It is a big pity IBM never sold 386DX40 with MCA bus. The 40Mhz AMD version came pretty late in 1991 though. That resolved the 16bit bottleneck of ISA bus in 386. Perhaps someone can solder 386DX40 on IBM MCA board. MCA was frowned upon, but it was a perfect solution for 386. Early 486DX/33 also had just 16bit ISA, it was even in worse situation.

AlexZ wrote on 2026-05-29, 20:27:

It is a big pity IBM never sold 386DX40 with MCA bus. The 40Mhz AMD version came pretty late in 1991 though. That resolved the 16bit bottleneck of ISA bus in 386. Perhaps someone can solder 386DX40 on IBM MCA board. MCA was frowned upon, but it was a perfect solution for 386. Early 486DX/33 also had just 16bit ISA, it was even in worse situation.

I dont think isa is a bottleneck in a 386, my test in a 486DLC-33 show me marginal gain with VLB cards, and same mobo with 386 almost close ISA vs VLB

The only good side is in VLB chipset are new, better win3.1 acceleration etc

theelf wrote on 2026-05-29, 22:38:

I dont think isa is a bottleneck in a 386, my test in a 486DLC-33 show me marginal gain with VLB cards, and same mobo with 386 almost close ISA vs VLB

VLB was worth it for VESA VBE SVGA modes because of the high resolutions. I would recommend that you test it with a benchmark that utilizes SVGA modes. For example 640 x 480 or 800 x 600 with 256 colors.

Exploit wrote on 2026-05-29, 22:57:

theelf wrote on 2026-05-29, 22:38:

I dont think isa is a bottleneck in a 386, my test in a 486DLC-33 show me marginal gain with VLB cards, and same mobo with 386 almost close ISA vs VLB

VLB was worth it for VESA VBE SVGA modes because of the high resolutions. I would recommend that you test it with a benchmark that utilizes SVGA modes. For example 640 x 480 or 800 x 600 with 256 colors.

In general you will not use much high res stuff on 386 in dos

and even you use, to have some gain, the software need to support some acceleration

raw speed 640x480 is similar, i already tested, no big difference to justify invest in isa replacement

16bit ISA bus was limiting for video transfers in 640x480, you could get may be 10 fps. It was used by games like Transport Tycoon or Settlers 2. Playing SVGA games on ISA VGA is not recommended. I OCed ISA bus to improve SVGA performance.

16bit ISA bus wasn't a bottleneck for IO at the time of 386 as period correct hard drives were slow.

VLB came late and became obsolete after like 2 years. MCA existed for far longer and was usable for more than 2 expansion cards.

Hilarious how this thread is more about everything you can't do on a 286 than what you actually can do.

BinaryDemon wrote on 2026-05-30, 09:36:

Hilarious how this thread is more about everything you can't do on a 286 than what you actually can do.

Whats the difference?

These two topics are pretty related, we are not discussing pentium era here. There are also a couple of pages with list of suitable games.

I have tried playing Wolfenstein 3d vga yesterday on my 86Box 286 running at 16Mhz and it is playable, better than what the youtube video suggests, but I wouldn't say it is too enjoyable. You wouldn't play it, same as you wouldn't play Doom on 386 with low details nowadays.

theelf wrote on 2026-05-30, 10:52:

Whats the difference?

What you 'can't do' is obviously a much longer list.

EDIT- It's also not the question the OP asked.

BinaryDemon wrote on 2026-05-30, 12:03:

theelf wrote on 2026-05-30, 10:52:

Whats the difference?

What you 'can't do' is obviously a much longer list.

mm... i dont know

I have a pretty nice 286 setup and compared to 386+ the cant do list is not sooo long

Of course is not same a 286 8mhz with cga/hercules than mine, a 25mhz harris, 4mb, 8900D vga etc

AlexZ wrote on 2026-05-30, 11:16:

. You wouldn't play it, same as you wouldn't play Doom on 386 with low details nowadays.

thats exactly why many of us build 286/386 etc machines

AlexZ wrote on 2026-05-30, 11:16:

I have tried playing Wolfenstein 3d vga yesterday on my 86Box 286 running at 16Mhz and it is playable

86Box never claimed to be cycle accurate. Even if they try to make CPU speed in the ballpark the rest of peripherals like ram or ISA bus have infinite speed 😀

AlexZ wrote on 2026-05-30, 11:16:

These two topics are pretty related, we are not discussing pentium era here. There are also a couple of pages with list of suitable games.

I have tried playing Wolfenstein 3d vga yesterday on my 86Box 286 running at 16Mhz and it is playable, better than what the youtube video suggests, but I wouldn't say it is too enjoyable. You wouldn't play it, same as you wouldn't play Doom on 386 with low details nowadays.

The 12 MHz 286 video? I've found another one with a 16 MHz PC.
Seems quite playable to me, though I'm not that of an FPS fan.
It has an SB Pro and 4 MB of RAM, btw. And a Cirrua VGA, it seems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBPZMnqSduo

Edit: Here's a video of a multimedia 286, I think it's interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B11b1AyIJ6E

It reminds me a bit of my old Schneider 286 PC I had in the 90s.
It was built in 1988, though and had 12 MHz instead. And a slow on-board VGA.
It too had received a soundcard+CD-ROM drive upgrade, because that was very popular in early-mid 90s.
I did have a PAS16 with a Sony drive, however. No SB Pro 2, just SB 1.5 emulation via Thunderboard chip (besides native PAS16 side).

Edit: Why was I using a 286 back then and no 386/486/586?
In retrospect, it was because it was affordable, but also because it was sufficient and because it wasn't ugly.

I got my desktop PC from a company dissolve, they had no need for 286 PCs or 16-Bit PCs in general anymore.
When I got it, it basically was a barebone PC. No HDD or HDD controller, just a 3,5" HD floppy.

My father and me then installed spare parts that were common in early 90s.
- Four 1 MB SIMMs (because 386/486 use 32-Bit, so a bank has 4x 8-Bit modules).
- An AT Bus host interface and an old 80 MB Conner HDD (used as a 40 MB model because of Setup limitations).

MS-DOS 6.20, PC-Tools Deluxe and Windows 3.10 were then installed.
Because the requirements were within what the 286 had offered.
Also, MS-DOS 6.x and the step up disks were already in the house..

Shortly after, the CD-ROM/soundcard kit had followed.
The upgrade process was same as with a normal 386 PC, except that the CPU was an 286 instead.
So yeah, my 286 was being treated just like a little 386 would have been.

My father had a 386DX-40 instead, so I had access to 32-Bit applications if it was really necessary.
Which interestingly wasn't often the case. That F16 flight sim and web browsers were the exception, though.

The only real downside of my 286 was the slow integrated 8-Bit VGA card, maybe.
Was an ATI VGA Wonder, I think. Probably with juat 256 KB of RAM.

It's spear of destiny, but basically the same thing. It seems to run just a little bit slower than my 86Box 286 at 16Mhz, due to reasons rasz_pl explained.

Wolfenstein 3D is perfectly playable on a 286:

https://youtu.be/7lBHxfsCqWw?si=X_UccltTsAs7bL-o

I recorded that over nearly 15 years ago on the actual motherboard/CPU/ram combo I had in storage from my first PC. Yes, I added a bit better VGA card (CL 5428 compared to my 512k Trident I had) and a sb16 (only had a SB 2.0 back then!), but there's nothing that makes it not a period correct.

These days when you can easily put together 'hotrod' 286 machines with 20 or 25MHz Harris chips it's even better.

Back in the late 90s, I picked up a 25Mhz harris in a board out of curiosity, and the Wolf3D version I had at that time was 1.1 or something, earlier than probably what came out with re-releases. Anyway, it was unplayable on that for speed reasons. It was too damn fast, merest tap on a key and you spun right round or slammed into the wall, lining up on a door to open it took multiple attempts, no matter how much of a quick tap you could do on the keys. I am not remembering if I had to use the turbo button on 486 machines to play it, but seems likely. IDK if latest version is slower on era spec 286-10 or so than the versions current when 286 was current but it is a possibility.

I can't see anything called out directly here https://wolfenstein3d.nl/wolfenstein-versions/

But if I had to guess, it was to do with the joystick calibration, and the timing changes needed for that on fast machines.

megatron-uk wrote on 2026-05-31, 15:51:

Wolfenstein 3D is perfectly playable on a 286: […]
Show full quote

Wolfenstein 3D is perfectly playable on a 286:

https://youtu.be/7lBHxfsCqWw?si=X_UccltTsAs7bL-o

I recorded that over nearly 15 years ago on the actual motherboard/CPU/ram combo I had in storage from my first PC. Yes, I added a bit better VGA card (CL 5428 compared to my 512k Trident I had) and a sb16 (only had a SB 2.0 back then!), but there's nothing that makes it not a period correct.

These days when you can easily put together 'hotrod' 286 machines with 20 or 25MHz Harris chips it's even better.

That is a quite old video. It doesn't look that bad. But when I play it locally on 86Box, it feels terrible on controls, very imprecise due to low fps. I tried yesterday and again today. It should run much better on 25Mhz Harris.

AlexZ wrote on 2026-05-31, 16:51:

megatron-uk wrote on 2026-05-31, 15:51:

Wolfenstein 3D is perfectly playable on a 286: […]
Show full quote

Wolfenstein 3D is perfectly playable on a 286:

https://youtu.be/7lBHxfsCqWw?si=X_UccltTsAs7bL-o

I recorded that over nearly 15 years ago on the actual motherboard/CPU/ram combo I had in storage from my first PC. Yes, I added a bit better VGA card (CL 5428 compared to my 512k Trident I had) and a sb16 (only had a SB 2.0 back then!), but there's nothing that makes it not a period correct.

These days when you can easily put together 'hotrod' 286 machines with 20 or 25MHz Harris chips it's even better.

That is a quite old video. It doesn't look that bad. But when I play it locally on 86Box, it feels terrible on controls, very imprecise due to low fps. I tried yesterday and again today. It should run much better on 25Mhz Harris.

Use real hardware, emulation is totally innacurate to benchmark

Back on time I enjoy wolf and spear in my 286 16mhz, i win both games many times,control was fine back on time, and now in my 286 is same

Totally playable in my 286 16 and 25mhz PCs, just need a good isa card, trident 8900d or cl542x for example. I had a trident back on time, 0WS good card

megatron-uk wrote on 2026-05-31, 15:51:

https://youtu.be/7lBHxfsCqWw?si=X_UccltTsAs7bL-o

I recorded that over nearly 15 years ago on the actual motherboard/CPU/ram combo I had in storage from my first PC. Yes, I added a bit better VGA card (CL 5428 compared to my 512k Trident I had) and a sb16 (only had a SB 2.0 back then!), but there's nothing that makes it not a period correct.

Yes, this is late stage 16MHz 286, Im guessing from around 1991, and its doing ~12fps. 12fps was totally playable in early nineties, somewhat painful but acceptable today 😀

theelf wrote on 2026-05-31, 17:39:

Use real hardware, emulation is totally innacurate to benchmark

I have 286/386/486/Pentium on emulator, I have already too many computers. Only Pentium III is a physical machine and scales down poorly unfortunately.

Anybody tried Star Wars: X-Wing (1993) or Star Wars: Tie Fighter (1994) on 286? They are also really nice games, but 3d so could be challenging. They both are like 12MB large, fall into 386 era but with lower graphics quality could work on 286.