vvbee wrote on 2026-05-04, 08:16:

Here's a test case: Re: Glidos 1.59 not working on Win 98 SE. The only thing the post does is regurgitate AI tokens. By a fair reading of the rule and intent it's at best unclear whether it would count as a violation if posted now, in other words whether it's worth posting. The post is useful to the community, but there's no explicit exception for usefulness, the intent is pro human dynamics and AI is framed as being opposite to it. If the AI post were allowed under discretion the line would begin to blur.

The rules serve as a justification for removing content if and when it starts rubbing people the wrong way, there won't be a black and white document exploring all potential test cases and you will have to be comfortable being in a grey area while no-one complains.

Just giving an example of slop-posts we do not want:

Windows 95 was a pivotal moment in the history of computing, marking a transition into a new era of user-friendly interfaces. Wh […]
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Windows 95 was a pivotal moment in the history of computing, marking a transition into a new era of user-friendly interfaces. When Microsoft released this operating system on August 24, 1995, it changed the way we interact with machines and paved the way for the modern internet.

The Power of the Start Button
One of the most iconic features of Windows 95 was the "Start" button. This simple yet effective tool allowed users to navigate their programs with ease. It organized the workspace and made it possible for anyone to become a computer expert.

Enhanced Connectivity and Performance
With the introduction of Plug and Play technology, Windows 95 made it easier to connect hardware devices. Additionally, its 32-bit architecture provided a significant boost in performance compared to previous versions like Windows 3.1.

A Global Phenomenon
The marketing campaign for Windows 95 was massive, featuring the "Start Me Up" song by the Rolling Stones. This helped the operating system become a household name, transforming the PC from a business tool into a central part of every home.

In conclusion, Windows 95 was not just an update; it was a revolution. Its legacy continues to live on in the operating systems we use today, such as Windows 11. What are your favorite memories of using this legendary software?

NeoG_ wrote on 2026-05-04, 06:16:

I'm surprised people can't figure out what the rules mean, it's pretty clearly written 🤔

#1 No drive-by promotion
#2 No AI slop post/topic content

I think everyone get it but vvbee just wants to parse the rules because he/she is a true believer in the AI hype

Is like youtube, i like to have music in background while work coding, like functional music, but youtube became a big crap, is full of music created by AI, and people that post videos did not care to say "IA Content" to avoid

I prefer winamp and my old mp3 compilations

Happy to see these rules. IMO AI is definitely a useful tool, but I dislike over-reliance on it. Good to use one's own brain once in a while xD

maxtherabbit wrote on 2026-05-04, 12:23:

NeoG_ wrote on 2026-05-04, 06:16:

I'm surprised people can't figure out what the rules mean, it's pretty clearly written 🤔

#1 No drive-by promotion
#2 No AI slop post/topic content

I think everyone get it but vvbee just wants to parse the rules because he/she is a true believer in the AI hype

As far as prohibiting obviously low effort generated content goes, not too controversial, though comes with edge cases. But "AI slop" is not the same as "any AI token," so if you understandably assumed the rule is limited to AI slop then you'd be wrong.

By the way your post may be against the rules (assume good faith, be respectful, avoid harassing and derailing). I won't flag it for now, but good to keep in mind.

vvbee wrote on 2026-05-04, 16:54:

As far as prohibiting obviously low effort generated content goes, not too controversial, though comes with edge cases. But "AI slop" is not the same as "any AI token," so if you understandably assumed the rule is limited to AI slop then you'd be wrong.

By the way your post may be against the rules (assume good faith, be respectful, avoid harassing and derailing).

Being a true believer means to believe something sincerely. For instance, I am a true believer in this community’s ability to operate successfully without rules written to the standard of a mathematical proof. 😀 If maxtherabbit’s opinion is not correct, and you are actually a cynical actor who doesn’t really think AI is very good, why say anything at all?

So we may all understand your intent better, could you explain what is your goal by continuing to post about this in this thread? How do you see yourself achieving your goal by these actions?

I won't flag it for now, but good to keep in mind.

The flag button is not a weapon, it is a call for assistance to resolve a problem. Treating it as though it is a weapon and making veiled threats in this way does actually violate the community standards, so would you please not do this?

Thanks,

These new rules make sense and are good, even if they leave some room for interpretation, it's hard to be perfect and cover all edge cases. I'm not a fan of all existing rules but I understand and accept them. I think moderation on Vogons is not over the top, even taking into account the rules I don't fully agree with, at least it's consistent enough 😀

Be nice to each other, yaddi yadda.

I also agree.

Useful additions.

Parsing them to the point of mathematical proof is not only not useful, but I would venture further and state (take that, mathematical proof) that it is impossible.

Just take a look at what a steaming pile the world is with all its elaborate laws. Nothing good comes from building ever complex legal frameworks when the actors inherently act in bad faith anyway.

At least we don’t act in bad faith, and when someone does it is generally easy to deal with.

Snover wrote on 2026-05-04, 18:02:

Being a true believer means to believe something sincerely. For instance, I am a true believer in this community’s ability to op […]
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vvbee wrote on 2026-05-04, 16:54:

As far as prohibiting obviously low effort generated content goes, not too controversial, though comes with edge cases. But "AI slop" is not the same as "any AI token," so if you understandably assumed the rule is limited to AI slop then you'd be wrong.

By the way your post may be against the rules (assume good faith, be respectful, avoid harassing and derailing).

Being a true believer means to believe something sincerely. For instance, I am a true believer in this community’s ability to operate successfully without rules written to the standard of a mathematical proof. 😀 If maxtherabbit’s opinion is not correct, and you are actually a cynical actor who doesn’t really think AI is very good, why say anything at all?

So we may all understand your intent better, could you explain what is your goal by continuing to post about this in this thread? How do you see yourself achieving your goal by these actions?

I won't flag it for now, but good to keep in mind.

The flag button is not a weapon, it is a call for assistance to resolve a problem. Treating it as though it is a weapon and making veiled threats in this way does actually violate the community standards, so would you please not do this?

Thanks,

The question is about the rule, and it's a valid set of question. As for flagging, I've never done it, but will take care to do it right.

The goal is to understand your new rule, which applies to me as a member. Also mapping out the norms being signaled. It's far from mathematical rigor, it's more that coming out with transparent rules to moderate AI is difficult.

Why don't you ask AI to summarize it for you?

Snover wrote on 2026-05-02, 18:19:

#2: You won’t post topics or replies that are authored by AI.

Thank you. This I why I like hanging around here.

Snover wrote on 2026-05-02, 18:19:

[...] please use your best judgement when reporting this kind of post. For example: did an established community member do something cool and posted a link to their video about it here? Great, watch and discuss! On the other hand, is an account mostly only posting about their YouTube or TikTok or YouTok or TikTube videos and not really engaging with other community content? This is the sort of unwanted behaviour this rule aims to prevent.

This makes sense to me, but the exception to this rule as currently stated on the Terms page runs as follows:

1Posts from established community members about hobby projects like part recreations, PCB kits, etc. is fine.

Can this be clarified? It seems like there is an element of subjectivity in the way you described it in your OP that is not present in the actual terms.

keenmaster486 wrote on Yesterday, 15:38:

This makes sense to me, but the exception to this rule as currently stated on the Terms page runs as follows: […]
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Snover wrote on 2026-05-02, 18:19:

[...] please use your best judgement when reporting this kind of post. For example: did an established community member do something cool and posted a link to their video about it here? Great, watch and discuss! On the other hand, is an account mostly only posting about their YouTube or TikTok or YouTok or TikTube videos and not really engaging with other community content? This is the sort of unwanted behaviour this rule aims to prevent.

This makes sense to me, but the exception to this rule as currently stated on the Terms page runs as follows:

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1Posts from established community members about hobby projects like part recreations, PCB kits, etc. is fine.

Can this be clarified? It seems like there is an element of subjectivity in the way you described it in your OP that is not present in the actual terms.

I guess it's like pornography. They don't want to define it, but they know it when they see it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_know_it_when_I_see_it

Trying to define every single edge case is a lesson in both futility and masochistic self torture.

No matter which way you try to slice, you will find that it doea not sort neatly.

As such, here is how I have interpreted this rule:

This is NOT a full-on ban on generated outputs. As such, dont try to conflate this with niggly edge cases like 'I used autourouting in kcad, is that against the rules?'. This rule is not for stuff like that. If you try, you might as well demand every tool posted here be written by hand with assembler in DOS Debug. (Since relying on a compiler is using dread AI! /s) That way lies argumentum ad absurdum in endless varieties.

Instead, this rule is for stuff like 'I am addicted / dependent on Grammarly, and I need it to write my posts for 'help' (that ammount to begging the community to do all the thinking for me and give me a fully actionable final product from the getgo, because my actual interest in your hobby only extends to end products I can use right now, and I have not only no interest, but also no active faculty, for learning anything about retrocomputing, or computer history), with lota of IPA style that does not belong because the AI thinks that's proper.'

The community does not like doing other people's projects, but does not mind HELPING with projects. It does not mind being helpful and informative, but doesnt like being taken advantage of.

If you use AI to cut some tedium off a project, but are generally still employing your brain, and actually still learning, and still imparting human qualities to your work, nobody will look that crossly at it. The rule just says to declare that you've used the AI for that.

Likewise, if you dont speak English, and need to use machine translation, this is a fully legitimate use of machine language technologies. You are telling the machine what to say, the machine is not doing all your thinking for you, like LLM tokenized output is.

More or less, the rule has this fuzzy distillation:

AI is a tool to facilitate human endeavor. Do not use it to replace human thought or input.

Do not abuse AI to promote a product, or to solicit for things.

I dont see where the big disconnect is.

vetz wrote on 2026-05-04, 12:20:

In conclusion, Windows 95 was not just an update; it was a revolution

That made me laugh. It's like a child's school presentation - like Bart Simpson in the episode Das Bus: "In conclusion, Libya is a land of many contrasts". It captures the tone so well.

Someday there will be online communities that block the participation of non-augmented humans.

BinaryDemon wrote on Yesterday, 17:13:

Someday there will be online communities that block the participation of non-augmented humans.

There's a difference between an augmented human, and a fleshbot.

An augmented human uses technology in concert with their own creativity and volition, to accomplish things outside the reach of people without those tools.

A fleshbot is a simulacrum pantomiming the former, and doing a very poor job of it, that requires special treatment because it happens to have passive biological components.

If you dont use it, you lose it.

Proper use of AI requires the human operator to understand what the AI ia doing, so that it can be correctly utilized.

Failure to do so, promotes the evolution of fleshbots.

I'd prefer for the human brain to not become atrophied connectivity glue, marrying an unthinking, unrealizing machine 'intelligence', to an organic body.

If you dont use your brain for creative and intuitive tasks, and expect AI to do all your creativity for you, you are on the road to fleshbot evolution.

As long as there is no rule against posting while not wearing pants, im Ok.

The mods are just tired, not *monsters*!

Kek!