DaveDDS wrote on 2025-11-29, 01:01:

I don't see why you couldn't - I've done it on 5.25" disks a few times - 3.5" seem more delicate and would be easier to damage. […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-11-28, 17:33:

Is it not possible to take a diskette out of it's case and put it into another? ...

I don't see why you couldn't - I've done it on 5.25" disks a few times - 3.5" seem more delicate and would be easier to damage.

Also, make sure you use the same case type as the original - there's an extra hole in 3.5" HD media that's not in DD media - that's how the FDC knows what
date rates it should try.

I tried it a few times with spare 3.5” disks and got the same result each time. 😕

Um, what’s HD, DD, and FDC? 😅 I’m not even sure what the original game disk uses.

I discovered the box of spares I ordered were all ‘corrupted’, or faulty, according to NFORMAT, save one or two, so I’ll need to order some more. Incidentally, what are the best brands? These were Maxwell, but they felt a bit cheap.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-11-29, 01:33:

Um, what’s HD, DD, and FDC?

HD = High Density - can store 1.44M (1.2M for 5.25")
DD = Doubke Density - can store 720k (360k for 5.25")
FDC = Floppy Disk Controller - the PC hardware that talks to the floppy drives.

DD disks have only one hole in the edge at the back, usually it has a slide to allow it to be covered - This enables Write Protect

HD has an extra not-coverable hole on the other edge at the back (away from slot side) - this lets the drive/FDC know that it needs to use a different data rate and magnetic strength when talking to the disk - the media is also different - if you put DD media in and HD case (or vice versa) it won't work correctly (but might still appear to work in some cases)

Btw, the reason the lower is "Double"density - way back in the dark ages when floppies where first invented the data was stored a certain way which later became known as "Single" density (SD) - later on techniques were developed to store the data with less embedded clock bits which resulted in twice as many effective data bits in the same area - this was called "Double" density (DD) still later methods were developed to use higher data rates and differenr magnetic coericivity to store even more data bits "High" density (HD).

SD was never officially used on the PC ... (and many PC FDCs can't even do SD) - hence the lowest capacity disks commonly used on a PC are DD

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-11-29, 02:41:

HD = High Density - can store 1.44M (1.2M for 5.25") DD = Doubke Density - can store 720k (360k for 5.25") FDC = Floppy Disk Con […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-11-29, 01:33:

Um, what’s HD, DD, and FDC?

HD = High Density - can store 1.44M (1.2M for 5.25")
DD = Doubke Density - can store 720k (360k for 5.25")
FDC = Floppy Disk Controller - the PC hardware that talks to the floppy drives.

DD disks have only one hole in the edge at the back, usually it has a slide to allow it to be covered - This enables Write Protect

HD has an extra not-coverable hole on the other edge at the back (away from slot side) - this lets the drive/FDC know that it needs to use a different data rate and magnetic strength when talking to the disk - the media is also different - if you put DD media in and HD case (or vice versa) it won't work correctly (but might still appear to work in some cases)

Btw, the reason the lower is "Double"density - way back in the dark ages when floppies where first invented the data was stored a certain way which later became known as "Single" density (SD) - later on techniques were developed to store the data with less embedded clock bits which resulted in twice as many effective data bits in the same area - this was called "Double" density (DD) still later methods were developed to use higher data rates and differenr magnetic coericivity to store even more data bits "High" density (HD).

SD was never officially used on the PC ... (and many PC FDCs can't even do SD) - hence the lowest capacity disks commonly used on a PC are DD

I see. Interesting. Thanks for clarifying. 🙂 But yes, definitely been using HD. I did know what FDC was actually, but wasn’t thinking clearly at the time. 😖😅

So yeah, I need to find/get some good quality floppies. And ones that work, unlike the last batch. I have got a box I have my eye on that are sealed, so hopefully they are new and not faulty. I think they’re Sony IBM ones…? I briefly read that IBM brands are supposed to be good? But apart from the quality, I can’t understand why they keep getting full of bad sectors when swapping them. I watched this guy’s video on how to disassemble them, but still had issues - https://youtu.be/JVuYA77Q0yI

Didn’t even know they were called ‘cookies’. 😄 But my original cookie for the game has some weird marks, which were probably made when I cleaned it following another video. 😖

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-11-29, 02:41:

HD = High Density - can store 1.44M (1.2M for 5.25") DD = Doubke Density - can store 720k (360k for 5.25") FDC = Floppy Disk Con […]
Show full quote

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-11-29, 01:33:

Um, what’s HD, DD, and FDC?

HD = High Density - can store 1.44M (1.2M for 5.25")
DD = Doubke Density - can store 720k (360k for 5.25")
FDC = Floppy Disk Controller - the PC hardware that talks to the floppy drives.

DD disks have only one hole in the edge at the back, usually it has a slide to allow it to be covered - This enables Write Protect

HD has an extra not-coverable hole on the other edge at the back (away from slot side) - this lets the drive/FDC know that it needs to use a different data rate and magnetic strength when talking to the disk - the media is also different - if you put DD media in and HD case (or vice versa) it won't work correctly (but might still appear to work in some cases)

Btw, the reason the lower is "Double"density - way back in the dark ages when floppies where first invented the data was stored a certain way which later became known as "Single" density (SD) - later on techniques were developed to store the data with less embedded clock bits which resulted in twice as many effective data bits in the same area - this was called "Double" density (DD) still later methods were developed to use higher data rates and differenr magnetic coericivity to store even more data bits "High" density (HD).

SD was never officially used on the PC ... (and many PC FDCs can't even do SD) - hence the lowest capacity disks commonly used on a PC are DD

Just going through ImageDisk and the different tools. However, I'm a little confused with how you exit some of them. For instance, when I used Debug, I get the '\' symbol, but I can't seem to 'exit' from the tool. Likewise with IMD. It keeps saying it can't read drive B (my Gotek), but pressing 'a' to abort doesn't do anything and just says the same thing. Thanks.

Quit debug is "q", for other programs, try CTRL+C or CTRL+pause/break

asdf53 wrote on 2025-11-29, 18:04:

Quit debug is "q", for other programs, try CTRL+C or CTRL+pause/break

Thanks. I don't have the debug tool on now - installed it and didn't realise I didn't need it. ^^; But when I load IMD, it keeps saying 'Not ready reading drive B' (my Gotek and what ImageDisk is running from), but sadly 'q' doesn't work. I just keep getting the Abort, Retry and Fail. Same with Ctrl + C and Ctrl + Pause/Break.

Whenever I type IMD.com a: or / a: it just keeps trying to access drive B.

In IMD main menu, Settings -> select dvice

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-11-29, 18:56:

In IMD main menu, Settings -> select dvice

Hmm. I take it the correct way of accessing IMD's menu is typing IMD.COM? I've had to type IMD.COM /h to get to the settings and the device is A by default. However, if I type IMD.COM, it just says 'Not ready reading drive B. Abort, Retry, Ignore, Fail'

But anyway, I've sorted the floppy disk! 😁 The cookie I put in last night still wound up having one bad sector on track 65, I think. The magnet trick didn't work, but using ImageDisk's formatting tool, I selected the Erase option and then when I tried NFORMAT, it didn't report one bad sector. 😁 I've since written the game's disk 1 image to it and it did it without issues. 😀

IMD doesn't try to access the floppy drive until you tell it to.

What it does do is show basic help when it starts - which means it opens the file: IMD.HLP
I do this because otherwise I get so many questions about "how to..." a new user might look through the help a bit...
You can exit help at any time with ESC - I just get used to hitting EST to clear the help screen when I start IMD.

But... If you really don't want that screen to appear, I provide a /H option to disable the initial help.

So.. if you are running from drive B: and getting an error on startup that doesn't happen with /H ... this means
it's erroring reading IMD.HLP - can you actually access this file on the boot disk? (you could trying TYPEing it - will show lots of trash binary data but you should not get an error)

If you are using my IMD bootable, it should have DDLINK on it - DDLINK will let you view files, can you view IMD.HLP?
(It's got embedded control information and will either look weird, or may trigger a binary/hex view)

If you delete (or rename) IMD.HLP, IMD will indicate that it couldn't find it's help file at startup, but
will run - just with no help.

But... if you have file system problems on the boot disk you will likely run into other problems ...
Does the boot create a RAMdisk OK? You can read images into that- that's what it's for - read images into RAMdisk and then use DDLINK to transfer to another system)

And I think you are really going to want the interacrive help - you should figure out why it can't read IMD.HLP

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-11-29, 21:00:

IMD doesn't try to access the floppy drive until you tell it to. […]
Show full quote

IMD doesn't try to access the floppy drive until you tell it to.

What it does do is show basic help when it starts - which means it opens the file: IMD.HLP
I do this because otherwise I get so many questions about "how to..." a new user might look through the help a bit...
You can exit help at any time with ESC - I just get used to hitting EST to clear the help screen when I start IMD.

But... If you really don't want that screen to appear, I provide a /H option to disable the initial help.

So.. if you are running from drive B: and getting an error on startup that doesn't happen with /H ... this means
it's erroring reading IMD.HLP - can you actually access this file on the boot disk? (you could trying TYPEing it - will show lots of trash binary data but you should not get an error)

If you are using my IMD bootable, it should have DDLINK on it - DDLINK will let you view files, can you view IMD.HLP?
(It's got embedded control information and will either look weird, or may trigger a binary/hex view)

If you delete (or rename) IMD.HLP, IMD will indicate that it couldn't find it's help file at startup, but
will run - just with no help.

But... if you have file system problems on the boot disk you will likely run into other problems ...
Does the boot create a RAMdisk OK? You can read images into that- that's what it's for - read images into RAMdisk and then use DDLINK to transfer to another system)

And I think you are really going to want the interacrive help - you should figure out why it can't read IMD.HLP

Hmm. I'm not sure. I put ImageDisk on my flash floppy drive. I had just the main files and then I only installed ImageDisk, which it also installed to my b drive. I thought it was going to install on either a RAM disk or the C drive, so got a bit confused when it installed onto the same drive. I did open the IMD.HLP and saw a lot of hectic text, but I opened it by typing edit IMD.HLP instead. But no, I don't believe it came up with any help on start. I loaded up IMD.COM and then just got greeted with it saying it can't read from drive B. Then I'm not able to exit. I have to Ctrl, Alt, Del to restart the PC. Only typing IMD.COM /h gives me the various options, such as settings etc.

I'll have to try transferring the files back to my pen drive again in case anything got messed up.

I'm not sure what you mean by "it installed"

ImageDisk doesn't "Install" - IMD.COM is just a DOS program that you run from wherever you put that package files.

If you use by boot floppy image, the startup/boot menu lets you pick what you want to have available, then sets up a RAMdrive and unpacks the various softwre there...

Note that IMD.HLP isn't a text file, and I don't know exactly what EDIT will do with it. Edit may not read all the file at startup - and most certainly will NOT read it past the DOS end-of-text character (0x1A) which does occur in several places within IMD.HLP - so I don't think you are testing reading the whole file. Even type will stop at 0x1A

Good way to test if you can read the whole file is tp COPY it to another file. Another way is to use 'V'iew within my DDLINK (which is included on the IMD boot diskette image) - and press F1 if you need to switch it to Binary/hex display - then END go to the end of the file - (or better yet, hold down PgDn till it reads/shows each page to the end)

DaveDDS wrote on 2025-11-30, 11:26:

I'm not sure what you mean by "it installed" […]
Show full quote

I'm not sure what you mean by "it installed"

ImageDisk doesn't "Install" - IMD.COM is just a DOS program that you run from wherever you put that package files.

If you use by boot floppy image, the startup/boot menu lets you pick what you want to have available, then sets up a RAMdrive and unpacks the various softwre there...

Note that IMD.HLP isn't a text file, and I don't know exactly what EDIT will do with it. Edit may not read all the file at startup - and most certainly will NOT read it past the DOS end-of-text character (0x1A) which does occur in several places within IMD.HLP - so I don't think you are testing reading the whole file. Even type will stop at 0x1A

Good way to test if you can read the whole file is tp COPY it to another file. Another way is to use 'V'iew within my DDLINK (which is included on the IMD boot diskette image) - and press F1 if you need to switch it to Binary/hex display - then END go to the end of the file - (or better yet, hold down PgDn till it reads/shows each page to the end)

When you run MINSTALL and get the blue menu with all the different things to include. I figured that's where you're 'installing' it. Or extracting. But it does it to the same drive it's on, in my case B. I'm guessing it actually extracts.

But yeah, I believe I have the boot floppy image on my Gotek. But that's where I'm confused about it supposedly doing it to a RAMdisk as I thought that would add it as a 'next available drive'? A 'temporary drive', if you will.

This time around I didn't install/extract everything, just IMD. The last time I tried to extract everything it kept failing to do IMD for some reason. But I'll try playing around with it later. See if I can get the IMD.HLP to load properly.

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-11-30, 12:51:

When you run MINSTALL and get the blue menu with all the different things to include. I figured that's where you're 'installing' it. Or extracting. But it does it to the same drive it's on, in my case B. I'm guessing it actually extracts.

MINSTALL is the "Menu Installer" on my boot disk image. It gets run by AUTOEXEC.BAT, relies on some things setup in CONFIG.SYS and isn't something an end user should be running.

Part of the bootdisk startup process is to create a RAMdrive where things get unpacked to... This is basically my method of putting "lots of stuff" on a bootable floppy without needing an accessible hard drive - it doesn't have anything to do specifically with ImageDisk.

I never designed it as a general installer - just a tool I created to make high functionality bootable diskettes (I have no recollection on if/how I documented it - this was something I created *many* years ago and haven't had problems with - so I've not revisited it much)

I've been a bit distracted with investigating other issues, but once I get a moment, I'll play around with Image Disk a bit more. 😀

As to my original problem - it looks like I'm not quite out of the woods yet. Even though I found an image of disk 1 online, it doesn't appear to be the correct disk 1 I had. When it comes to installing, and switching to disk 2, the installer fails. I need to find some way of finding out the exact version I now have of disk 1 and compare it to my other disks.

when you cleaned the drive did you use one of those head cleaning disks? (and the oil)

liverygone wrote on 2025-12-04, 19:06:

when you cleaned the drive did you use one of those head cleaning disks? (and the oil)

No. Wasn't going to either. The last time I opened a floppy drive I knackered it. ^^;

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-12-04, 19:09:

liverygone wrote on 2025-12-04, 19:06:

when you cleaned the drive did you use one of those head cleaning disks? (and the oil)

No. Wasn't going to either. The last time I opened a floppy drive I knackered it. ^^;

I ment one of those cleaning disks you put in like a regular floppy,no need to open the drive. Its a semi abrasive clot that you put oil on to get a better clean and reduce particles, you just put it in the drive spins it up and cleans the head then you take it out tada! clean reading head, it kinda works like a sanding disk.

depends on what you get but most of the time it recommends just using isopropyl

Ohh, I see. But no, cleaning the drive wasn’t the issue. It was getting files off a damaged floppy disk. Sadly I wasn’t able to, but then I struggled on putting files back to it, which I managed to solve in the end. 🙂

DustyShinigami wrote on 2025-12-04, 19:44:

Ohh, I see. But no, cleaning the drive wasn’t the issue. It was getting files off a damaged floppy disk. Sadly I wasn’t able to, but then I struggled on putting files back to it, which I managed to solve in the end. 🙂

is it damaged or is it corrupted?