gerry wrote on 2026-03-30, 12:47:

Changing car dynamics through an app scheduling washing machine via app streaming movie order online […]
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Changing car dynamics through an app
scheduling washing machine via app
streaming movie
order online

I don't do 1 and 2, but I certainly do 3 and 4. Everyone does these days - simply because there is much more content you can stream / buy online than in your local DVD collection / store.

dr_st wrote on 2026-03-30, 16:23:

I certainly do 3 and 4. Everyone does these days

Actually, I hardly ever watch/listen to anything via streaming - normally, I *download* stuff, and watch it offline.
It's often pretty amusing - they want me to click "subscribe", some bells, or other such stuff - but I don't even know what's going on, as all I have on my screen is the Terminal with MPlayer process 🤣

Online shopping - sure, I often do.
But if I can find the stuff I'm looking for somewhere nearby, I always buy it offline - and always use cash!

Grzyb wrote on 2026-03-30, 17:30:

Actually, I hardly ever watch/listen to anything via streaming - normally, I *download* stuff, and watch it offline.

So, where does download sit? Is it more 'direct'? Or more 'networked'? Somewhere in between I feel.
Protocols like ED2K and BitTorrent actually support a hybrid - wherein you can start streaming the video before the full file is downloaded.

I do both. In recent years I found that streaming services sometimes offer me better quality / availability / subtitles and overall experience, but not always.

Grzyb wrote on 2026-03-30, 17:30:

But if I can find the stuff I'm looking for somewhere nearby, I always buy it offline - and always use cash!

I like to support local businesses when I can, but even there - the online buying experience often saves me a lot of time and hassle. I order a good chunk of my groceries online too. Even if it comes from a store I could go to in person.

I'm a big believer in "direct access"... (sorry, bit of a rant follows)

When it comes to "improved" internet controlled devices, remember:

1. Murphys law: "Anything that can go wrong WILL go wrong"!
2. Sturgons rule: "90% of everything is crud"

So if you choose to "go connected", prepare for a lifetime of trying to figure out "what's going wrong". (see 1.)

and .. although companies often do their best to make "everyting simple", it's almost always pretty far from it ... take connecting to a device on your home from outside. (and what "connected devices" can't be controller remotely)

Unless you know all about setting static IPs and holes though your routers firewall, you CAN'T connect to anything un your home directly... You can't even contact you home directly, because unless you want to setup (and pay for) a DNS entry, or a static IP - you have no way of knowing where your home even is on the internet (almost all public IPs are dynamic which means they often change)

And companies want to sell... but requiring the buyer to know and be willing to set these things up (very few would), they "fake it" by having a server that the devices in your home maintain a connection to, and remote user can connect to that server and it will make a connection.

Which has 3 major problems:

1. In general most people won't bother to properly disconnect devices from servers when turn them off
--- and inet connections would quickly all get "used" by inactive things ---
so... there is a timeout: If your connection doesn't send/receive traffic for a certain amount of time, the connection is dropped.

Not great if a "connected device" is waiting for messages from a server to setup a connection... enter the "keep alive" message. Devices that are idle but active maintain a bit of traffic to the other end which prevents it from timing out (till it gets turned OFF and stops "keeping alive"). So ... "connected" devices will all generate a steady amount of "background traffic" - this is quite small if you have 1-2 devices, but can build up if you have 10-100+ (think of how many "smart" devices are in many homes).

2. It uses a companies server - which costs to run and maintain. So when that device is no longer selling enough, server "cost is reduced" (ie: discontinued).

3. Companies want to "sell new stuff", ie: have you replace older stuff you already bought from them. In the past this was via "planned obsolesce" - things where made to "wear out". You could shorten this time by using it "rough" and lengthen it by taking care of it.

Now... with "connected" things, many companies have switched to "forced obsolesce". When the served decides the ID sent by your device is "too old", it can refuce to serve it, effectively "wearing it out". Doesn't matter how well you've cared for it... the device "end of life" is controlled by the manufactured.

dr_st wrote on 2026-03-30, 18:30:

So, where does download sit? Is it more 'direct'? Or more 'networked'? Somewhere in between I feel.

Once the download is complete, it's definitely direct - I don't need any network to watch it!

Protocols like ED2K and BitTorrent actually support a hybrid - wherein you can start streaming the video before the full file is downloaded.

Sure, but in the end, you have the complete file on your local disk.
Something that streaming services like YT don't want you to have - they try their best to keep the content under their exclusive control.

Not disagreeing with you. 😀

With that said, when I just want to watch a specific movie, or episode in a show that I haven't already downloaded, I find that streaming services (perhaps of the more shady kind) are frequently the first place I go, simply for convenience. With how available these things have become, I care less about having a copy of the file than I used to.

gerry wrote on 2026-03-30, 12:47:

“Networked Interaction”

Changing car dynamics through an app

I'm wondering about this case...

How exactly do such apps communicate with the car?
I would expect some near-field communication, like Bluetooth - so it still works inside a garage made of sheet-metal, without access to external wireless networks.
It's not done via some central server, where both the app and the car need to be logged in, I hope?

Grzyb wrote on 2026-03-30, 22:09:

... How exactly do such apps communicate with the car? ...

When we bought our last car it has a "feature" where you can remote-start it.
This was enabled on a "try it" basis for a few months, and it did work without having to be near the car. You have to buy a subscription to keep using it (which we didn't), I think it was over a cell network somehow, I never really looked into exactly how it communicated.

It has lots of other features where it talks bluetooth to your phone, and I think even some that can connect WiFi to your network (like updating - works in your garage but nowhere else)

DaveDDS wrote on 2026-03-30, 20:58:

3. Companies want to "sell new stuff", ie: have you replace older stuff you already bought from them. In the past this was via "planned obsolesce" - things where made to "wear out". You could shorten this time by using it "rough" and lengthen it by taking care of it.

Now... with "connected" things, many companies have switched to "forced obsolesce". When the served decides the ID sent by your device is "too old", it can refuce to serve it, effectively "wearing it out". Doesn't matter how well you've cared for it... the device "end of life" is controlled by the manufactured.

agreed on points but this in particular is the difference between owning and renting, it's the netflix model - you get lots of "stuff" to use and see, but all under complete control of the provider

Not only that but everything you do is generating data for someone else

dr_st wrote on 2026-03-30, 18:30:

So, where does download sit? Is it more 'direct'? Or more 'networked'? Somewhere in between I feel.
Protocols like ED2K and BitTorrent actually support a hybrid - wherein you can start streaming the video before the full file is downloaded.

I do both. In recent years I found that streaming services sometimes offer me better quality / availability / subtitles and overall experience, but not always.

You're right streaming can be better quality in some ways and the argument "how many times will you actually want to watch this" is a good one, i'd bet most vhs/dvds are seen once only. However to answer above, i think a download is offline- it's online if someone knows you're watching or you need to be online in order to watch it.

dr_st wrote on 2026-03-30, 21:57:

With how available these things have become, I care less about having a copy of the file than I used to.

i can see that too, and often if something isn't online, or a streaming service no longer offers it I actually don't care. To me its the reliance on the provider, the fact that you have to be online, that its tracked and worse that it might be edited without you knowing and change over time (while a dvd is a "permanent" edit)

Grzyb wrote on 2026-03-30, 22:09:

How exactly do such apps communicate with the car?
I would expect some near-field communication, like Bluetooth - so it still works inside a garage made of sheet-metal, without access to external wireless networks.
It's not done via some central server, where both the app and the car need to be logged in, I hope?

it is by central server... this is similar to the tech that allows "features" to be controlled by manufacturer, i.e. you buy a car with 10 features but 3 are switched off, you can subscribe to them for money though... Performance parameters in cars, esp EVs, can also be managed by an App that essentially goes via a hub. sounds awful? yes i agree! There are, apparently, also some tuning apps that function through a local kind of "api", accessed with Bluetooth or similar, for now.

Cars really aren't cars anymore, i'd be surprised if there were any new cars being built soon that are even capable of being really "owned" as such, they'll all end up with various network dependencies to function

Indeed this whole topic is a kind of "rent v own" topic as well, as anything requiring networked interaction is by definition reliant upon the provider of the network (and all that comes with it)

gerry wrote on 2026-03-31, 12:09:

... this in particular is the difference between owning and renting ...

Yep... but Renting has a clear end of lease/renew date. The server upon seeing how long it's been since you gave money, can be more subtle than just dropping service. It can (and companies do this), just provide less service, some "features" may stop working entirely, or become slower/less reliable -- and these effects don't even have to be "from now on"... your device can just become more and more of a problem as time goes by.

Companies don't want you to see they are "grabbing money" by forcing obsolete - that might cause loyal customers to mistrust them ... instead they want you to "think" your device is wearing out and you should get a new one (Apple was found to be doing exactly this a few years back)

gerry wrote on 2026-03-31, 12:22:

Cars really aren't cars anymore, i'd be surprised if there were any new cars being built soon that are even capable of being really "owned" as such, they'll all end up with various network dependencies to function

True - it keeps getting worse and worse.

Not only there's SPYWARE built into cars themselves, but also - in case of EVs - one can't get far without reporting to the bank, I don't know about any charging station where it's possible to pay with cash!
No matter if it's total blackout, or just payment system failure, or network outage - you're grounded anyway!

There are still brand new cars free of all that idiocy - see eg. Toyota J70 series, with the super-durable 1HZ engine.
Unfortunately, unavailable in the EU idiocracy, and I think unavailable in the USA either...

DaveDDS wrote on 2026-03-31, 17:27:

Yep... but Renting has a clear end of lease/renew date. The server upon seeing how long it's been since you gave money, can be more subtle than just dropping service. It can (and companies do this), just provide less service, some "features" may stop working entirely, or become slower/less reliable -- and these effects don't even have to be "from now on"... your device can just become more and more of a problem as time goes by.

Companies don't want you to see they are "grabbing money" by forcing obsolete - that might cause loyal customers to mistrust them ... instead they want you to "think" your device is wearing out and you should get a new one (Apple was found to be doing exactly this a few years back)

this is a good point, a deliberate degrading of service is even more insidious than obsolescent by design. And that Apple example - it caused the complete collapse of that company... oh no, it barely changed anything and iphones are still considered the "must have" by most, happy to contract spend hundreds a year for the use of a phone, thinking its a good deal

Grzyb wrote on 2026-03-31, 19:16:

Not only there's SPYWARE built into cars themselves, but also - in case of EVs - one can't get far without reporting to the bank, I don't know about any charging station where it's possible to pay with cash!
No matter if it's total blackout, or just payment system failure, or network outage - you're grounded anyway!

cashless payments are another networked interaction and as you point out, its vulnerable to blackout, security attacks, spying etc.

i read a few times about younger generations not wanting cars, a generalisation and not really true - but there is some truth to it, i know young people in their 20's not even learning to drive. Partly its cost but also the prevalence of uber and so on in cities and even anticipating the eventual disappearance of human operated cars. I get the cost reasoning but i never started driving for economic reasons!

there is a seeming compliance, apathy and acquiescence among many folk (not just younger ones bought up / trained on networked interaction & not owning things). The masses are not just walking into it their are kind of feebly wanting it or choosing it anyway. Maybe this is no different from choosing radio over live performance, cars over horses, supermarkets over kitchen gardens - maybe just the same thing really. I just thought we'd have more pushback against something that reminds me of serfdom/feudalism in a way that working for a living decades ago still seemed far enough away from...

and in computer terms - we probably look increasingly strange just opening up the case let along changing components and being enthusiastic about a machine that never goes online