, that is already capable of sharing files, and so required zero config. I was about to say that Samba is only really for Windows, but then I remembered, at work, I really just end up using ssh anyway, even on Windows.

Hoping wrote on 2025-10-10, 11:43:

and drivers are installed and managed much more easily and quickly, and are more readily available.

I don't think I have downloaded a driver for Linux in 20 years. Every driver comes with the kernel out of the box.

Hoping wrote on 2025-10-10, 11:43:

I have various Laptops with AMD APUS from the pre Ryzen era, and the support on Linux always gave me a lot of problems, back then I had the impression that Linux favored Intel/nVidia, I don't know how it's now, but I don't care because if I install Windows 10 or 7 on those laptops, every thing just works.

Also strange you say that Linux favors Intel/Nvidia, because I have used solely AMD on Linux at home for over 20 years. Even in the data centers, many of them have now moved to AMD on Linux. No problems here.

Hoping wrote on 2025-10-10, 11:43:

My time is important to me, and installing and configuring Linux takes me longer than disabling telemetry and uninstalling bloatware from Windows 10/11, I always use Pro editions, so I think that all the telemetry and unwanted apps can be disabled/uninstalled, but maybe I'm wrong.

I've spent zero time installing Linux the past 5 years. Arguably, the last time was 5 years ago at home when we got in another machine, although technically, it also came out of the box with Linux already running just fine on a different distro. Configuring? I mean it been good to go for at least 5 years. I mean, I've not really ever had to touch anything to get something to work in a very long time.

I've probably spent far more time with my work computer updating and rebooting Windows every month this year from the mandatory update pushes than my entire lifetime of installing and configuring Linux. And other things happening on the Win PC I pretty much have decided to just always shutdown and boot fresh everyday just to make sure the hidden background updates get flushed through. These are "Pro/Enterprise" versions. So it's a bit of a hassle for my time because Windows is not under my control, and that is true at home for people that bother to keep using it.

the3dfxdude wrote on 2025-10-12, 20:08:

I've probably spent far more time with my work computer updating and rebooting Windows every month this year from the mandatory update pushes than my entire lifetime of installing and configuring Linux. And other things happening on the Win PC I pretty much have decided to just always shutdown and boot fresh everyday just to make sure the hidden background updates get flushed through. These are "Pro/Enterprise" versions. So it's a bit of a hassle for my time because Windows is not under my control, and that is true at home for people that bother to keep using it.

For Pro/Enterprise version you can easily disable automatic updates, which will eliminate these mandatory reboots. If your work computer forces you to update, this is due to the company's IT policy. It's the same for me. My personal installations of Windows do not auto-update, because I don't like it.

the3dfxdude wrote on 2025-10-12, 20:08:

Hoping wrote on 2025-10-10, 11:43:

and drivers are installed and managed much more easily and quickly, and are more readily available.

I don't think I have downloaded a driver for Linux in 20 years. Every driver comes with the kernel out of the box.

How about webcams? I used to buy them in bulk, because only a few had worked on Linux each time.
It was related to the picture compression codec, too, I think.
Scanners were equaly troublesome to me, but maybe that just was bad luck. Did only try a few in comparison to webcams.
Because unused webcams are small, so they can be stored in a cardboard box. Flat bed scanners on other hand.. 😅

Jo22 wrote on Yesterday, 12:23:

How about webcams? I used to buy them in bulk, because only a few had worked on Linux each time. It was related to the picture c […]
Show full quote

the3dfxdude wrote on 2025-10-12, 20:08:

Hoping wrote on 2025-10-10, 11:43:

and drivers are installed and managed much more easily and quickly, and are more readily available.

I don't think I have downloaded a driver for Linux in 20 years. Every driver comes with the kernel out of the box.

How about webcams? I used to buy them in bulk, because only a few had worked on Linux each time.
It was related to the picture compression codec, too, I think.
Scanners were equaly troublesome to me, but maybe that just was bad luck. Did only try a few in comparison to webcams.
Because unused webcams are small, so they can be stored in a cardboard box. Flat bed scanners on other hand.. 😅

I have had much better luck than you with webcams. My Logitech C920 and Razr Kiyo ones work out of box. My 25-year-old Intel CS430 also still works. For the last few years, with UVC compliant devices having been the norm, this is mostly a non issue under both Linux and Windows (some devices may expose added functionality that requires extra software, but at least baseline functionality works with generic UVC drivers).

On the scanner front, I mostly use Canon ones and they all work too (the ones I've used, probably not all the ones ever made). I have only ever used those under Linux for very basic scanning tasks, though, so I cannot vouch for full functionality.

darry wrote on Yesterday, 13:43:

I have had much better luck than you with webcams. My Logitech C920 and Razr Kiyo ones work out of box. My 25-year-old Intel CS430 also still works. For the last few years, with UVC compliant devices having been the norm, this is mostly a non issue under both Linux and Windows (some devices may expose added functionality that requires extra software, but at least baseline functionality works with generic UVC drivers).

True, I head about the new UVC models.. They're from ~2010s onwards, I think.
Mac OS X 10.4.9 added support for them by late 2000s, I vaguely remember reading once.
Haven't really "upgraded" to them yet, though, for several reasons.
Foremost, they're ugly. I miss the traditional, cyberspace-esque "eye ball" design of the Connectix QuickCam and its successors. 😃

Then they're very flimsey and have poor build quality. They also lacking the mounting point for a tripod, often. Or an eye lid eye patch (though "Pro" models seem to have that).
The aspect ratio is wrong, too, I suppose? 16:9 rather than 4:3? Anyway, not sure. 😅
Edit: I also liked the focus ring ofclassic webcams. In some models, the lens could be removed by turning it.
That was useful for astrophotograpy hobby, because an telescope adapter could be mounted that way.

Needless to say that I don’t like HD resolution. I don’t want my face to show up on other side in HD.
I want a humble "webcam", not a body scanner or face digitizer. 😂🥲
Hence, VGA resolution in 640x480 used to be a sweet spot to me.

Also, HD causes trouble with Linux projects that take a snapshot and then convert it further or use it for a webcam page on a home page.
An 176x144 pix capture (QCIF) or 352x288 pix capture (CIF) easily be used without requiring high bandwidth.

It also is useful for quick conversion to Slow Scan TV images (they're between 120x120 to 320x240 pixels, often).
As can bee seen on my YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaHpbsTx3P0
If the native resolution is low, there's not much conversion needed and the automated Python script isn't being delayed.

That's ideal for a Raspberry Pi 1 or Pi Zero (w/ Raspbian) working as an SSTV camera.
That's why I'm using an Trust SpaceCam here, for example.
It can do 640x480, but normally works in lower resolution modes just fine.

darry wrote on Yesterday, 13:43:

On the scanner front, I mostly use Canon ones and they all work too (the ones I've used, probably not all the ones ever made). I have only ever used those under Linux for very basic scanning tasks, though, so I cannot vouch for full functionality.

I see. I've been mostly using older models because they weren't so flimsy.
Something like the late 90s/early 2000s models with SCSI or LPT/USB port.
Say, HP ScanJet 3400c (the acrylic version in iMac G3 style).
They had 300 dpi at least, often 600 dpi. That was okay to scan magazines and documents.

[https://youtu.be/4PyxWPuIUyk

im in the same boat, only my main pc is "supported"

Jo22 wrote on Yesterday, 12:23:

How about webcams? I used to buy them in bulk, because only a few had worked on Linux each time. It was related to the picture c […]
Show full quote

the3dfxdude wrote on 2025-10-12, 20:08:

Hoping wrote on 2025-10-10, 11:43:

and drivers are installed and managed much more easily and quickly, and are more readily available.

I don't think I have downloaded a driver for Linux in 20 years. Every driver comes with the kernel out of the box.

How about webcams? I used to buy them in bulk, because only a few had worked on Linux each time.
It was related to the picture compression codec, too, I think.
Scanners were equaly troublesome to me, but maybe that just was bad luck. Did only try a few in comparison to webcams.
Because unused webcams are small, so they can be stored in a cardboard box. Flat bed scanners on other hand.. 😅

I've never had to download any driver for webcam or scanners. I've never had an issue with codecs. All came out of the box and worked. webcams are usually pretty standardized. Scanners are usually pretty standardized too. Yes, I know some printer/scanner companies have been sketchy in the past, but I only had to search the list on open printing and that tells you which ones work, especially the ones that are shipped in the distros, and the working list is quite long.

the3dfxdude wrote on Yesterday, 15:31:

webcams are usually pretty standardized.

New UVC type webcams probably are. I already admitted that. 🙂

In the past, merely about 3 out of 10 webcams I tried did work on Linux, though.
Some were detected but couldn't be opened by applications, some showed a green screen or artifacts.
That's why (in the past) I had bought dozen of cheap webcams at fleamarkets or on eBay, hoping that a few would work.
Some did work, some didn't (on Raspbian, for example).

But again, the UVC type webcams do probably work.
Because they aren’t "different" webcams anymore from an electronics point of view.
The CCD, err, CMOS chip might still different each time but the protocol is same.

It's like talking about USB mouse or keyboard support, I guess.
We could argue that Linux is so great, so awesome and compatible and everything because it works with any USB keyboard/mouse.

It looks much better in favor of Linux that saying it supports one type of keyboard/mouse protocol (the standard HID type).
Or than admitting that it doesn't support any of the special buttons and programmable features that the native Windows drivers would support.

Edit:

Yes, I know some printer/scanner companies have been sketchy in the past, but I only had to search the list on open printing and that tells you which ones work, especially the ones that are shipped in the distros, and the working list is quite

Yeah, Linux is like MS-DOS here. Just pick an HP Laserjet driver and 90% of the printers do work! 😁

With basic functionality, I mean. No printer ink status, no control over print quality (light, normal, dark) etc.

Jo22 wrote on Yesterday, 14:22:

True, I head about the new UVC models.. They're from ~2010s onwards, I think. Mac OS X 10.4.9 added support for them by late 200 […]
Show full quote

darry wrote on Yesterday, 13:43:

I have had much better luck than you with webcams. My Logitech C920 and Razr Kiyo ones work out of box. My 25-year-old Intel CS430 also still works. For the last few years, with UVC compliant devices having been the norm, this is mostly a non issue under both Linux and Windows (some devices may expose added functionality that requires extra software, but at least baseline functionality works with generic UVC drivers).

True, I head about the new UVC models.. They're from ~2010s onwards, I think.
Mac OS X 10.4.9 added support for them by late 2000s, I vaguely remember reading once.
Haven't really "upgraded" to them yet, though, for several reasons.
Foremost, they're ugly. I miss the traditional, cyberspace-esque "eye ball" design of the Connectix QuickCam and its successors. 😃

Then they're very flimsey and have poor build quality. They also lacking the mounting point for a tripod, often. Or an eye lid eye patch (though "Pro" models seem to have that).
The aspect ratio is wrong, too, I suppose? 16:9 rather than 4:3? Anyway, not sure. 😅
Edit: I also liked the focus ring ofclassic webcams. In some models, the lens could be removed by turning it.
That was useful for astrophotograpy hobby, because an telescope adapter could be mounted that way.

Needless to say that I don’t like HD resolution. I don’t want my face to show up on other side in HD.
I want a humble "webcam", not a body scanner or face digitizer. 😂🥲
Hence, VGA resolution in 640x480 used to be a sweet spot to me.

Also, HD causes trouble with Linux projects that take a snapshot and then convert it further or use it for a webcam page on a home page.
An 176x144 pix capture (QCIF) or 352x288 pix capture (CIF) easily be used without requiring high bandwidth.

It also is useful for quick conversion to Slow Scan TV images (they're between 120x120 to 320x240 pixels, often).
As can bee seen on my YT channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaHpbsTx3P0
If the native resolution is low, there's not much conversion needed and the automated Python script isn't being delayed.

That's ideal for a Raspberry Pi 1 or Pi Zero (w/ Raspbian) working as an SSTV camera.
That's why I'm using an Trust SpaceCam here, for example.
It can do 640x480, but normally works in lower resolution modes just fine.

darry wrote on Yesterday, 13:43:

On the scanner front, I mostly use Canon ones and they all work too (the ones I've used, probably not all the ones ever made). I have only ever used those under Linux for very basic scanning tasks, though, so I cannot vouch for full functionality.

I see. I've been mostly using older models because they weren't so flimsy.
Something like the late 90s/early 2000s models with SCSI or LPT/USB port.
Say, HP ScanJet 3400c (the acrylic version in iMac G3 style).
They had 300 dpi at least, often 600 dpi. That was okay to scan magazines and documents.

I understand your preference in webcams, though I mostly do not share them, primarily because my use cases are different.

That being said, many of the issues you mention can be worked around or ar not present in all modern-ish webcams. For example :

- the Logitech C920 has a 4x3 sensor. I suspect its newer brethren are similar.
- lower resolutions can be forced on higher resolution webcams under Linux, so no need to convert/downsize and waste bandwidth and CPU cycles (or scare the party you are video conferencing with 😉 )
- the C920 is quite sturdy, IMHO
- the C920 has auto-focus and software controllable fly-by-wire manual focus (no focus ring), which may or not be suitable for your use case(s)

These days, for astrophotography, a cheap second hand DSLR or mirrorless camera with an adapter is probably a better choice, unless one is really pining for ultra low dynamic range VGA resolution shots of a galaxy far, far away. 😉

As, for scanners, I have had a few thrift store Canon LIDE ones over the years (I upgrade and give away to friends and family) and even recently made ones (at time of purchase) have worked pretty much out of the box, AFAICR. For more important/critical stuff, I use them under Windows (more mature drivers and calibration).

My current day-to-day scanner setup is a Canon MF3010 printer-scanner combo. While I did install the proprietary Canon Linux driver for this, it works fine for both printing and scanning, including front panel controls. I run it in an always-on VM, with PCI passthrough of the USB controller (USB passthrough was not reliable) on my Debian NAS host. Using a SANE to TWAIN bridge, scanning from Windows client machines is not an issue. Incidentally, printing also works from Windows 98 SE and Windows 10, for example.

the fact that i had to use the terminal following some instructions from Brother to install the 1212w in Mint does not speak very well of the state of the drivers

plus was the bare drivers, no controls, no status, nothing. I was left scratching my head like how a non tech savvy person was supposed to install this.

https://support.brother.com/g/b/faqend.aspx?c … faq00100556_000

1 day to go!

https://endoflife.date/windows

OK, there's extended support for security updates for Win10 22H2 until October 2028, but other than that, Windows 10 is going the way of the deprecated and unsupported.

And the last Win11 (23H2) that can still boot on pre-SSE4.2 CPUs is going next month. I'm feeling old.

Well it's already 14th in my country!

Well, we all know that a lot of hardware has proprietary drivers that are not included in Linux distributions and have to be installed separately, if they are available. The first one I remember is the case of Broadcom Wi-Fi cards, which were very common in HP laptops, and the same goes for many other hardware components.
I think I already mentioned that Linux had, I don't know now, a big problem with less common hardware; I'm talking about the time when I used it, which was between 2012 and 2019. If it was simple, common office-type or low-end hardware, there weren't usually many problems, but if it was other things, as I mentioned in one case, an Alienware M17xR3, many things didn't work.
That laptop had AMD Enduro, which already didn't work perfectly on Windows, but on Linux, switching between dedicated and integrated graphics didn't work at all and the Linux driver for the HD 6990M never worked well. Apart from what I mentioned about the backlit keyboard.
Another one, try to fight with the touch screens on older hardware, I also had some fun with them on Linux for nothing.
Linux is a disaster when it comes to order, with hundreds of different distributions and very little standardisation except in the command line. I don't know, there was a time when I wanted to believe it was better than Windows overall, and I tried hard to think that way, but then something always went wrong, and I had to spend hours on the command line and reading things. In the end, I value my time, and with Linux, if you don't study it in depth, you're doomed to waste a lot of time, and sometimes, to discover that what you want to do simply won't work, whereas with Windows you could do it with a few clicks. And to study it in depth, yo have to spend a lot of time.
I always liked alternative operating systems, such as Plan 9, QNX, Beos, Minix, and nowadays Haiku. I even made a website when I finished my studies on operating systems.
Look, it's clear that the manufacturers of the hardware we use at home make it with Windows in mind. It's all well and good that Linux is prevalent on servers and such, but we don't have servers at home.
For example, the fact that Linux needs much less RAM to run well is of no use to me, as I currently find RAM very cheap.
So I prefer Windows 10/11/7 and even XP, where all the hardware works as it should.

Windows 10 in its Pro and higher versions will probably be supported for a couple more years, at least, due to pressure from large companies, or maybe more, like it happened with Windows 7, and I don't see a big difference between Windows 10 and 11. But my favorite is still Windows 7.

Jo22 wrote on Yesterday, 16:20:

Yeah, Linux is like MS-DOS here. Just pick an HP Laserjet driver and 90% of the printers do work! 😁

With basic functionality, I mean. No printer ink status, no control over print quality (light, normal, dark) etc.

The HP I used to use had ink status and print quality settings in Linux. It's likely pretty decent still, but I don't use HP today. I have no clue why you are saying this. HP support has been pretty good for many years.

Living wrote on Yesterday, 18:11:

the fact that i had to use the terminal following some instructions from Brother to install the 1212w in Mint does not speak very well of the state of the drivers

plus was the bare drivers, no controls, no status, nothing. I was left scratching my head like how a non tech savvy person was supposed to install this.

https://support.brother.com/g/b/faqend.aspx?c … faq00100556_000

On no, a brother printer. I wouldn't buy a brother even for Windows, based on experience far before I started using Linux.

Hoping wrote on Yesterday, 20:41:

That laptop had AMD Enduro, which already didn't work perfectly on Windows, but on Linux, switching between dedicated and integrated graphics didn't work at all and the Linux driver for the HD 6990M never worked well. Apart from what I mentioned about the backlit keyboard.

(???)I've never heard of this Enduro thing. And I've never had a problem with backlit keyboards. Sorry. That's probably just a really strange custom beast. I don't think anyone is going to be able to help outside the manufacturer if it was that bad that even Windows didn't work perfectly. That's not a linux issue. It sounds like the Windows drivers sucked too.

the3dfxdude wrote on Yesterday, 21:12:

(???)I've never heard of this Enduro thing. And I've never had a problem with backlit keyboards. Sorry. That's probably just a really strange custom beast. I don't think anyone is going to be able to help outside the manufacturer if it was that bad that even Windows didn't work perfectly. That's not a linux issue. It sounds like the Windows drivers sucked too.

The Alienware M17x R3 was not and is not strange today. With Windows 10, I imagine that even without any improvements, it is still a very capable laptop. It came with 8 gigabytes of RAM, a SATA SSD, and a second hard drive. I think the i7 2670M must also be quite capable even today, and its screen was already Full HD.
AMD Enduro was a method of switching between the integrated graphics of the CPU and a more powerful dedicated graphics card. They did not necessarily have to be both from AMD. In this case, it was an i7 2670M with integrated HD Graphics 2600 and a Radeon HD 6990M. In Windows 7, everything worked fine. You could switch between the two graphics cards with a key, if I remember correctly. In Windows 10, there were some problems.
But on Linux it never worked as it should.
In this case, the Nvidia Optimus system worked much better, but I never tried Nvidia Optimus on Linux.
RGB backlit keyboards were not as common in laptops in 2011 as they are today, I believe.