renejr902 wrote on 2025-10-13, 10:28:

something cool

Super offroad have a choice of ega 64 colors and it works great when i switch to 64 colors on the monitor in manual mode. the automatic mode didn't detect the 64 colors mode

Hi! Thanks for the pictures! 🙂👍
The 64 color mode was known to be troublesome, I think.
It basically has to do with it being linked to the IBM 5154 "hi-res" monitor.
You know, the real EGA monitor that can do EGA's native 640x350 pixel resolution.
Unfortunatwlly, many home users have/had an ordinary CGA monitor or RGB TV set connected to EGA card however.
Which are assumed to not have RrGgBb capabilities like a real EGA monitor, but ordinary RGBI (like CGA uses it).
So both the EGA card and the EGA monitor must support/use 64c mode.
Interestingly, the EGA monitor can display 64c at once but the EGA card has to switch between four 16c palettes to display them all.
That's the short story, in a nutshell, basically. I'm just a layman here.

Here are some interesting videos on YouTube, they also cover Super Off Road game.

This monitor is the same as the IBM 5154 EGA monitor! (Samsung CD-1452M)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EezG5OzSQo

Ivan "Ironman" Stewart's Super Off Road - Compare IBM PC DOS version - CGA, EGA, EGA 64 & VGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDnuzJ2_7SA

EGA 64 color palette in Ironman Super Off Road (with PVM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp_WmdciZ3Y

PS: That Snoopy game of '89 has 64c mode, too. :)
https://www.mobygames.com/game/11595/snoopy-t … -computer-game/

Jo22 wrote on 2025-10-13, 12:11:

The 64 color mode was known to be troublesome, I think. It basically has to do with it being linked to the IBM 5154 "hi-res" mon […]
Show full quote

The 64 color mode was known to be troublesome, I think.
It basically has to do with it being linked to the IBM 5154 "hi-res" monitor.
You know, the real EGA monitor that can do EGA's native 640x350 pixel resolution.
Unfortunatwlly, many home users have/had an ordinary CGA monitor or RGB TV set connected to EGA card however.
Which are assumed to not have RrGgBb capabilities like a real EGA monitor, but ordinary RGBI (like CGA uses it).
So both the EGA card and the EGA monitor must support/use 64c mode.
Interestingly, the EGA monitor can display 64c at once but the EGA card has to switch between four 16c palettes to display them all.
That's the short story, in a nutshell, basically. I'm just a layman here.

The 16/64 color issue is not primarily about people connecting a CGA monitor (or TV with RGB input to an EGA card), but IBMs idea that the EGA monitor should work out-of-the-box with CGA cards. You are supposed to use a different DIP switch settings on the EGA card if you connect a CGA monitor than if you connect an EGA monitor, so the EGA BIOS would be able to react to different monitor types. The IBM 5154 connected to a CGA card is supposed to work "just like the 5153". This monitor is meant as an extended 5153. As the 5153 only supports 16 colors, the 5154 in "CGA mode" only supports 16 colors. Only if the 5154 operates in "EGA mode", it supports 64 colors. At the same time, "CGA mode" is associated with a horizontal frequency of 15.6kHz and 200 active scanlines, while "EGA mode" is associated with a horizontal frequency of 21.8kHz and 350 scanlines. For that reason, all 200-line modes, even the 16-color EGA graphics modes, operate the 5154 monitor in "CGA mode", in which only the classic 16 CGA colors are supported.

There are no four 16c palettes on the EGA card, though. While the EGA video generation logic always generates a image consisting of 16 colors (numbered 0..15), any arbitrary assignment of EGA colors to these 16 color numbers is possible. This is different to the CGA card that had multiple fixed sets of colors that could be applied to map the color number 1..3 in graphics mode to CGA color numbers.

very interesting info, thanks guys

renejr902 wrote on 2025-10-14, 04:43:

very interesting info, thanks guys

Hi! i will make it short for now 🤣. I bought a Ati ega wonder 800 with switch. My 2 cga ibm monitor wotks perfectly in ega great. ega normal resolution 320 x 200 16 colors is perfect. high resolution ega work in 640x 350.in a strange double scanline and flicker. but still work.

But the miracle is with the NEC MULTiSYNC PLUS. with the ati wonder ega and correct switch setting in db9, the monitor works like a real ega only monitor. What it seems to do is force all cga, ega normal resolution 320x200 and high resolution mode 640x350 to works always in 21khz, 21khz is the ega khz high resolution. its force the monitor to stay at 21khz and never go down to 15khz when in cga or ega normal reaolution 320x200, always stay in 21khz. ( 21khz = ega high resolution khz mode 640x350 ) I can keep my nec monitor now, its now a real ega monitor. the ibm cga monitor in 320x200 16 colors looks impressive wonderful colors and definition.
the Nec multisync monitor in 640x350 16 colors looks impressive, the high resolution in blockout is so great

Do you think that all modes cga+ega always in 21khz change the image screen quality ? focus ? defition ? colors ? anything different vs cga + ega normal.resolution mode 320 x200 at 15khz ?

What does it changes visually and not, that it runs ega and cga all modes in 21khz instead of 15khz ?

Thanks for answer.

Some picture of kq6 in ega 16 colors normal resolution abd blockout in high vs low resolution with my NEC multisync pkus and my 2 ibm cga monitor.

Note: if you have a cga monitor or a nec multisync monitor you really need a ati ega wonder 800 or i suppose a ati vga wo der with both db9 abd db15, its necessary for great ega mode

Jo22 wrote on 2025-10-13, 12:11:

Hi! Thanks for the pictures! 🙂👍 The 64 color mode was known to be troublesome, I think. It basically has to do with it being lin […]
Show full quote

renejr902 wrote on 2025-10-13, 10:28:

something cool

Super offroad have a choice of ega 64 colors and it works great when i switch to 64 colors on the monitor in manual mode. the automatic mode didn't detect the 64 colors mode

Hi! Thanks for the pictures! 🙂👍
The 64 color mode was known to be troublesome, I think.
It basically has to do with it being linked to the IBM 5154 "hi-res" monitor.
You know, the real EGA monitor that can do EGA's native 640x350 pixel resolution.
Unfortunatwlly, many home users have/had an ordinary CGA monitor or RGB TV set connected to EGA card however.
Which are assumed to not have RrGgBb capabilities like a real EGA monitor, but ordinary RGBI (like CGA uses it).
So both the EGA card and the EGA monitor must support/use 64c mode.
Interestingly, the EGA monitor can display 64c at once but the EGA card has to switch between four 16c palettes to display them all.
That's the short story, in a nutshell, basically. I'm just a layman here.

Here are some interesting videos on YouTube, they also cover Super Off Road game.

This monitor is the same as the IBM 5154 EGA monitor! (Samsung CD-1452M)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EezG5OzSQo

Ivan "Ironman" Stewart's Super Off Road - Compare IBM PC DOS version - CGA, EGA, EGA 64 & VGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDnuzJ2_7SA

EGA 64 color palette in Ironman Super Off Road (with PVM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp_WmdciZ3Y

PS: That Snoopy game of '89 has 64c mode, too. 😀
https://www.mobygames.com/game/11595/snoopy-t … -computer-game/

see my last post with my ati ega wonder. 😉

renejr902 wrote on 2025-10-06, 07:54:

dionb wrote on 2025-10-06, 06:37:

Impressive monitor - but you're right: 21.8kHz minimum. So no hardware CGA input. If using TTL input (as you are), you need an E […]
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renejr902 wrote on 2025-10-06, 04:15:

[...] […]
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[...]

About the nec JC-1501VMoctober 1987
i posted the picture. i have the manual.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1593686/Nec … vma.html#manual

Let me know what you think.. if the monitor will do ega correctly and still do cga. the monitor has a 64 colors switch, i was not sure, so i put the switch in 16 colors position.

Impressive monitor - but you're right: 21.8kHz minimum. So no hardware CGA input. If using TTL input (as you are), you need an EGA card (or in this case: VGA card with EGA output) with switches set to hi-res.

The standard EGA switch settings for hi-res are Off-On-On-Off.

That will make defauit output 21.8kHz - but what happens when you run low-res software depends on the card. If it outputs at 21.8kHz CGA modes will work fine, if it outputs low-res at 15.7kHz it won't on this monitor. It might be worth checking all three cards for behaviour in this case.

The switches on the monitor won't change this. Be sure to have the TTL/Analog switch set to TTL and apart from that set Manual to off. Then the other ones don't matter.

I will all vga in the next few hours. i will benchmark a little. I love oak oti067, i have it in other system and even a oti077 […]
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I will all vga in the next few hours. i will benchmark a little. I love oak oti067, i have it in other system and even a oti077 that i found powerful. So i will probably keep the oti067 vga+ega card in the system.
I'm curious this oti067 has a switch option for ega emulated or PURE ega. i will try it at pure ega. but im not sure about the difference. in the oti067 manual it said its better to put the switch correctly set with your nec monitor model, but my model is not shown, but i see Nec model ( generic one )

see the manual if you are curious:

http://www.funkygoods.com/schwarzschild/2014_ … vg_7000_man.pdf

or

Wanted BIOS for VG-7000 OTIVGA OTI067 card

see the picture of the 10 chips i bought on aliexpress, it supposed to work in all isa, pci video card fir upgrade ram. i will try them later. sorry the picture is hard to read for the chip number even with my own eye. but i got screeshot of the aliexpress page i bought them

That is 40p SOJ memory. Your cards have DIP16 and DIP18 sockets. It will not physically fit. Also, those chips are EDO and your cards only support Fast Page.

Or at least: that's what the inscription says, but this photograph shows a chip that has clearly been re-labeled (memory like this was NOT still being made in week 18 of 2002) so what it actually is and what its specs are are anyone's guess. If it does what the inscription claims, it would be fine for 1995-era cards that need upgrading from 1MB to 2MB or 4MB. But it won't fit these older cards physically or work electrically.

For upgrading the memory on the Oak card you need 2 DIP18 chips with 256k x 4 FP DRAM capable of at least 80ns. For the ET3000AX you'd need 8 DIP16 chips with 64k x 4 ("464") DRAM, capable of 70ns if you want to match what's in there now.

Thanks a lot for these info. within 24h i should post again and tell you the result of the different cards with ega. i will buy the good ram chip dip18 and dip16 too.

see my last post with my ati ega wonder. 😉

mkarcher wrote on 2025-10-13, 23:22:

Jo22 wrote on 2025-10-13, 12:11:

The 64 color mode was known to be troublesome, I think. It basically has to do with it being linked to the IBM 5154 "hi-res" mon […]
Show full quote

The 64 color mode was known to be troublesome, I think.
It basically has to do with it being linked to the IBM 5154 "hi-res" monitor.
You know, the real EGA monitor that can do EGA's native 640x350 pixel resolution.
Unfortunatwlly, many home users have/had an ordinary CGA monitor or RGB TV set connected to EGA card however.
Which are assumed to not have RrGgBb capabilities like a real EGA monitor, but ordinary RGBI (like CGA uses it).
So both the EGA card and the EGA monitor must support/use 64c mode.
Interestingly, the EGA monitor can display 64c at once but the EGA card has to switch between four 16c palettes to display them all.
That's the short story, in a nutshell, basically. I'm just a layman here.

The 16/64 color issue is not primarily about people connecting a CGA monitor (or TV with RGB input to an EGA card), but IBMs idea that the EGA monitor should work out-of-the-box with CGA cards. You are supposed to use a different DIP switch settings on the EGA card if you connect a CGA monitor than if you connect an EGA monitor, so the EGA BIOS would be able to react to different monitor types. The IBM 5154 connected to a CGA card is supposed to work "just like the 5153". This monitor is meant as an extended 5153. As the 5153 only supports 16 colors, the 5154 in "CGA mode" only supports 16 colors. Only if the 5154 operates in "EGA mode", it supports 64 colors. At the same time, "CGA mode" is associated with a horizontal frequency of 15.6kHz and 200 active scanlines, while "EGA mode" is associated with a horizontal frequency of 21.8kHz and 350 scanlines. For that reason, all 200-line modes, even the 16-color EGA graphics modes, operate the 5154 monitor in "CGA mode", in which only the classic 16 CGA colors are supported.

There are no four 16c palettes on the EGA card, though. While the EGA video generation logic always generates a image consisting of 16 colors (numbered 0..15), any arbitrary assignment of EGA colors to these 16 color numbers is possible. This is different to the CGA card that had multiple fixed sets of colors that could be applied to map the color number 1..3 in graphics mode to CGA color numbers.

see my last post with my ati ega wonder. 😉

( i need to know how to forward and answer 3 persons in the same post 🤣 , i'm sorry for this )

with my ati ega wonder i still have problem with TAITO games only. Bubble Bobble and Rastan. with both ibm cga monitor and nec multisync in ega. ( read my previous post abput ati ega wonder before this one )
i tried more than 30 games. only problem with TAITO games in ega. both start title in grey and scambled screen in the up of the screen in bubble bobble and rastan. Bubble froze there. Rastan start after title but strange double screen. bubble still has the same title in grey and scrambled in cga. i added a picture of monkey island 2 ega high resolution for fun) any ideas ? Thanks

i got a real authentic ega monitor. It looks wonderful
Ega Sun 350
( i tried it with 4 differents ega card )

5 others pictures of Sun EGA 350. ega low resolution pics of blockout and ega high resolution pics

renejr902 wrote on 2025-10-30, 17:42:

i got a real authentic ega monitor. It looks wonderful
Ega Sun 350
( i tried it with 4 differents ega card )

The scanlines show very well in the photos. That's how I always remember EGA as I told you yesterday. So now I'm doubting myself, if the scanlines are mainly for low-res modes, would that mean I used to own a CGA monitor over an EGA card? The machine I used to have was a Samsung S330 XT clone, but it actually had several customization options (mine was dual 5.25" floppy drives with no HDD, and with EGA graphics). I don't recall seeing a non-scanline image on the monitor, so now I'm wondering if my monitor was actually CGA connected to an EGA card?

wbahnassi wrote on 2025-10-30, 18:23:

renejr902 wrote on 2025-10-30, 17:42:

i got a real authentic ega monitor. It looks wonderful
Ega Sun 350
( i tried it with 4 differents ega card )

The scanlines show very well in the photos. That's how I always remember EGA as I told you yesterday. So now I'm doubting myself, if the scanlines are mainly for low-res modes, would that mean I used to own a CGA monitor over an EGA card? The machine I used to have was a Samsung S330 XT clone, but it actually had several customization options (mine was dual 5.25" floppy drives with no HDD, and with EGA graphics). I don't recall seeing a non-scanline image on the monitor, so now I'm wondering if my monitor was actually CGA connected to an EGA card?

yes i got your point. Maybe its possible. My ega monitor seems to be in high resolution mode in dos with no scanlines really visible. But with jumpers i can set it to use low resolution with scanline in dos.

Enjoy that 2 last pictures guys, they are more clear, low vs high resolution

Thanks wbahnassi for your visit yesterday 😀 He saw the monitor with his own eyes, but it was not correctly set. I had to play with the 5 settings at the back to get it wotking at 15khz and 21khz. horiz1 horiz2 vert1 vert2 and another one.

all pictures are from Oak oti067 in db9 in ega mode or tseng 3000nin db9 in ega mode.

But the ati ega 800 wonders with the enhanced switch on, the last switch, run anything, even the monitor badly set at the back, but i dont know which upscale resolution it uses and what khz, but it should be 21khz and runs the low resolution dos games this way with a upscaled unknow resolution. what a strange video card this ega 800 wonder in enhanced mode, but its still cool, very compatible

wbahnassi wrote on 2025-10-30, 18:23:

I don't recall seeing a non-scanline image on the monitor, so now I'm wondering if my monitor was actually CGA connected to an EGA card?

Many EGA games used 200-line modes for better performance (and compatibility with CGA monitors), so you will see scanlines in many EGA games, but text mode on an EGA monitor should be without noticeable scan lines. If you get scan lines in text mode, the EGA card is configured to use text modes at CGA frequency, most likely because you actually had a CGA monitor. CGA monitors were way cheaper than EGA monitors, so EGA + CGA monitor was a typical entry level configuration in around 1987/1988.