VOGONS


Reply 20 of 35, by alvaro84

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And I have a different model, Soyo SY-P4I845PEISA. It has 3 ISA slots too, with the IT8712F-A bridge and SB and GUS worked perfectly in it. The chipset is the same i845 and it only supports single channel DDR. This is still an extra for a DOS capable board, I don't have anything else past SDRAM. My HP KC19+ (which is an i820 slot1/RDRAM board) has problems wigh GUS DMA though it seemed to like SB16.

Oh the Soyo has conventional Evercon electrolytic caps.

Shame on us, doomed from the start
May God have mercy on our dirty little hearts

Reply 21 of 35, by mothergoose729

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This is really cool. I haven't seen a socket 478 board with more than a single ISA slot, and they usually go for hundreds of dollars on ebay. 120$ isn't too bad... a little less than you would pay for a good slot 1 board with a slotkey tualatin.

I have an 865PE chipsets, and of course no ISA. It does let me assign an IRQ preference for the PCI slots though, and I might get lucky with the DMA. Nothing beats ISA for DOS thought. Good find 😀

Reply 22 of 35, by sajmon1100

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maybe try to rip bios from soyo and upload to portwell? In bios portwell, I have the irq assignment options for the isa port, but there is no dma allocation option .i can`t find new bios for this mb portwell.This same mobo has another name . It`s Diebold MBATX-845E-G2B

Reply 23 of 35, by johnnynismo

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After 4 years, I'm just now coming back to this system. I've built up quite a collection of other hardware I've been playing with in the interim. Since y'all have some interest again, I'll work with this system a little more. Right now I only have WinXP installed. I need to try 98, DOS, and an ISA sound card. I'll finally be using this for its original intended use (I'm embarrassed to say I haven't tried even an ISA sound card yet).

Reply 24 of 35, by sajmon1100

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and ?:)

Reply 25 of 35, by sajmon1100

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and no answer ehh 😒

Reply 26 of 35, by cyclone3d

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An ISA sound card will work just fine in that motherboard. See the ITE bridge chip. The motherboard chipset supports what is needed for ISA DMA and the bridge chip enables it.

I've got an ATX board somewhat like this and I also have 1 rackmount industrial SBC setup put together with parts for 2 more setups. All have AGP, PCI and ISA and are socket 478 Pentium 4.

I'm still waiting to find the LGA 775 SBC for this type of setup but I have never even seen a picture of one other than from the mfg and resellers who used to sell them.

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Reply 27 of 35, by themajortechie

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johnnynismo wrote on 2019-07-27, 22:17:

After 4 years, I'm just now coming back to this system. I've built up quite a collection of other hardware I've been playing with in the interim. Since y'all have some interest again, I'll work with this system a little more. Right now I only have WinXP installed. I need to try 98, DOS, and an ISA sound card. I'll finally be using this for its original intended use (I'm embarrassed to say I haven't tried even an ISA sound card yet).

Apologies for necro-ing, but did you ever do any of the testing you said you'd do?

Reply 28 of 35, by Sphere478

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I think Tonkus recently came across a isa socket 775 mobo. Lemme tag him and see if he can share.

Edit:

https://www.attro.com/motherboard/MB865.htm

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32905360011.html

Last edited by Sphere478 on 2022-05-01, 04:22. Edited 1 time in total.

Sphere's PCB projects.
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Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
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SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
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Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 29 of 35, by themajortechie

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Sphere478 wrote on 2022-05-01, 04:17:

I think Tonkus recently came across a isa socket 775 mobo. Lemme tag him and see if he can share.

No, the board I got is a 478 board. For now the 775 is either unobtanium or far too expensive for me to afford. 😜

Reply 31 of 35, by themajortechie

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yup lmao

there's a reason why i'm not getting that board. yet.

Reply 32 of 35, by hpxca

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Sorry to necro this thread, but I got a hold of one of these for $50 locally. I re-capped it replacing all the Chemi-Con KZGs with comparable polymer caps (they're almost all 1000uF/6.3V except 3x 470uF/16V on the 12V rails). The board would work well as a windows XP board, but for DOS it's not really any good. Like @sajmon1100 noted earlier in this thread I tried ISA sound cards in pure DOS with this board and DMA simply doesn't work. The PnP card is detected and the BIOS system summary screen even lists the IRQ and DMA channels for the PnP card. When you try the card in any game though OPL music plays but there's no digital sound with any of the ISA cards I tried (AWE64, Vibra16) - all known working cards. The Creative diagnose program indicates that no low DMA channels are available/functional. In the CMOS setup there doesn't appear to be anything configurable with respect to DMA either. I tried every possible low DMA channel and moved it around reserving different IRQs etc. In all cases the ISA sound cards behave the same.

I didn't see this board on the retroweb so I took a few photos (prior to recapping it) and dumped the BIOS and sent that over to the retroweb guys to add to the website. I couldn't find any other BIOS versions for this board anywhere.

PS - I'm not sure how the Chemi-Con KZGs got a bad rep, I replaced them just for the benefit of the boards longevity (though it wasn't cheap), but I tested every one of the KZGs I removed with my LCR meter at 1KHz and they all tested within spec both on capacitance and ESR.

Edit: I've tried KYA's VDMA8 (DDMA) on this board with the ITE8888F without success. More details in this thread (AWE32 and PicoGUS on a Core2Duo industrial motherboard). The board and ICH4 registers seem all setup for PC/PCI DMA (PPDMA) but it doesn't work despite a trying a number of things so far to get it going.

Reply 33 of 35, by hpxca

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Hi All!

TLDR
I was able to get DMA and ISA sound cards working on this motherboard. Version 3.3 of this motherboard has a design defect where the PPDREQ# and PPDGNT# lines from the ITE8888-F to the ICH4 south bridge are swapped. Fixing this is possible, but not trivial. It involves cutting the traces involved and swapping the signals somewhere on the board. If you have one of these and you want to try it, of course you do so at your own risk. I don't know that versions other then 3.3 have this issue (or even exist). Don't do this if you're having any other problems (like PCI card sound problems) - this won't help with that.

The Symptom
ISA sound cards in this board play music only, but there is no "digital audio". Most utilities or games won't complain about it unless they actually test DMA. An example of such a utility is the creative diagnose.exe program which, when run will have no issues setting the base at, MIDI, and IRQ at standard locations. When the DMA test is run, it'll return that all DMA lines seem used and you can't get past the test. Note that the BIOS reserves DMA 3 for the parallel port and it seems to do this even if the port isn't set to EPP mode. It could reserve a different DMA for the parallel port if you select a different one in the CMOS setup. I didn't check, but I strongly suspect it would release this if you disable the parallel port completely.

The Problem
The ICH4 supports a total of 6 PCI bus masters for "external" PCI devices on the bus. There are 4 dedicated Request/Grant (REQ/GNT) pairs for this REQ(0:4) and GNT(0:4), one dedicated pair for PC/PCI DMA (PPDMA) REQ(A)/GNT(A) and one multiplexed pair which can be used for either function REQ(5/B) and GNT(5/B). The pins for REQ(A)/GNT(A) and REQ(B)/GNT(B) are triple-duty and can also be used as GPIO, but this board doesn't use them for that.

Because this board has 2 on-board 1GE ethernet interfaces and 4 PCI slots, all the available REQ/GNT pairs 0-5 are used and REQ(B)/GNT(B) is unavailable for PPDMA. The ITE8888F is using REQ(A)/GNT(A) and due to the lack of available pairs on the ICH4 its IGNT# pin is pulled high with a 4.7k pull-up and IREQ# pin is unconnected. This means that the ITE8888F can not act as a PCI BUS master and any attempt to use distributed DMA (DDMA) on this board won't work (without modification). You can get more information in that in the linked thread. Thanks so much to the O/P KYA for helping me work through some of this! AWE32 and PicoGUS on a Core2Duo industrial motherboard

The Diagnosis
In the thread linked, a great deal of time was spent vetting the BIOS' work setting the registers in the ICH4 and the ITE8888F only to find no issues with how the BIOS was configuring things. After being frustrated with this and worried I missed something I finally bit the bullet and decided I'd attempt to trace out the two signals critical to PPDMA from the ITE8888 to the ICH4. To see the traces clearly, I had to remove one electrolytic cap, the battery holder, a ceramic cap and a resistor network near the bridge. Even then, since the ICH4 was a BGA part and I wasn't about to pull it off and attempt to put it back on there was still the risk that if a trace went under it on the top layer I may not be able to see where it went. At this point I was 99.9% sure the PPDMA REQ/GNT pair had to be using REQ(A) and GNT(A) of the ICH4 because nothing else made sense hardware-wise and the GEN_CNTL register in the ICH4 was configured to make REQ(B)/GNT(B) be used as REQ(5)/GNT(5).

If you check for continuity and you get continuity as per the image below - the signals are swapped. Pin numbers are in reference to the signals pin on the ITE8888F.

file.php?mode=view&id=236449

While it's unclear from the image exactly where on the ICH4 PPGNT# ends up, we can determine with certainty on the back, that PPREQ# ends at the ball for GNT(A), and based on the relative location where the trace goes under the ICH4, the fact that REQ(A) is ball B5 near the outside of the chip and the fact the bottom photo confirms GNT(A) is connected it's a pretty safe bet that PPGNT# is ending at REQ(A). Could it be going to REQ(B) at ball A6? Yes, it could be, but had they done that at least one of the PCI Slots or one of the NICs wouldn't have worked as a bus master. Now their quality control here is questionable, but that would be harder to overlook then just DMA not working on the ISA slots.

file.php?mode=view&id=236450
file.php?mode=view&id=236451

The Fix
In theory of course the fix is easy - just swap the signals. In practice, maybe not so easy because it means you need to cut the traces to break the original signals and solder a jumper to swap them. Since I spent several hours tracing them both I had the opportunity to find where on the board I thought would be the easiest place to swap them. That particular spot is on the back of the board under where the battery holder is. Here the two signals run parallel to each other through two via's from the top, down to the bottom for a short time, then back to the top toward the ICH4. If you fix this yourself you may find and easier spot to use, this is just what I did. At any rate, mind the length of the wires since if my DDMA experiment from the other thread proved anything it showed that having two really long bodge wires of radically different lengths routing these signals from one side of the board to the other could cause bus timing problems....

file.php?mode=view&id=236452

And finally, the traces swapped. And yes yes I know I'm not perfect and I did clean up where I slipped there cutting the traces and I put some more solder mask in places where I exposed the copper and all that jazz..

file.php?mode=view&id=236455

If you do it this way ensure your bodge wires aren't shorted to each other and that the traces were cut cleanly. re-check continuity back on the resistor networks to ensure the signals were swapped and you should be done (in much less time then it took me to figure this out).

PPDMA on the PCI-to-ISA bridge should work now, and you should get sound from your ISA sound card. Good luck and I hope this helps someone with this board, or saves someone some money in not buying a board with a design defect!

Reply 34 of 35, by RayeR

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I wonder a bit that when they put some effort to integrating the IT8888 on board they didn't take care to wire it properly. It seems they would need to put just a little bit effort to wire it properly resulting a high gain to bring the working ISA DMA. Probably industrial customers didn't use many ISA cards that use DMA so they didn't care and there was no pressure on MB manufacturers, maybe even no feedback, that something was done wrong way. Maybe ITE should release some appnote how to integrate theirs bridge to intel chipset system so MB designers would do it properly. But we don't live in an ideal world, a lot of things is left on customers without proper support, so hail to those who investigate and fix others bugs by themselves and sharing it with others.

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Reply 35 of 35, by DLL hell

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I wonder why is not a full solid capacitor motherboard? In 2025