That's peak Intel 386 that is, don't need changing in my book. Sure an AMD DX40 is slightly faster, but they were a budget box by the time that made it out the door. VGA Wonder 16 is pretty good for it's time, some will say you could go faster, but that's dragging it out of 1990 into 1991 or 1992, where it's not king of the world any more. 8MB is plenty for that era too.

The Dallas chip could use swapping out for a fresher one, or a replacement with battery holder.

Alright, very cool! 386 machines are a lot of fun to play with. They're the first 32 bit PCs, so they're a little slow for later 32 bit games or Windows 95, but they are absolute speed demons for 16 bit programs, and do well with Windows 3.1.

They're the fastest class of machine that have only a 16 bit ISA bus by definition. 486 systems on the other hand can (and therefore, from a system builder's perspective, you might say "should", otherwise why the 486?) have a VLB bus, which means much faster graphics... but a 386 can max out a fast ISA graphics card and you can have a lot of fun that way.

I have a video on YouTube in which I built a 386 machine a few years ago, and there is some info in there about the issues I encountered while building it. You may find it useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0zZlfXppV0

From what I can see, you have really scored big time with this machine.

Here are your specs from what I can see in the images:

-DTK PEM-3301 Cache 386 motherboard - good that it supports cache. That will help a 386 along nicely. Here is the manual for your motherboard: https://theretroweb.com/motherboard/manual/pe … 31662660119.pdf
-Installed cache: Not sure, I can't find info on those chips. But I'm guessing it's 64KB.
-Intel 386DX-33 (the fastest Intel 386, and an excellent choice for a fast machine. AMD 386DX-40 is the absolute fastest 386, and a lot of people choose those, but I like the 386-33 because I'm an Intel snob)
-387 math coprocessor (not a lot of 2D games use this, but it's neat to round out the complement by filling that copro socket)
-8MB RAM (in those SIMM sockets)
-1988 Datatech 386 BIOS (I don't know much about this BIOS, but that's fairly early for a 386-33. Would have been a very high end machine at the time.)
-ATI VGA Wonder 16 - a neat graphics card, but unfortunately among the slowest 16 bit ISA video cards for DOS. I like the WD90Cxx series, like the WD90C11, WD90C30, and WD90C31 for excellent speed and compatibility. The Cirrus Logic 542x series is also very good. Both of these will match the more commonly recommended ET4000 for speed but will not have the compatibility issues the ET4000 is plagued with.
-Seagate ST3144A hard drive. Check out the specs here: https://theretroweb.com/harddrives/68 - 131 MB is an alright capacity for a 386, but you may find yourself wanting more. Max capacity for this machine is likely 504MB. You can use a hard drive or a low capacity Compact Flash card as they are IDE compatible.
-Some kind of floppy+IDE combo controller

Overall a very nice machine.

Yes, that Dallas DS1287 chip is indeed your "CMOS battery" - it is the real time clock chip, and has the battery inside of it. These chips are the bane of every vintage PC enthusiast, because the battery dies inside of them and you can't replace it.

Your options are:
-Replace the entire chip with a new DS1287 or compatible
-Replace the entire chip with one of these nifty things, which has a normal coin battery socket: https://www.ebay.com/itm/134217827379

Let's see what you have on hand in terms of Sound Blaster cards! An SB Pro 2.0 or SB16 would fit this machine nicely.

MS-DOS 5.0 is an excellent choice of operating system. Because it's a 386, you can ditch the bulky HIMEM+EMM386 memory management software DOS comes with, and use JEMMEX instead - you'll get ~700K free RAM this way.

I would love to see pictures of the outside of it. I'm pretty sure id Software used DTK 386-33s when they built Commander Keen - they appear in early photos of John Carmack at work. You may have a very similar, or perhaps identical, machine.

Incidentally, a 386-33 is the perfect machine to play Commander Keen games on. I recommend perusing the KeenWiki and checking the "Mods" section to find new Keen games to play - the community has done an incredible job creating new games using the old engine. One of the best recent projects is called "Foray in the Forest".

I wish you luck in your endeavors! This is a fun project to embark upon.

Honthro wrote on Yesterday, 02:46:

Hi everyone 👋

I recently picked up this DTK 386 system from Facebook Marketplace (messaged a lady selling a mirror about the beige box in the reflection!). I grew up on PCs in the late 90s and still have a retro Pentium III 450 100 MHz that I tinker with, but 386 territory is a bit before my time (was 5 in 1991) so hoping some folks on here can help guide me through reviving this beast.

Hi there!

Now, THAT is what I call entrepreneurship, seeing an ad for a mirror, spotting a cool computer and taking action! Kudos!

This 386 looks pristine! It is an insanely good find.

I am also a snob for the 33MHz Intel chips. I have one on an Asus 386 board, also with 8MB RAM, although no FPU.

I would leave the system as is (meaning not remove anything, even the modem) and just add an SB16 as well as an NE2000 or a 3c509.

If the disk gives trouble, I would swap it out for another small IDE disk.

64K cache is plenty for a 386, would not bother it at all.

What a great find! (if possible, please post a picture of the "beige box" too). If you can forget about FPS-games for a little while, this machine is the perfect way to explore the early to mid DOS era. Graphic Adventures, Puzzle games, Platformers, SIMs, RPG's ... so much great stuff... It even has a CO-PROCESSOR installed !!! So you could get into mindbending mathematical calculations and CAD design (or simply play the original Sim City which will make use of it). As others mentioned, a soundblaster is a a must though...

It's a fine system as is. I agree with what the others said.
Add a soundcard and maybe exchange the ATI VGA Wonder 16 to something else (since it's a bit slow, ex ATI VGA Wonder user here).
Like an Paradise VGA or an Western Digital WD90C00 or later model.
Since the system has shadow memory, loading a RAM BIOS utility to speed up VGA BIOS maybe isn't needed.
Loading a VESA VBE 1.2 TSR or using an older UniVESA/UniVBE utility might be a nice addition for picture viewers etc.
As an extra, an early CD-ROM drive isn't wrong, either. Mitsumi Lu005s or an vintage SCSI model.
The early PAS16 had an SCSI controller, for example. But some SB16 models had one, too.
In principle, every CD interface is fine. Except IDE/ATAPI, I would say.
The technology was still immature in the days of 386/486 PCs and ISA IDE host adapters.

It's a really good 386, but set your expectations right. You can't play DOOM in this PC (unless potato mode in fastdoom). Wolf3d , pinball dreams, pinball fantasies, stunts, point and click adventures yes.

keenmaster486 wrote on Yesterday, 03:46:

-Replace the entire chip with one of these nifty things, which has a normal coin battery socket: https://www.ebay.com/itm/134217827379

I second this. I use these DS1287 replacements in all my 386 and 486 systems that need them. Very handy.

id recommend running xtide in some form to improve storage handling. I usually run it off a eeprom on a network nic, but there are other standalone isa card methods.
Ive used glitchworks and cf lite.
mt32 is also useful in this era so i try to run a mt32-pi in wavetable form. Paired with the picogus 2 it provides hw intelligent mode, otherwise softmpu is needed.

This looks like a very lovely system. 386 DX-33 is an ideal performance range for early 90s games, especially early VGA adventure and strategy titles.

As others have mentioned, you could replace the graphics card with something a bit faster, though that may not be entirely necessary depending on what you are playing.

You'll definitely want to add a sound card or two. A Sound Blaster Pro or compatible equivalent would be period correct for a 386. And something can do MIDI might be worth it if you're interested in going down that route.

I'd also go with a compact flash card + adapter for storage (256 - 512 MB would be ideal for this era).

keenmaster486 wrote on Yesterday, 03:46:

Alright, very cool! 386 machines are a lot of fun to play with. They're the .....

Thanks so much for all this info! This community is truly amazing. Now I'm armed with manuals and knowledge!

H3nrik V! wrote on Yesterday, 06:59:

Now, THAT is what I call entrepreneurship, seeing an ad for a mirror, spotting a cool computer and taking action! Kudos!

She let me take it for 35 CAD along with a keyboard and some floppy disks! She tried to give me a dot matrix printer but I just had no space for one - I know someone on here will hate me for it 😖

st31276a wrote on Yesterday, 07:23:

This 386 looks pristine! It is an insanely good find. I am also a snob for the 33MHz Intel chips.

I'm glad there are fans of this one - at first I was turned off by all the recommendations for the AMD 386DX-40 I kept seeing when I first started looking into 386 builds. Don't think I'll change this one.

Aui wrote on Yesterday, 09:09:

What a great find! (if possible, please post a picture of the "beige box" too). If you can forget about FPS-games for a little while, this machine is the perfect way to explore the early to mid DOS era...

That's the goal! I have enough FPS on my other rig, so this will be exploring games before my time, specifically the lucas arts and point and clicks. I've been using eXoDOS to explore the library but I'm kind of after the authentic experience.

Jo22 wrote on Yesterday, 12:24:

Add a soundcard and maybe exchange the ATI VGA Wonder 16 to something else (since it's a bit slow, ex ATI VGA Wonder user here)...

Thanks for the reco - I'll test things as they are with the Wonder and then start exploring my options on ebay. Hopefully the prices aren't outrageous like my experience with anything Voodoo.

Pickle wrote on Yesterday, 14:42:

id recommend running xtide in some form to improve storage handling. I usually run it off a eeprom on a network nic, but there are other standalone isa card methods.
Ive used glitchworks and cf lite.
mt32 is also useful in this era so i try to run a mt32-pi in wavetable form. Paired with the picogus 2 it provides hw intelligent mode, otherwise softmpu is needed.

Not sure I understood all the terms, but will try my best to decipher, thanks! I'll wait until I'm able to boot up and run a couple of games - still have to get used to using DOS (windows 95 baby here).

Shponglefan wrote on Yesterday, 14:43:

I'd also go with a compact flash card + adapter for storage (256 - 512 MB would be ideal for this era).

Is there a community favourite or a recommendation you can give for the flash card and adapter? Is this something I can hot-swap to side load files off my main pc?

Thanks for the warm welcome!

The case itself is very large, 21 inches tall and 19 inches wide:

Is the Keen reference accidental here or is there any relation to the id's work?

I think I understand why it has the beefy coprocessor - see the software I got with it:

This is my setup for now - note the MS-DOS 5 box which I'm excited to open and install:

Finally some soundcards I have acquired over the past:

Before I install anything new, I want to get the current setup up and running. Does the Dallas need to be replaced first before anything else will work, or can I work around it until the part comes in (just wont save my clock/settings)? What do I need to address "Display card mismatch" or "system memory mismatch" ?

yeah your going to have mismatch until the clock battery in the dallas chip is replaced.
theres a number of ways to handle it.
1. replace the whole dallas clock, helps if its in a socket to start otherwise needs to be desoldered.
It can be replaced with a new dallas chip or a custom pcb with a coin cell battery.
2. dremel out the sides of the dallas chip to reach the battery terminals and solder a coin cell holder to the lines.
3. Heat the dallas realtime and chip away epoxy to get to terminals.

Personally i ordered the pcb and parts. Either of these would work.
https://github.com/necroware/nwX287
https://github.com/scrapcomputing/nwX287.cr2032.ssop.mot

Honthro wrote on Today, 03:53:

Is there a community favourite or a recommendation you can give for the flash card and adapter? Is this something I can hot-swap to side load files off my main pc?

anything like https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07LBLXDZM?ref_=ppx … ed_asin_title_1
you can plug this straight into the ide card.
there are other options to mount to a slot and use a 40 pin cable. Really depends on what you want.
there are also sd card variants as well.
and yes you can connect it to a modern pc and copy files to it.

I'm glad there are fans of this one - at first I was turned off by all the recommendations for the AMD 386DX-40 I kept seeing when I first started looking into 386 builds. Don't think I'll change this one.

The 386DX-40 was/is indeed a sweet little fellow.
But not exactly for processing power as someone might think.
It rather was because of the platform as a whole.

By mid-90s, the 386 motherboards were highly integrated and compact, with little downsides. Like those square BabyAT boards.
They were stable, ran cool and were very traditional AT (plain ISA, normal AT BIOS, 5v CPUs and no 3.3v anywhere).

Users who opted for a 386DX-40 over a 486DX-25 had more money left to invest into other things, such as more RAM or an CD-ROM drive.

The 40 MHz bus speed of CPU+mainboard also helped to increase memory throughput and reduce bottle necks.
That was good for things like servers or multi-tasking, where lots of memory gets shuffled around.

But otherwise, it wasn't that much different to a 33 MHz system.
Things that were CPU intensive were not running much different because of the few MHz more or less.
Other factors such as cache or wait states or access time of RAM made more of a difference.

Your 386 has a 33 MHz math-co which is great for productivity software or rendering.
Fractal generators, AutoSketch/AutoCAD, Autodesk 3D Studio Release 4 etc.
They really like using that i387 chip.

That's why I wouldn't recommend to install a 386DX-40 here.
The RAM, cache and that 387 are chosen to fit in a 33 MHz configuration.

If you're eventually unhappy with the performance, you still have the option to install a Cyrix/Ti 486DLC-33 or 486DLC-40 chip in the future.
Both are pin-compatible with a 386DX and can run at 33 MHz no problem, so no further change on motherboard is required.
By using a cache enabling utility on DOS, they will offer an 1 KB cache that speeds things up.
Some 386 bugs are fixed, too. Software will see a 486.

But again, it's just an option, not a requirement. The 33 MHz CPU is fine as is.
The 25 and 33 MHz 386 PCs were from the heyday of the 386 era.
They're great for reliving those days and have no compatibility issues with 386 software from back then.
Things like Xenix 386 or AutoCAD 386 or OS/2 will exactly get what they expect to see
(the undocumented opcodes and reserved registers are that of a real 386, after all).

Honthro wrote on Today, 03:53:

Jo22 wrote on Yesterday, 12:24:

Add a soundcard and maybe exchange the ATI VGA Wonder 16 to something else (since it's a bit slow, ex ATI VGA Wonder user here)...

Thanks for the reco - I'll test things as they are with the Wonder and then start exploring my options on ebay. Hopefully the prices aren't outrageous like my experience with anything Voodoo.

Hi! Someone can't ever have enough ISA VGA cards for testing! 😁
The ATI VGA Wonder 16 is okay if it suits your needs.
It even can help to limit speed for games that might run too fast, maybe.
If you have favorite titles, you may like to check their support for Super VGA.

The Tseng ET-4000 was supported by graphic/text adventure games from Legend Entertainment, for example.
So you can use 800x600 resolution in those games when you have an ET-4000AX.
Other games may have special support other VGA cards..
The ET-4000 was very popular but isn't fully VGA compatible in some ways.
Games like Commander Keen 4 will stutter a bit with it.

So it really depends on your preferences. Take your time, please.
There are many options to choose from and most are fine. ^^

Wow, it's a tower! I must say I didn't expect that.

Honthro wrote on Today, 04:04:

Is the Keen reference accidental here or is there any relation to the id's work?

Now... this is very interesting.

No, it's not a reference to id's work. But now that I know DTK used the branding "Keen" on their 386 machines from that era, and knowing that id used DTK machines to develop Commander Keen... I can't help but wonder whether Tom Hall, when he was thinking up a name for the character, didn't glance over at someone's computer badge and think "that sounds good".

As for a video card, you can expect to pay about $70 on eBay for a good one at the low end.

However, you could try to win the bid on this one if you want to pay much less: https://www.ebay.com/itm/168162197670
Otherwise, any of the following would work fine:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/234889037583
https://www.ebay.com/itm/325595751916
https://www.ebay.com/itm/389445012943
https://www.ebay.com/itm/116958560100

It looks like prices for the Western Digital cards aren't that great right now.

For the Sound Blaster, I would suggest using the SB16. It's one of the CD models, and has the IDE version of the interface, so you could definitely hook up a standard IDE CD drive to the card!

As for the hard drive, I would suggest trying the original hard drive first (because they're cooler), and then go to Compact Flash if it's faulty. You can just get a cheap Verbatim 2GB card if nothing else and configure it as a 504MB "drive" in the BIOS.

You will have to address the Dallas chip before you do anything else, as the BIOS will complain about "mismatches" every time you boot otherwise.

keenmaster486 wrote on Today, 17:39:

As for a video card, you can expect to pay about $70 on eBay for a good one at the low end.

How about this I found local?