Pretty sure one of those computers is a Dell from the early 90s. Probably a dimension.

dukeofurl wrote on 2025-10-22, 01:08:

...coverage recently that he donated his original Apple II to a computer museum in Rochester NY...

That would be The Strong National Museum of Play. Highly recommend you visit. They've just undergone a large expansion in the last few years. One of the world's largest video game collections and you can schedule time there to research many of their artifacts and documentation.

A cool video to watch >> https://youtu.be/34Aernd6BdA

I had a Dell Exclaim! 486/50 from around 1993 a couple years ago. I posted about it here a few different times. There are some pics in this post:
Re: Bought these (retro) hardware today

Not the same front panel design, obviously, but there is so little information about Dells from that era that I figured it'd be worth mentioning. 😀

Ozzuneoj wrote on 2025-10-23, 05:38:

I had a Dell Exclaim! 486/50 from around 1993 a couple years ago. I posted about it here a few different times. There are some pics in this post:
Re: Bought these (retro) hardware today

Not the same front panel design, obviously, but there is so little information about Dells from that era that I figured it'd be worth mentioning. 😀

Nice PC, yeah its not the same but the design language seems similar.

In the meantime, I found an old ebay auction for a Dell 486 and the case really does look quite a lot like the PC Romero was using in 1993. I'm going to consider that one solved.

People also reached out to Tom Hall on my behalf for the PCs in the lake house pictures and he remembers some of them being early Gateway 2000 PCs. They don't look like they have the popular Gateway bulge styling that the 386, 486, pentium generation had, so maybe they were the earlier Gateways before that style, some 386s were made with those cases, which looked like this (although I don't think this one is a match):

Personally, I still think there's a good chance the PCs at the long table are using generic clone cases such as this:

People on social media have alternately suggested the Romero PC in images A and B is alternatively a Gateway 2000 (doubt it, doesn't look at all like one to me), a Compaq (they had similar round styling and semi-recessed drives at the time like this machine, but I haven't seen a model yet that looks closely like it), or a generic clone case of the mid 90s. Its also somewhat remniscent of the early HP Vectra line, but I haven't found a direct match amongst early HP PCs.

dukeofurl wrote on 2025-10-22, 01:08:

Once again, I don't recognize it, just guessing this is from the 386/486 era given the styling, perhaps a 486 given how demanding recording and music production was in terms of cpu usage.

Nah, music production is so demanding it needs an Pentium, at least!
- Just kidding! :D

Seriously, though, I think a 386/486 it likely was.
Strictly speaking, a fast 80286-based AT was good enough to do record/play/edit 8-Bit digital audio.
Just look at the minimum requirements for the original Sound Blaster line..

Even video playback on Windows 3.1 was possible with a fast PC/AT.
That's why the original MPC specfication had an 80286 (386SX in the revised spec).
More information and sources available here.

In practice, though, a computer for audio recording/editing probably was a 386/486.
Ideally an 33 Mhz 486DX or higher, I would say.
But an 33 MHz 386DX was on par with an 25 MHz 486SX, too, in most cases.

By 1994, the am386DX-40 was a very popular budget system that could compete with an 33 MHz 486SX just fine.
Users of a modern 386 PC not seldomly invested the money saved into buying more RAM.
The higher bus speed of a 40 MHz system even outperformed an slower 486 at memory operations.

Likewise, the 486DX2-66 was very popular among same time.
It had little to no compatibility issues (5V tolerant) and was a quick update that made old 486 mainboards shine.

The 486DX-50 was also very fast, but was more often found in CAD systems or Big Tower PCs.
It got hot and needed good hardware and proper grounding etc.
In a VLB system it was very a powerful processor. It was the hot-rod CPU, to say.

So yeah, not exactly sure what kind of system the PC had.
But given the time frame (~93) and since it's a humble desktop model without fancy upgrades (no CD-ROM drive!),
I assume it's something between a 386DX-33 and a 486DX-40 system.
Maybe with a bigger than normal SCSI drive and a Sound Blaster Pro.
A 486SX system would be possible too, since audio processing doesn't really require a math co-processor.

But again, it's just a guess. I'm not familiar with these computer brands.
Judging by the chassis design it's matching 386/486 era, though.

PS: I think in general it's always difficult to judge such things in retrospect, because we have high expectations of our "heros".
We tend to forget that they were just ordinary people when they started out.
They fooled around, did silly things, solved things by trial and error and so on.
In reality, the PC in question perhaps might have been something like a 386DX-25, even..

Jo22 wrote on 2025-10-23, 21:44:

PS: I think in general it's always difficult to judge such things in retrospect, because we have high expectations of our "heros […]
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dukeofurl wrote on 2025-10-22, 01:08:

Once again, I don't recognize it, just guessing this is from the 386/486 era given the styling, perhaps a 486 given how demanding recording and music production was in terms of cpu usage.

PS: I think in general it's always difficult to judge such things in retrospect, because we have high expectations of our "heros".
We tend to forget that they were just ordinary people when they started out.
They fooled around, did silly things, solved things by trial and error and so on.
In reality, the PC in question perhaps might have been something like a 386DX-25, even..

Hehe, yes I was thinking of this while reviewing the pictures. I think its quite telling that at least for the early era such as Commander Keen and Wolfenstein, ID software may have been using "good" PCs for the era, but it was nothing out of the ordinary and in any case, probably on par with the latest available home desktop PC you could get at the local computer store. Which goes to show, its not always the equipment you have but the creativity and ingenuity/skill that you have for using it. They made landmark bestselling games with PCs that probably weren't much better than your average family home PC... At least until a couple years later when they did start using some rare and highly expensive equipment with Doom (where they used NextStations for some of the development), and Quake (where they used a Silicon Graphics workstation for 3D modeling).

I'd be surprised if they were all using big brand OEM machines. Maybe one or 2 like the ones from softdisk but a new, small company with not much cash and plenty of technical ability. It wouldn't make scene.
People forget most companies even non technical businesses used generic PC's built by local PC shops due to price difference and better availability and service.

The large OEM's like Compaq, Dell, Gateway, etc only made sense for the really large national or international companies until the late 90's and pricing became much more competitive.

The one in picture 4 might possibly be an Austin, Swan or Zeos. I think the dark spot in the left corner which you suspect to be a control panel might actually be a logo. The right side of the PC appears to have a distinctive bulge, so the power switch is probably located there. You can probably track it down looking at old issues of PC World or PC Magazine from 1992-1993.

Wow, thanks so much for kicking off this thread! I'm currently reading Romero's book, and throughout each chapter I've been thinking, "Man, I wish I knew exactly what machines they were working on!" It's been driving my curiosity wild.

Linoleum wrote on 2025-10-24, 03:18:

Wow, thanks so much for kicking off this thread! I'm currently reading Romero's book, and throughout each chapter I've been thinking, "Man, I wish I knew exactly what machines they were working on!" It's been driving my curiosity wild.

Thanks yeah, I was reading masters of Doom and thinking the same thing. From a silly collector pov I was like, how cool would it be to get one or more examples of some of their computers and put their games on them. Not sure I'll ever do that though 😉

One possibility for image 4 is that it's an Everex. But the photo is so blurry, it's hard to know for sure.

I would say most of the PCs in the photos are name brand, not from local PC shops and not hand assembled.

Packard Bell?

dukeofurl wrote on 2025-10-23, 22:35:

Jo22 wrote on 2025-10-23, 21:44:

PS: I think in general it's always difficult to judge such things in retrospect, because we have high expectations of our "heros […]
Show full quote

dukeofurl wrote on 2025-10-22, 01:08:

Once again, I don't recognize it, just guessing this is from the 386/486 era given the styling, perhaps a 486 given how demanding recording and music production was in terms of cpu usage.

PS: I think in general it's always difficult to judge such things in retrospect, because we have high expectations of our "heros".
We tend to forget that they were just ordinary people when they started out.
They fooled around, did silly things, solved things by trial and error and so on.
In reality, the PC in question perhaps might have been something like a 386DX-25, even..

Hehe, yes I was thinking of this while reviewing the pictures. I think its quite telling that at least for the early era such as Commander Keen and Wolfenstein, ID software may have been using "good" PCs for the era, but it was nothing out of the ordinary and in any case, probably on par with the latest available home desktop PC you could get at the local computer store. Which goes to show, its not always the equipment you have but the creativity and ingenuity/skill that you have for using it. They made landmark bestselling games with PCs that probably weren't much better than your average family home PC... At least until a couple years later when they did start using some rare and highly expensive equipment with Doom (where they used NextStations for some of the development), and Quake (where they used a Silicon Graphics workstation for 3D modeling).

Hi! Exactly! That's what I had thought, too! 😃
So I showed the photo to my father, told him the year and asked him about the first specs that come to mind for such a PC (he sold+repaired PCs in the 90s, but here in Europe).
His words were "486" and "66 MHz". But since he was used to setup PCs for CAD people (fast 486/16 MB RAM/SCSI), I told him that this was more of an office PC rather than a workstation.
His second response was "33 MHz". Which essentially is same thing in terms of motherboard,
because most 66 MHz processors were clock-doubled 486DX2-66 running at 33 MHz bus (same as 33 MHz 486DX).
Interestingly, a 486DX-33 already was also my best guess if I had merely one choice to make.

Of course, it's also possible that the PC had different specs, but a contemporary model made/sold was a 486 between 25 and 66 MHz..
Budget systems excluded, of course. For office use, existing 286 PCs and new, compact 386 boards were still very common.

The am386DX-40 was very popular and rock-solid, for example. But was less being popular in video gaming, maybe.
The multimedia fans wanted VLB slots, which were rather 486 specific.
The latest 386 systems were great for upgrading older PCs to run Windows 3.1x, for example.
That's why some of the AMD chips have the Windows logo imprinted on the plastic version, even.

Edit: My father also had a 386DX-40 at home, because he did programming and business stuff.
He had installed 16 MB of RAM, though. Yes, the old 30 pin SIMMs.
He later upgraded from Windows 3.1 to Windows 95 (original version)..
It also was used to surf the internet via Netscape Navigator 2.

PS: A great source of information is the website of Red Hill Technology: https://redhill.net.au/
It has interesting comments for each processor, too..
For example, the hardware guide about 386DX-40 and early 486 processors: https://redhill.net.au/c/c-4.php

Thanks for making this thread. I do know that the Keen dev machines were 386-33s.

keenmaster486 wrote on 2025-10-26, 03:25:

I do know that the Keen dev machines were 386-33s.

Hi! Thanks a lot for the info! That's good to know! 😃

Because I think that in practice, the performance of a 386DX and a 486DX/SX is (was) not that drastically apart.
All three have 32-Bit I/O and some form of cache, with varying results.
Some 386 mainboards have big caches, while some 486 mainboards have little caches (but a 486 CPU with fast internal cache that makes up for it).

A 286 or 386SX might make more of a noticeable difference in practice.
The type VGA card would be a limiting factor, too.
With ET-4000AX and Trident 8900D being better performing than an, say, OAK OTI-37c..

All in all, that's why the average users back then, -for a few years-, only cared about how
much Megaherz a PC had rather than the CPU architecture and things like caches.

But I'm probably telling the obvious here.. 😅

I'm somewhat confident that the PC in picture 4 is a Packard Bell Force 386/33E (or a similar PB in the same case). Everything seems to line up perfectly with the blurry image.
As for the two PCs show in image 3, I am still working on it. They appear to be full size AT. The small black box is likely a MHz display, not a case badge, as the spacing is off. I would guess that they are a variation of the case used by the DTK 386-40 posted above. The DTK case is almost certainly made by Enlight.
I suspect that those two systems are at best 386s. Full sized desktop cases were the most common with 286 class systems, of course many earlier 386s (and even a few 486s) used them as well.

Good ideas guys! Thanks for theorizing.

Someone said it wouldn't have made sense for ID to use OEM stuff in this era due to the expense, but I recall that during the 90s the OEM stuff was sometimes more affordable than buying the same parts yourself, so I wouldn't count those out necessarily, especially when Tom Hall is saying they used some Gateways in the early days (even if the ones pictured don't look like Gateways), and Romero really looks like he's using a Dell by 1993.

dukeofurl wrote on 2025-10-26, 12:33:

Good ideas guys! Thanks for theorizing.

Someone said it wouldn't have made sense for ID to use OEM stuff in this era due to the expense, but I recall that during the 90s the OEM stuff was sometimes more affordable than buying the same parts yourself, so I wouldn't count those out necessarily, especially when Tom Hall is saying they used some Gateways in the early days (even if the ones pictured don't look like Gateways), and Romero really looks like he's using a Dell by 1993.

That was me 😉
Not saying They built the machines themselves. Would still be store brought but from a smaller store like the Redhill page linked above. A local computer shop that purchased fairly generic hardware at trade price and would undercut the large OEM's
I also wonder how accurate their memory is. Even myself who is interested in hardware have lost track of my work computers. I remember my first one sure, but after I start to forget make's and model numbers or which one replaced what.
So can imagine a bunch of software guys even less interested in the hardware getting things mixed up.

but as you say its all just theorizing and bit of fun

chinny22 wrote on Yesterday, 00:28:

That was me ;) Not saying They built the machines themselves. Would still be store brought but from a smaller store like the Red […]
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dukeofurl wrote on 2025-10-26, 12:33:

Good ideas guys! Thanks for theorizing.

Someone said it wouldn't have made sense for ID to use OEM stuff in this era due to the expense, but I recall that during the 90s the OEM stuff was sometimes more affordable than buying the same parts yourself, so I wouldn't count those out necessarily, especially when Tom Hall is saying they used some Gateways in the early days (even if the ones pictured don't look like Gateways), and Romero really looks like he's using a Dell by 1993.

That was me 😉
Not saying They built the machines themselves. Would still be store brought but from a smaller store like the Redhill page linked above. A local computer shop that purchased fairly generic hardware at trade price and would undercut the large OEM's
I also wonder how accurate their memory is. Even myself who is interested in hardware have lost track of my work computers. I remember my first one sure, but after I start to forget make's and model numbers or which one replaced what.
So can imagine a bunch of software guys even less interested in the hardware getting things mixed up.

but as you say its all just theorizing and bit of fun

I don't know about Tom, but I would trust John Romero's memory! He has a memory condition called hyperthymesia, also known as highly superior autobiographical recall, which gives him a vivid and detailed memory.