Jo22 wrote on 2025-10-27, 00:47:

OEM. Shipped on CD-ROM, because of "Multimedia PC" (MPC) specification.. A few pictures (no files) are here: https://winhistor […]
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sunkindly wrote on 2025-10-26, 03:14:

Was there an official physical release of Windows 3.0 MME? Or did it just come pre-installed on OEM machines?

OEM. Shipped on CD-ROM, because of "Multimedia PC" (MPC) specification..
A few pictures (no files) are here:
https://winhistory.de/more/win3.htm#win3me
https://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2016/12/ … tion-early.html

I could not find a picture of an MME CD-ROM, though. Sorry. 🙁
The Tandy version was probably most common,
but there also was at least one PC-98 port for Japanese PCs.

PS: There are quite some freeware/shareware games that support Windows 3.0 MME! 😃
https://win16.page/_winmme1.htm

Ahh, that's alright! I guess this is one of those few cases where I can't get the physical media.

Thanks for the link!

I'm a little bummed though that there's no support for the Sound Blaster 1.0 with a DSP version less than 2.0...

sunkindly wrote on 2025-10-27, 05:58:

Thanks for the link!

I'm a little bummed though that there's no support for the Sound Blaster 1.0 with a DSP version less than 2.0...

You're welcome! :)

I assume that's because the MPC standard demanded for CD quality audio..
The Tandy PC even had that exotic Sound Blaster Pro 16, which pre-dated the SB16 a little bit.

It basically was something between an SB Pro and a real SB16,
the minimum DSP revision of an assumed Tandy OEM setup was always higher than that of an original SB, thus.
Maybe that's why Windows 3 MME didn't ship with a matching sound driver for DSP 1.x, like Windows 3.1x did the year after.

However, you can still use regular Windows 3.0 (and MME or 3.1x) with the early Creative Sound Blaster drivers any time. They support SB 1 to SB Pro.
This will work with the early Windows 3.0 games that call sndblst.dll.
Games such as RoboSport..

The fun thing is, that the old sound API can work in Windows 3 Real-Mode on an Turbo XT. 😃
We discussed this a while ago over here: Adventures with Windows 3.0

Edit: It would be interesting to know if a Sound Blaster 1.x driver from Windows 3.1 (beta maybe?) can be made work on Windows 3.0 MME.
Windows 3.0 MME is still Windows 3.0, API wise, except for the multimedia system which is new.
And Windows 3.1 uses same WaveOut API, that's why Windows 3.0 MME compatible games have sound on Windows 3.1x too.

Peter Swinkels wrote on 2025-10-18, 15:54:

For what it is worth, I remember using Windows 3.0 on my parents's 80386 SX with 2mb ram, DOS 5, 80mb hdd and VGA card around 1991 and it left a bad impression on me. Unless you must use an XT and Windows, go for Windows 3.1x and a 386 or 486.

Windows 3.1 is perfectly fine on a 286 with 4MB of RAM - that said, I haven't tested performance when using XMS via an ISA memory expansion card.

From reading this thead I am surprised there is anything it all that would work on an XT with Windows 3.0. Probably slow as hell I am guessing.

There's a large number of games that will run on a XT - see the following links:
http://win16.page/_80881.htm
http://win16.page/_v20.htm

Some of them were surprisingly performant enough to not be a slideshow on a turbo XT, though it definitely helps to use a Cirrus Logic GD5402 or ATi mach8/mach32 as those are the only V20-compatible drivers that have a noticeable performance difference compared to other VGA chipsets - I'm pretty sure Worm War was designed with a IBM 5170 or a 9.55Mhz V20 in mind as it's extremely CPU speed sensitive.

Additionally if you're using a 286 with 1MB of RAM, the following games also work in Real Mode with Win 3.0:
http://win16.page/_286rm.htm

While I haven't really dived too far into utilities, all versions of Paint Shop (and v1.0 and v1.01 of Paint Shop Pro) will run on a XT, in addition to versions of Notebook (by Mark Berlinger) up until v1.D and versions of WinEdit up until v1.2J, though Notebook requires UMB+DOSMAX to get enough conventional memory, and I believe most versions of WinEdit also need that requirement. I'll need to get back to working on win16.page after I'm done finalising a community Doom WAD to properly archive Notebook and WinEdit and a bunch of other text editors that I've checked out, but you can get Paint Shop (Pro) from the following link:
http://win16.page/_utils.htm

Jo22 wrote on 2025-10-27, 06:11:

Edit: It would be interesting to know if a Sound Blaster 1.x driver from Windows 3.1 (beta maybe?) can be made work on Windows 3.0 MME.
Windows 3.0 MME is still Windows 3.0, API wise, except for the multimedia system which is new.
And Windows 3.1 uses same WaveOut API, that's why Windows 3.0 MME compatible games have sound on Windows 3.1x too.

Given that most Windows 3.1 display drivers for ISA cards work fine on Windows 3.0 from my testing (and that a lot of "framebuffer" chipset 256-colour drivers are based on Video 7 which is 8088-compatible, while the 16-colour drivers are based on Microsoft's VGA driver that requires a V20), I wouldn't rule out the possibility that Windows 3.1 sound drivers will work in MME. I did have some notes regarding display driver minimum CPU requirements that worked on XTs, but for some reason I've lost or misplaced those notes. I'll have to revisit this when I get time.

I'll have to test it on my actual 386 tomorrow but in 86box I was able to use sndblst.drv from the default Windows 3.1 Sound Blaster 1.0 driver and replaced the values placed for the Sound Blaster 1.5 driver with the Windows 3.0 MME system.ini...

and can now hear sounds in 3.0 MME with a Sound Blaster 1.0 selected!

Fingers crossed for actual hardware...

sunkindly wrote on 2025-10-28, 04:58:

I'll have to test it on my actual 386 tomorrow but in 86box I was able to use sndblst.drv from the default Windows 3.1 Sound Bla […]
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I'll have to test it on my actual 386 tomorrow but in 86box I was able to use sndblst.drv from the default Windows 3.1 Sound Blaster 1.0 driver and replaced the values placed for the Sound Blaster 1.5 driver with the Windows 3.0 MME system.ini...

and can now hear sounds in 3.0 MME with a Sound Blaster 1.0 selected!

Fingers crossed for actual hardware...

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I haven't figured out MIDI yet though.

sunkindly wrote on 2025-10-28, 06:34:

sunkindly wrote on 2025-10-28, 04:58:

I'll have to test it on my actual 386 tomorrow but in 86box I was able to use sndblst.drv from the default Windows 3.1 Sound Bla […]
Show full quote

I'll have to test it on my actual 386 tomorrow but in 86box I was able to use sndblst.drv from the default Windows 3.1 Sound Blaster 1.0 driver and replaced the values placed for the Sound Blaster 1.5 driver with the Windows 3.0 MME system.ini...

and can now hear sounds in 3.0 MME with a Sound Blaster 1.0 selected!

Fingers crossed for actual hardware...

The attachment sound1.png is no longer available

The attachment sound2.png is no longer available

The attachment sound3.png is no longer available

I haven't figured out MIDI yet though.

I guess it was a matter of emulation, because I got both wave and MIDI working in Windows 3.0 MME with the real Sound Blaster 1.0 on the 386.

It was simply:

-installing the Sound Blaster 1.5 drivers from the Windows 3.0 MME install to generate the driver structure in system.ini and to establish the MIDI Mapper config
-using sndblst.drv from the Windows 3.1 install for wave= instead of sb15snd.drv
-also replacing midi= with sndblst.drv and leaving sbfm.drv for midi1= (sbfm.drv is absolutely needed)
-putting sndblst.drv under [Multimedia.Setup] and giving it a section for IRQ as above

Haven't tested any Windows games though, any good candidates?

Since their own variant of 3.0 MME had been found (much cleaner and recommended over the better-known Tandy release) it is known Creative had something of a symbiotic relationship with Windows at that point...but that is for historical curiosity as 3.1 is better in every way, with even the multimedia upgrades and accessory applets unique to 3.0 MME installable on 3.1 via OEM releases (Gateway 2000 and Packard Bell are confirmed to exist, others possible): it typically goes by the name "Multimedia Pack for Windows 1.0" or something along those lines.

Peter Swinkels wrote on 2025-10-18, 15:54:

For what it is worth, I remember using Windows 3.0 on my parents's 80386 SX with 2mb ram, DOS 5, 80mb hdd and VGA card around 1991 and it left a bad impression on me.

Funny, that exactly describes the PC our family bought in 1991 and soon put Windows 3.0 on, and I look back on it quite fondly 😁 I have a backup of our Program Manager groups from late 1991 so I can look at an emulated reconstruction of it right now and remember why I liked it: it was reasonable for launching and switching between DOS programs, there were many cool little games (now easy to browse on https://win16.page/!), Visual Basic let me try to make my own applications, and it all just seemed like the future, like using a Mac!

From reading this thead I am surprised there is anything it all that would work on an XT with Windows 3.0. Probably slow as hell I am guessing.

Yeah, I would imagine it being painfully slow!

doshea wrote on 2025-10-31, 06:53:

From reading this thead I am surprised there is anything it all that would work on an XT with Windows 3.0. Probably slow as hell I am guessing.

Yeah, I would imagine it being painfully slow!

I second this. I tried Windows 3.0 on a Commodore PC 10 @4,77 MHz with V20, CF card+UMB card, 2 MB EMS and Paradise PVGA1C.

However, the main problem is RAM, I think.
Windows must try to squeeze everything into memory, maybe has to load/unload DLLs by doing so.

If the older MS-DOS Executive is run instead MS Program-Manager as a shell, it starts up quite reasonable fast.
It also has more RAM left to applications.

A Turbo XT at 10 MHz, maybe with an 8086 or V20/V30 would be fine for Windows 3.0.
The experience should be similar to running Windows 3.0 period-correctly on an IBM PS/2 Model 30 (8086) with MCGA graphics (640x480 mono).

However, RAM is really a bottleneck here.
640 KB of conventional memory were already too small for running Windows 2.x, left alone Windows 3.0!

At best, freeware programs such as GnuChess or Lander 3.0 will fit the memory,
provided that MS-DOS and its drivers can be pushed aside (via UMB card).

EMS would be a big help, I admit, but that Lo-Tech card has LIM4 driver with EMS 3.2 hardware with the related limitations (fixed 64 KB page frame).

So unless there's a way to provide that Large Page EMS to Windows 3.0, EMS is of little help.
For Windows 2.x, however, normal EMS is just fine. Most Windows applications seem to run with the Lo-Tech EMS card.
Though 4 MB would be really nice to have. Big applications like MS Excel or WinWord or PageMaker will hit the 2 MB boundary quickly.

Edit: There also were some integrated 8086 systems with EMS capabilities and a memory range beyond 1 MB.
Something like NEC V33 or that Vadem VG230.
They could run Windows 3.0 or GeoWorks Ensemble pretty well, I think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEC_V20#Variant … _and_successors

Edited.

sunkindly wrote on 2025-10-30, 03:47:

Haven't tested any Windows games though, any good candidates?

v1.0 of Comet Busters is the best candidate I can think of for 3.0MME specifically. Listing 3.0 as a minimum requirement is not a typo - the game is very well-coded and has a soft requirement for MMSYSTEM.DLL, it will happily chug along with PC speaker support if that DLL doesn't exist.

Hit or Miss showcases a very clear difference in how sound is processed between 3.0MME and 3.1, to the detriment of 3.0MME.

Other general recommendations:
Battles on a Distant Desert
v1.0 or v1.21 of Dr. Harrison
Econ's Arena
v1.0 of Goldpusher
Jewel Master
MacBlaster
Ms. Chomp
Prairie Dog Hunt
SinkSub
STARDATE 2140.2: Battles on Distant Planets
Winvade
WormWorld

BaronSFel001 wrote on 2025-10-30, 21:19:

but that is for historical curiosity as 3.1 is better in every way

I agree, especially as 3.0MME bumps the requirement up to a 286. My only interest with 3.0MME is with documenting minimum OS requirements for win16.page.