shevalierwrote on 2025-12-02, 07:02:6ALX
I440X Main Board 23
SB-LINK is used to attach any “PC/PCI” standard sound card like Creative
AWE64D or Yamaha XG…for compat […] Show full quote
6ALX
I440X Main Board 23 SB-LINK is used to attach any “PC/PCI” standard sound card like Creative
AWE64D or Yamaha XG…for compatibility under DOS mode
If you find a Yamaha with a soldered SB-Link header, it will greatly expand the application options for this motherboard.
SB-LINK reduces the gap between PCI and ISA cards in pure DOS only - it wouldn't do anything to fix Windows audio.
it will greatly expand the application options for this motherboard.
The 440LX fundamentally does not support processors with SSE instructions.
When an application using these instructions is launched for the first time, these motherboards freeze.
Therefore, only Celeron Mendocino is supported.
And that is essentially DOS+Windows 98, by and large.
And nothing more
But, the OP is not using DOS (at least not in the current troubleshooting). Offering a fix for DOS issues is like offering a fix for Linux - it's just off topic.
I don't remember Win98SE well but I'd try: Disable the Firewire port in safe mode. If that helps Win98SE boot properly then we know what needs fixing.
Last edited by MattRocks on 2025-12-02, 07:34. Edited 1 time in total.
SB-LINK reduces the gap between PCI and ISA cards in pure DOS only - it wouldn't do anything to fix Windows audio.
it will greatly expand the application options for this motherboard.
The 440LX fundamentally does not support processors with SSE instructions.
When an application using these instructions is launched for the first time, these motherboards freeze.
Therefore, only Celeron Mendocino is supported.
And that is essentially DOS+Windows 98, by and large.
And nothing more
But, the OP is not using DOS (at least not in the current troubleshooting). Offering a fix for DOS issues is like offering a fix for Linux - it's just off topic.
I apologise, of course, but the quote clearly states that he is considering purchasing another sound card. 😀
Which is also a solution to the problem with Audigy.
it will greatly expand the application options for this motherboard.
The 440LX fundamentally does not support processors with SSE instructions.
When an application using these instructions is launched for the first time, these motherboards freeze.
Therefore, only Celeron Mendocino is supported.
And that is essentially DOS+Windows 98, by and large.
And nothing more
But, the OP is not using DOS (at least not in the current troubleshooting). Offering a fix for DOS issues is like offering a fix for Linux - it's just off topic.
I apologise, of course, but the quote clearly states that he is considering purchasing another sound card. 😀
Which is also a solution to the problem with Audigy.
Fair enough. Those two sound cards are among the hardest to find. I think some Creative ES???? cards also have SB-LINK; might be easier to source?
shevalier, what I'm saying is, at this point, I'm not worried about what is going on with the disk throughput results, whatever the reason might be (CPU or not). I will come back to it later on.
I don't see a reason why FX5200 and Audigy 2 ZS can't work together, there are sufficient PCI lanes for both cards. The machine has 512GB RAM. Regarding the chipset, indeed, in my message just above yours, I have the ordering of the chipset installation. I downloaded the 440LX chipset drivers for 98 from https://www.philscomputerlab.com/intel-chipset-drivers.html
XP is a good idea, but I'm more familiar with Linux.
And indeed, as soon as Linux starts, I'm greeted with the following:
1irq 11: nobody cared (try booting with the "irqpoll" option) 2 3 4handlers: 5[<...>] usb_hcq_irq 6Disabling IRQ 11 7irq 11: nobody cared (try booting with the "irqpoll" option) 8handlers: 9[<...>] usb_hcq_irq 10[<...>] snd_emu10k1_interrupt [snd_emu10k1] 11Disabling IRQ 11
which could be an indication that there is something wrong with the Augidy card itself. I'll investigate more tomorrow.
That being said, I played a few songs using mpg123 and they were fine. I couldn't (yet) get X11 running, nouveau doesn't like the card, I may need to use a legacy closed-sourced driver from AUR.
MattRocks, the board indeed supports SB-LINK and I was considering buying a Yamaha card for DOS games eventually.
Last edited by hydraphone on 2025-12-02, 07:52. Edited 1 time in total.
But, the OP is not using DOS (at least not in the current troubleshooting). Offering a fix for DOS issues is like offering a fix for Linux - it's just off topic.
I apologise, of course, but the quote clearly states that he is considering purchasing another sound card. 😀
Which is also a solution to the problem with Audigy.
Fair enough. Those two sound cards are among the hardest to find. I think some Creative ES???? cards also have SB-LINK; might be easier to source?
Come on.
Is the noname Chinese Yamaha ymf744 already considered an ultra-rare item?
Where is this world heading...
shevalier, the 440LX AGPSet has 32 PCI lanes and supports up to 4 slots, each supporting full 133MB/s bandwidth. The fact that this motherboard 5 PCI slots means there is a PCI bridge and some of the PCI slots share bandwidth, but I can't find the details in the motherboard manual.
shevalier, the 440LX AGPSet has 32 PCI lanes and supports up to 4 slots, each supporting full 133MB/s bandwidth. The fact that this motherboard 5 PCI slots means there is a PCI bridge and some of the PCI slots share bandwidth, but I can't find the details in the motherboard manual.
This may be a misunderstanding? The 440LX has a single shared PCI bus that supports 5 bus masters (ie five slots), the concept of lanes on consumer hardware was introduced with PCI Express
98/DOS Rig: BabyAT AladdinV, K6-2+/550, V3 2000, 128MB PC100, 20GB HDD, 128GB SD2IDE, SB Live!, SB16-SCSI, PicoGUS, WP32 McCake, iNFRA CD, ZIP100
XP Rig: Lian Li PC-10 ATX, Gigabyte X38-DQ6, Core2Duo E6850, ATi HD5870, 2GB DDR2, 2TB HDD, X-Fi XtremeGamer
I don't see a reason why FX5200 and Audigy 2 ZS can't work together, there are sufficient PCI lanes for both cards.
As NeoG_ said, this is not PCIe. So we do not talk about lanes.
PCI is a parallel system with 32 bits on a 440LX and a separate AGP system with also 32 bit parallel but double clock frequency and 2 transfers per clock.
That is a classic PCI bus with a separate AGP slot. So the bandwith of 133 MB/s on the PCI bus is shared to all PCI slots, while the AGP has 533 MB/s in its 2x incarnation. However, AGP system and PCI system are interconnected through a bridge.
Disruptorwrote on 2025-12-02, 08:58:As NeoG_ said, this is not PCIe. So we do not talk about lanes.
PCI is a parallel system with 32 bits on a 440LX and a separate […] Show full quote
I don't see a reason why FX5200 and Audigy 2 ZS can't work together, there are sufficient PCI lanes for both cards.
As NeoG_ said, this is not PCIe. So we do not talk about lanes.
PCI is a parallel system with 32 bits on a 440LX and a separate AGP system with also 32 bit parallel but double clock frequency and 2 transfers per clock.
That is a classic PCI bus with a separate AGP slot. So the bandwith of 133 MB/s on the PCI bus is shared to all PCI slots, while the AGP has 533 MB/s in its 2x incarnation. However, AGP system and PCI system are interconnected through a bridge.
I agree, and just think about maxing out the PCI cards: Fast scrolling and animations on 2D Windows 98 desktop at WXGA resolutions (~20MB/s) and 48KHz audio maxed out with simultaneous recording and playback (~20MB/s) - these represent no stretch at all for the 100-133MB/s PCI bus. And, under the realistic loads at initialisation where everything is static and one WAV is playing the bandwidth demand is negligible. There is no logical reason to think the reported symptoms are related to bandwidth constraints.
I am 99% sure this is a Creative Labs driver problem.
I am 90% sure that disabling the FireWire port in safe mode will be an effective fix (unless you have Firewire devices).
I am 80% sure the Win98SE FireWire patches will solve the problem.
I am 60% sure tension can be resolved by disabling ports in the BIOS to relax IRQ competition (unless you combine Serial + Parallel + USB + Firewire + ISA ... but really, nobody does that).
If there were a hardware fault on the Audigy card then I'd expect failure to initialise - that would meaning no audio, not crackling audio!
As the OP is familiar with Linux, perhaps FreeBSD can shed light on what is going on. FreeBSD is more stable than Linux and easy-ish for a Linux user to pick up? I can confirm Audigy2 ZS is supported in FreeBSD.
Last edited by MattRocks on 2025-12-02, 10:12. Edited 1 time in total.
Disruptorwrote on 2025-12-02, 08:58:As NeoG_ said, this is not PCIe. So we do not talk about lanes.
PCI is a parallel system with 32 bits on a 440LX and a separate […] Show full quote
I don't see a reason why FX5200 and Audigy 2 ZS can't work together, there are sufficient PCI lanes for both cards.
As NeoG_ said, this is not PCIe. So we do not talk about lanes.
PCI is a parallel system with 32 bits on a 440LX and a separate AGP system with also 32 bit parallel but double clock frequency and 2 transfers per clock.
That is a classic PCI bus with a separate AGP slot. So the bandwith of 133 MB/s on the PCI bus is shared to all PCI slots, while the AGP has 533 MB/s in its 2x incarnation. However, AGP system and PCI system are interconnected through a bridge.
I agree, and just think about maxing out the PCI cards: 2D Windows 98 desktop at WXGA resolutions (~20MB/s) and 48KHz audio maxed out with simultaneous recording and playback (~20MB/s) represents no stretch at all for the 100-133MB/s PCI bus. There is no logical reason to think the reported symptoms are related to bandwidth constraints.
The bandwidth may be fine.
I'm talking about latency.
Both the video card and sound card are very sensitive to delays.
If the time quantum is released simultaneously for both the video frame and the audio sample, they will both want to occupy the bus at the same time.
A completely different operating system with a different driver model.
As far as I remember, Audigy is used at the AC97 codec level, i.e. without any hardware offloading.
If the problems cannot be solved, but you want to keep this particular motherboard for Windows 98,
I would recommend simply getting an AGP MX440 and a Yamaha with SB-Link.
Most likely, this will be a fully functional and sufficient option for the Celeron Mendocino.
If the OP is not using pure DOS then SB-LINK is a red herring: If a card with SB-LINK solves the problem, it would be because removing Audigy2 SZ solved the problem - not because adding SB-LINK fixed anything.
GF4MX instead of GF5FX is another red-herring: Swapping them is not going to make a difference to 2D Windows 98 desktop. If OP seeks full DX8 hardware acceleration they would be better off with the GF5FX.
An AGP card isolates the GPU from whatever is happening on PCI bus: If removing the GPU from the PCI bus solves the problem, it would be because removing the GPU evades a conflict - not because it fixed the source of conflict. Could test if audio behaves better when video runs on pure software VESA drivers - I suspect no change but no harm in trying.
This is what I'd do with Audigy2 ZS: Safe mode → Highlight the FireWire device → click Properties → check “Disable in this hardware profile”. Reboot. If that works, then I'd know to hunt Win98SE FireWire fixes (there were many) or just leave FireWire disabled.
Ironically, one of the best things about Audigy2 ZS is that it features a very reliable Texas Instruments FireWire controller - TI silicon much stabler and more compatible than the cheaper silicon featured on most dedicated FireWire PCI cards! The challenge seems to be getting Win98SE to understand what a FireWire controller is..
As far as I remember, Audigy is used at the AC97 codec level, i.e. without any hardware offloading.
No, AC'97 is a dumb software codec (pioneered by Intel) whereas Audigy (and Audigy2 ZS) has full hardware DSP.
What you are remembering is Microsoft taking over the audio stack, gradually replacing all different kinds of audio hardware acceleration with its own Microsoft software audio experience. By the time you get to Windows Vista, all audio hardware DSPs have been disabled by Microsoft redirecting everything to the CPU and everything sounds the same (dumb AC'97 sounded exactly like 100MHz EMU hardware because both were hijacked by Microsoft). WinXP is somewhere in the middle.
But, in Win98SE the Audigy hardware is real silicon doing real work - not a dumb AC'97 codec. The crackles and pops are the real experience, and should show zero CPU load - except for the drivers and control panels etc.
Attached whatever landed in my Downloads folder. Use at your own risk: I cannot promise this works. I haven't used it myself - and I haven't even tried to extract it so to check this isn't just a HTML broken link error!
Come on.
Is the noname Chinese Yamaha ymf744 already considered an ultra-rare item?
Where is this world heading...
Uncommon - you can find them, and they are demanding a premium.
/offtopic
Hurray, it turns out I'm a secret millionaire! Re: Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide
Although I had a strong urge to just throw it away.
Thank you, I'll keep that in mind.
No, AC'97 is a dumb software codec (pioneered by Intel) whereas Audigy (and Audigy2 ZS) has full hardware DSP.
I'm talking about testing in Linux.
The 440LX definitely does not support Coppermine, just like and the ZX.
On the 400-533 Celeron Mendocino, the AGP 440MX is simply a classic, trouble-free combination.
Cheap and productive (for this processor).
On the 400-533 Celeron Mendocino, the AGP 440MX is simply a classic, trouble-free combination.
Cheap and productive (for this processor).
Fair. I'd also be tempted to add RV100 to a test bucket. RV100 has lighter drivers - it's actually a Rage 128 on steroids and ideal for a DX6 dual against TNT2 Ultra. But, the glitch is about getting EMU10K2 audio working in Win98 - we are debating everything except audio, or everything except Win98! 😁
we are debating everything except audio, or everything except Win98! 😁
If Audigy + FX5200 PCI do not work under Windows XP on this particular motherboard, then I am sure that this combination will not work under Windows 98 either.
The 440LX definitely does not support Coppermine, just like and the ZX.
What makes you so sure with the ZX not supporting Coppermine?
The ZX is the low cost variant of the BX - and the BX supports Coppermines of course.
The EX is the low cost variant of the LX.
Disruptorwrote on 2025-12-02, 13:49:What makes you so sure with the ZX not supporting Coppermine?
The ZX is the low cost variant of the BX - and the BX supports Cop […] Show full quote
The 440LX definitely does not support Coppermine, just like and the ZX.
What makes you so sure with the ZX not supporting Coppermine?
The ZX is the low cost variant of the BX - and the BX supports Coppermines of course.
The EX is the low cost variant of the LX.
/off
As far as I remember from that old discussion, it definitely doesn't work on LX. On ZX,I remember, too.
That is, Coppermine installs and works. In Windows 98 and programmes without SSE instructions.
Windows XP (with some service pack) - it doesn't even install anymore.
They came to the vague conclusion that the "SSE instructions are too long and overload the memory controller."
PS. ZX probably supports Coppermine/Tualatin processors, since Pentium 3 Katmai had SSE.
That's what ZX was released for.
As always, thats have to check it yourself.
But unfortunately, I don't have a working motherboard on ZX.
NeoG_, you are absolutely right, and it's totally on me to believe in the search "AI" summary without properly checking
If I'm reading https://bitsavers.org/components/intel/_dataS … 43LX_199801.pdf correctly, AGP has it's own "lane" that is separate from the PCI. It is not clear to me whether all PCI slots share the single 32-bit 33MHz interface or not, but if they do, that makes it clear that I need an AGP card for this build. I guess I'll start shopping for a new old stock GeForce 4- or 5-series card.
That being said, under Windows 98SE, the sound problems are present at 640x480 at 16 color depth, with only one or two 48KHz audio streams playing.
61 Latency: 32 (1250ns min, 250ns max) 62 Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 10 63 Region 0: Memory at e8000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M] 64 Region 1: Memory at e0000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=128M] 65 Expansion ROM at 000c0000 [virtual] [disabled] [size=128K] 66 Capabilities: [60] Power Management version 2 67 Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1- D2- AuxCurrent=0mA PME(D0-,D1-,D2-,D3hot-,D3cold-) 68 Status: D0 NoSoftRst- PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME- 69 Kernel driver in use: nvidiafb 70 Kernel modules: nvidiafb, nouveau 71 7200:0a.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs EMU10k2/CA0100/CA0102/CA10200 [Sound Blaster Audigy Series] (rev 04) 73 Subsystem: Creative Labs SB0350 Audigy 2 ZS 74 Control: I/O+ Mem- BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx- 75 Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx- 76 Latency: 32 (500ns min, 5000ns max) 77 Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 11 78 Region 0: I/O ports at e400 [size=64] 79 Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 2 80 Flags: PMEClk- DSI+ D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA PME(D0-,D1-,D2-,D3hot-,D3cold-) 81 Status: D0 NoSoftRst- PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME- 82 Kernel driver in use: snd_emu10k1 83 Kernel modules: snd_emu10k1 84 8500:0a.1 Input device controller: Creative Labs SB Audigy Game Port (rev 04) 86 Subsystem: Creative Labs SB Audigy Game Port 87 Control: I/O+ Mem- BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx- 88 Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx- 89 Latency: 32 90 Region 0: I/O ports at e800 [size=8] 91 Capabilities: [dc] Power Management version 2 92 Flags: PMEClk- DSI+ D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA PME(D0-,D1-,D2-,D3hot-,D3cold-) 93 Status: D0 NoSoftRst- PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME- 94 Kernel driver in use: Emu10k1_gameport 95 Kernel modules: emu10k1_gp 96 9700:0a.2 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Creative Labs SB Audigy FireWire Port (rev 04) (prog-if 10 [OHCI]) 98 Subsystem: Creative Labs SB Audigy FireWire Port 99 Control: I/O- Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx- 100 Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B- ParErr- DEVSEL=medium >TAbort- <TAbort- <MAbort- >SERR- <PERR- INTx- 101 Latency: 32 (500ns min, 1000ns max), Cache Line Size: 32 bytes 102 Interrupt: pin B routed to IRQ 10 103 Region 0: Memory at ea004000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=2K] 104 Region 1: Memory at ea000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K] 105 Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2 106 Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA PME(D0+,D1+,D2+,D3hot+,D3cold-) 107 Status: D0 NoSoftRst- PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME+ 108 Kernel driver in use: firewire_ohci 109 Kernel modules: firewire_ohci
MattRocks, indeed, as I mentioned earlier, Windows 98 freezes before the firewire gets aded to the device tree. I had to rename the 1394.inf file such that it gets added to the device tree, and then disabled it. Without this, I can't get beyond the freeze at the start.
shevalier, regarding DSP, alsa-firmware is already installed which contains the firmware for it. I would argue that at this point in time, the modern Arch Linux 32 (i486) has far superior driver support compared to Windows 98SE or XP, given that everything has been maintained.
Regarding getting X11 working, the solution seems simple, it seems nvidiafb got loaded, I need to blacklist that module to get nouveau working.
Last edited by hydraphone on 2025-12-02, 16:46. Edited 1 time in total.