Originally posted by Schadenfreude Yes, I know Doom has ports.

But I want to run Doom non-ported.

...and then you want to start a fire just by rubbing your hands together, right? Seriously, are you crazy? I can't think of any reason to run the "original" DOOM in NT. Even the official Win9x version would be better.

He likes testing DOOM and Quake because source code available, and both have VESA2 support - LFB, etc.

Woof... I'm not even sure the original DOS Quake can be run in XP. It's autodetect for soundcards caused nasty lockups for me. I'm certain that can be disable, but I didn't bother as there was no real need for DOS Quake.

But before, he had trouble running DOOM.

Well, you know it will run fine if you select no sound or just speaker sound.

Can someone (Nicht?) provide instructions - DOOM with VDMSound,...

Well it has the same PopF problem that all the BUILD games have, so it must be hacked with Cli2Nop if you plan to use it with Win NT or 2000. That, of course, will make it more likely to crash, but it's unavoidable without using a port.

For XP, you just have to follow the same instructions as those for BUILD games in XP (as in the Problem Children thread). The sound will be terrible. IIRC, it was worse than the audio for BUILD games.

DOOM withough VDMSound (with XP sound),...

Ermm..you mean using both simultaneously?

...and, possible, DOOM port URL that is low-low tech, with source (like Windoom or something?)

*gah* You want to keep that horizontal "light-source" banding?

http://www.doomworld.com/ports/windows.shtml has just about every source-port/link under the sun. Just pick one.

The CWS extender in DOS Quake is incompatible with NT.

Nicht, WTF? Doom is NOT a Build-engine game! Duke Nukem 3D, Shadow Warrior, etc. are Build engine games. Ken whatshisname made the Build engine, and it was superior to the Doom engine (Doom, Heretic, Hexen, etc.). iD/Apogee used the Doom engine, while Epic/3D Realms used the Build engine. They're completely separate from each other.

HunterZ wrote:

Nicht, WTF? Doom is NOT a Build-engine game! Duke Nukem 3D, Shadow Warrior, etc. are Build engine games. Ken whatshisname made the Build engine, and it was superior to the Doom engine (Doom, Heretic, Hexen, etc.). iD/Apogee used the Doom engine, while Epic/3D Realms used the Build engine. They're completely separate from each other.

I don't see where you can that he implied that is was? Except mabye on the popf part? He's just saying that it's the same prob for both types of games.

DosFreak wrote:

The CWS extender in DOS Quake is incompatible with NT.

I wonder if you can strip the quake executable and teach it to use another extender, like Mok did with System Shock? Not that it is necessary...

I'm not sure if you just want to play doom, but you might want to check out JDoom. It's free (I don't remember the site. just go to google and search for jdoom) It's basically a prog. that uses your doom.wad and re-creates the game with OpenGL, and it works fine under NT/XP. BTW, the graphics are incredible.

Nicht Sehr Gut wrote:

...and then you want to start a fire just by rubbing your hands together, right? Seriously, are you crazy? I can't think of any reason to run the "original" DOOM in NT. Even the official Win9x version would be better.

It's a good game to use for debugging.

Then again, if you suggest a popular DOS game, stable in 2000/XP, with VESA2 modes and is open-source, that would be better.

Thanks you boys!

heh. Duke3D......

Originally posted by DosFreak The CWS extender in DOS Quake is incompatible with NT.

Ok, well it always locked up the moment it tried to detect the sound card so I just presumed that was it and never tested further. Saves me the bother of trying it again.

Originally posted by HunterZ Nicht, WTF? Doom is NOT a Build-engine game!

*ahem*

The exact statement is ...it has the same PopF problem that all the BUILD games have..., meaning it has the same problem as all the BUILD games have with audio on NT. Don't make me throw a spoon at you.

Originally posted by Schadenfreude I wonder if you can strip the quake executable and teach it to use another extender, like Mok did with System Shock?

Since the source is available, yes, you can do that. Having said that, I have yet to see anyone release a DOS source-port of Quake.

Originally posted by chris97b I'm not sure if you just want to play doom, but you might want to check out JDoom.

Thanks Chris, but we are aware of JDOOM and the other source ports. If you read my first post in this thread you'll see the link for the DoomWorld page which has just about all of them.

Originally posted by Schadenfreude Then again, if you suggest a popular DOS game, stable in 2000/XP, with VESA2 modes and is open-source, that would be better.

Well, DOOM (the original didn't have SVGA, but the Win95 version did...), Quake, Quake II, and as DosFreak mentioned, the source for Duke3D was just recently released.

If you want a real challenge, find someone to create a Windows SVGA port of "Rise of the Triad". Everyone seems to have lost interest in it since the Duke3D source was released.

The exact statement is ...it has the same PopF problem that all the BUILD games have..., meaning it has the same problem as all the BUILD games have with audio on NT. Don't make me throw a spoon at you.

😁 In Microsoft Word fashion, my ever-so-helpful brain slipped an "other" in between "the" and "BUILD". I wonder what the connection is? Do they use a similar sound engine? Or is it the DOS extender?

I love jDoom and Doom Legacy and some of the other Doom ports I've seen. They really are worth using unless there's some obscure reason for needing to use the original DOS versions.

Schadenfreude wrote:

I wonder if you can strip the quake executable and teach it to use another extender, like Mok did with System Shock? Not that it is necessary...

It turns out that it is open-source, too:
http://clio.rice.edu/cwsdpmi/

Or is it Causeway extender? Also open-source:
http://www.devoresoftware.com/freesource/cwsrc.htm

I'm not sure if the old quake.exe I have is official, but if it is then it was compiled with an old version of DJGPP (DOS port of gcc) and has CWSDPMI inside of it (I saw it with a hex editor). I'm pretty sure that CWSDPMI behaves well under NT, although maybe that old of a version didn't.

Or, maybe it's that DJGPP apps are smart enough not to use CWSDPMI when they aren't merged into the EXE and when the sapp detect that they are running in an environment that already has DPMI (and then it's breaking here because CWSDPMI is merged into the EXE instead of bebing standalone). That theory is going out on a limb a bit though... And of course it's all moot if you just get a newer port of the source 😜

Oh, btw: CWSDPMI does little more than provide DPMI services to DJGPP apps. Since Windows has provided DPMI to DOS apps since Win95, DJGPP programs are usually more than happy to use Windows' DPMI support in place of CWSDPMI's. However, as I said, I don't know how it behaves whenn CWSDPMI is merged into the app EXE instead of being in its own CWSDPMI.EXE.

HunterZ wrote:

I wonder what the connection is? Do they use a similar sound engine? Or is it the DOS extender?

They both use the assembly CLI command, which kills WinNT/2K's VDM.

Originally posted by Snover They both use the assembly CLI command, which kills WinNT/2K's VDM.

And they have other friends as well...Worms, Flight of the Amazon Queen, Death Rally, and that poor step-child of DOOM: STRIFE.