Do new 60mm fans still exist, and would they be quieter?

TheMobRules wrote on 2026-05-08, 05:23:

MattRocks wrote on 2026-05-08, 05:08:

Have you tried cleaning inside and topping up with sewing machine oil? […]
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Have you tried cleaning inside and topping up with sewing machine oil?

My approach is to first clean the blades and housing with wet wipes. Then use a loose razor blade to lift the old sticker/seal, and use a cocktail stick to remove any black residue. I use a blower to try and push any more residue from bearings into the well, because the well isn't airtight - this effort might be pointless. Then add a drop of oil and blow on the blades to gently turn them. Repeat until it's spinning silently. Wipe off any excess machine oil using wet wipes. Leave to dry before resealing.

Old advice was to reuse the original sticker, but I find the original decades old adhesive too dry to reuse. I reseal with builders aluminium tape - the type used to waterproof house insulation. And, ideally you don't want adhesives dissolving into the oil so my approach can be improved upon.

Hypothesis: You can reduce noise levels by doing the same to new fans.

Oiling only really works on sleeve bearing fans, but those Athlon Socket A fans were usually of the ball bearing type. The bearings are sealed and cannot be re-lubricated, so when they're shot the fan is done unless you manage to get an exact replacement bearing, and in some cases they're just noisy even when new.

That is a misconception. The shielded or sealed miniature bearings become noisy because they are not oil-tight and the original oil escaped. If you are patient and mechanically sympathetic to the bearings then thin machine oil can re-enter the housing through exactly the locations the original oil escaped. That is actually why I emphasise making a durable seal. When the oil heats and turns to vapour under pressure it should penetrate the bearing shields and not the outer seal.

Besides, most of the noise comes from the shaft and not the bearings.

RetroLizard wrote on 2026-05-08, 05:26:

Do new 60mm fans still exist, and would they be quieter?

Yes, if you want good quality fans for a decent price you can search on DigiKey or Mouser, choose 12VDC+60*60mm+3 wires and you'll get a list of options. You can sort them by noise (dB) to get the quieter ones, but keep in mind that it should be able to push enough airflow (CFM) for the heatsink/CPU you're using, not sure what the recommended CFM for those Athlon coolers is.

Or you can just buy a Noctua, but it will probably be more expensive.

TheMobRules wrote on 2026-05-08, 05:36:

RetroLizard wrote on 2026-05-08, 05:26:

Do new 60mm fans still exist, and would they be quieter?

Yes, if you want good quality fans for a decent price you can search on DigiKey or Mouser, choose 12VDC+60*60mm+3 wires and you'll get a list of options. You can sort them by noise (dB) to get the quieter ones, but keep in mind that it should be able to push enough airflow (CFM) for the heatsink/CPU you're using, not sure what the recommended CFM for those Athlon coolers is.

Or you can just buy a Noctua, but it will probably be more expensive.

I was thinking of getting this Noctua fan.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/168184849379

I'll look on Digikey and Mouser.

RetroLizard wrote on 2026-05-08, 05:26:

Do new 60mm fans still exist, and would they be quieter?

Yes, but no. Maybe... 😉

The thing is, what was the fan designed to do? Most new 60mm fans are industrial and noisy - that is why ear defenders are a legal necessity when sending humans into server rooms. My ears may have been damaged by using cheap earplugs. Many quiet fans don't handle high pressure. You might want to compare the airflow specifications of original and replacement if possible.

I hear good things about Noctua. So far I haven't needed to try new fans because oiling is working for me.

MattRocks wrote on 2026-05-08, 05:34:

That is a misconception. The shielded or sealed miniature bearings become noisy because they are not oil-tight and the original oil escaped. If you are patient and mechanically sympathetic to the bearings then thin machine oil can re-enter the housing through exactly the locations the original oil escaped.

Huh. Personally I've yet to see evidence that a ball bearing fan can be properly refurbished with light oil, especially considering ball bearing fans use thicker grease instead of oil as lubricant, so even if you manage to get oil in there it's going to mix with the old solidified grease remains. Here's an interesting document from NMB (a renowned fan manufacturer) comparing sleeve and ball bearing fans.

RetroLizard wrote on 2026-05-08, 05:41:

I was thinking of getting this Noctua fan.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/168184849379

I'll look on Digikey and Mouser.

Ah, that seems like a good price for the Noctua... I really dislike their brown/beige or grey color schemes and prefer regular black fans for my retro stuff, but performance wise they're good.

TheMobRules wrote on 2026-05-08, 06:00:

Huh. Personally I've yet to see evidence that a ball bearing fan can be properly refurbished with light oil, especially consider […]
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MattRocks wrote on 2026-05-08, 05:34:

That is a misconception. The shielded or sealed miniature bearings become noisy because they are not oil-tight and the original oil escaped. If you are patient and mechanically sympathetic to the bearings then thin machine oil can re-enter the housing through exactly the locations the original oil escaped.

Huh. Personally I've yet to see evidence that a ball bearing fan can be properly refurbished with light oil, especially considering ball bearing fans use thicker grease instead of oil as lubricant, so even if you manage to get oil in there it's going to mix with the old solidified grease remains. Here's an interesting document from NMB (a renowned fan manufacturer) comparing sleeve and ball bearing fans.

RetroLizard wrote on 2026-05-08, 05:41:

I was thinking of getting this Noctua fan.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/168184849379

I'll look on Digikey and Mouser.

Ah, that seems like a good price for the Noctua... I really dislike their brown/beige or grey color schemes and prefer regular black fans for my retro stuff, but performance wise they're good.

Color schemes don't matter much when I'm gonna have the case closed up.

RetroLizard wrote on 2026-05-08, 12:03:

TheMobRules wrote on 2026-05-08, 06:00:

Huh. Personally I've yet to see evidence that a ball bearing fan can be properly refurbished with light oil, especially consider […]
Show full quote

MattRocks wrote on 2026-05-08, 05:34:

That is a misconception. The shielded or sealed miniature bearings become noisy because they are not oil-tight and the original oil escaped. If you are patient and mechanically sympathetic to the bearings then thin machine oil can re-enter the housing through exactly the locations the original oil escaped.

Huh. Personally I've yet to see evidence that a ball bearing fan can be properly refurbished with light oil, especially considering ball bearing fans use thicker grease instead of oil as lubricant, so even if you manage to get oil in there it's going to mix with the old solidified grease remains. Here's an interesting document from NMB (a renowned fan manufacturer) comparing sleeve and ball bearing fans.

RetroLizard wrote on 2026-05-08, 05:41:

I was thinking of getting this Noctua fan.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/168184849379

I'll look on Digikey and Mouser.

Ah, that seems like a good price for the Noctua... I really dislike their brown/beige or grey color schemes and prefer regular black fans for my retro stuff, but performance wise they're good.

Color schemes don't matter much when I'm gonna have the case closed up.

Heh yeah, my dude. I feel like that's kinda Noctua's ethos anyway with them stubbornly sticking with their ugly brown fans. That said, they're so overwhelmingly popular now that the Noctua colours as status symbol may override taste.

With Noctuas, I've read some worrying that they could potentially prioritize low noise over sufficient CFM for all applications. Regardless, proof's in the doing: I use one on my XP 2600+ and it keeps it nice and cool.

May also want to consider general airflow in your case, depending what you're working with - an extra 120mm pushing the hot out the back can do a lot of good.

The case I plam on using has no room for extra fans.

I finally bought a POST diagnostic card and today it helped me revive a Chaintech CT-6BTA3 that I'd given up for dead years ago. Turns out it wasn't faulty at all, but rather on the earliest BIOS revision that has some severe compatibility issues and didn't like any of the sticks of RAM I'd tried it with (which I deduced via the code it was getting stuck on). I eventually managed to dig out one that it was happy with and it started right up. However, it also wouldn't boot from my SATA to IDE adapter or anything else I tried and would just freeze when trying to detect them, so I hooked up a floppy drive and flashed the latest BIOS with Uniflash, at which point all the problems went away. It's now perfectly happy to boot from anything and working flawlessly in general with a 500MHz Katmai P3 (for now at least).

It's nice to have another working 440BX board, even if it's not a particularly amazing one (no Coppermine support). After the extreme headaches that a couple of boards with VIA chipsets have given me recently it's a relief to go back to something that just works.

TheMobRules wrote on 2026-05-08, 06:00:

... Personally I've yet to see evidence that a ball bearing fan can be properly refurbished with light oil ...

I've managed to do a few (much harder to get "new" replacements for ancient pre-PC stuff)... not by "squishing" oil past the seal .. A couple I was able to remove and mostly replace the seal, more often I have to make an opening (and re-oil from time to time)

and... I don't typically use "light" oil .. most often I use 90w gear oil (I keep some on-hand for servicing various outdoor equipment) - even this is thin enough at room temp to be able to inject with a syringe. ... like any of these things - YMMV

If you have an inkjet refill kit bottle with probe filler from back in the day those work well for getting at tiny bearings.

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone

On my way to make things happen for here: Socket A: Aiming for the Stars!!!

My Atari 2600 (Sears Tele-Games) journey continues. 😜

Removed the transistor amp composite mod and replaced it with a "CleanComp" that pulls composite, luma, and chroma right from the TIA chip. Much better comp signal, no ghosting, and s-video output. Though, the image below is comp only, that little TV doesn't have s-video.

tehsiggi wrote on 2026-05-10, 16:34:

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone

On my way to make things happen for here: Socket A: Aiming for the Stars!!!

The attachment k7s8x_aio_build.jpeg is no longer available

👀 Good Luck!

Back in the day I cooked an Athlon XP pretty well in a little Shuttle MiniPC and never bothered to try to push it past stock. Currently have a very solid Socket A system, but unfortunately mobo has zero overclocking capability.

If anyone has any suggestions...
Quadro FX 3450 (geforce 6800) bad memory channel

Especially people who understand ram, ancient bioses or finding ancient schematics

Finished servicing a Zip 100 SCSI: oxidation on pins.
Now works like a charm.

Another unit wasn't working, 2 clacks then nothing. After opening it I couldn't find the white pad of the lower reading head.
Only a copper mesh hanging from it. This is the 2nd time I get a unit with this damage.
Unit is for parts now .

For unknown state 5€ a piece I can't complain.

I would guess it happens the same as with floppies, dirty or degraded/breaking down disk and it rips a head off.

Found a backdoor in Zenith ZBIOS from 1989 😀
Very first 1981 IBM PC 5150 had special diagnostic backdoor routine hidden in POST code https://minuszerodegrees.net/5150/post/5150%2 … 20breakdown.htm
"IF REQUESTED, LOAD DIAG. CODE":

Take the clock pin in the motherboard's keyboard DIN connector LOW for 40 ms. (Done by the KBD_RESET subroutine.)
If the attached device responds with the byte of 65h, the attached device is a special IBM device that supplies diagnostic/test code to the 5150 via the keyboard port.
If 65h received, load in the diagnostic/test code (255 bytes) via the keyboard port, then execute the code.

Not that dangerous as it was only active for a split second during boot. But it gave people ideas. Zenith Data Systems implemented something similar in its ZBIOS, except meant to be active at all times when computer runs 😮

seg000:7B03 in https://github.com/raszpl/Zenith_ZBIOS/blob/m … sion%203.2C.lst :

1seg000:7B03 Backdoor_loader proc near ; CODE XREF: Keyboard_Process_Modifiers+30↑p
2 cli
3 mov     ah, IO_Port_64h_KBC_CMD_60_WRITE_CONFIG
4 call    Keyboard_KBC_command
5 call    Keyboard_KBC_wait_input_ready
6 mov     al, 5                      ; magic Keyboard command to initialize backdoor code upload
7 out     IO_Port_60h_KBD_Command, al
8 call    Keyboard_Read_Synchronous
9 mov     cl, al
10 call    Keyboard_Read_Synchronous
11 mov     ch, al
12 mov     ax, 0
13 mov     es, ax
14 mov     di, offset 500h            ; payload lands at 500h
15
16backdoor_load_loop:
17 call    Keyboard_Read_Synchronous
18 stosb
19 loop    backdoor_load_loop
20 jmp     far ptr 0:500h             ; executing our payload
21Backdoor_loader endp

triggered by pressing [T while holding Ctrl:

1check_Backdoor_init_key:             ; CODE XREF: Keyboard_Process_Modifiers+E↑j
2 cmp     ch, 1Bh                   ; Set-1 scancode [ (Left Bracket) key
3 jnz     short check_Backdoor_trigger_key
4 or      byte ptr cs:0CEh, 1
5 jmp     error_exit
6
7check_Backdoor_trigger_key:
8 cmp     ch, 14h                   ; Set-1 scancode T key
9 jnz     short clear_backdoor_gate
10 test    byte ptr cs:0CEh, 1
11 jz      short clear_backdoor_gate
12 call    Backdoor_loader

Good news for Zenith customers from 1989 someone with more sense disabled this in final bios, but dead code is still there 😀

Picked up a Zenith Data Systems ZF-148 8088 PC from the basement.
Had to search for a matching XT keyboard and RGB/RCA monitor for a while.
The system was not powering on, but after replacement of the shorted tantals the system powered up and booted from FDD at least.
Unfortunately the HDD seems dead and after a few minutes the RIFA inside the PS released its magic smoke.
Replaced the RIFAs as well. Will have a closer look at the HDD which is actually 3,5" MFM drive mounted on hardcard with full lenght controller board.