RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2026-06-27, 14:42:

We need to figure out the technical process for switching an SD-50 to digital output. It is the only module that Roland still supports on current systems, they are readily available for use, and the quality is definitely there, from the game MIDI vids I've viewed on YT.

I didn't found service manual for SD-50, but SD-35 uses uPD6376GS-E2 which is usual 16-bit DAC that inputs i2s bus. We need detailed pcb photo of SD-50 to figure out what DAS is used.
Anyway i think that its 100% possible to mod SD-50 to have SPDIF with my https://github.com/vetal-esher/18bit-DIT

stgiga wrote on 2026-06-27, 00:18:

I have an SC-D70

Thanks, but I also have this module. If you have any other devices with GS mode or that are Roland SC variants, please advise us.

In other news, I have a Roland MV-30 now, which is NOT a Sound Canvas, but effectively was the precursor to the SC-55, a hybrid of the U-220 and D-70, with a proto-GM map and the first PCM/wavetable device with a MT-32 map. Sounds amazing.

esher wrote on 2026-06-27, 18:24:

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on 2026-06-27, 14:42:

We need to figure out the technical process for switching an SD-50 to digital output. It is the only module that Roland still supports on current systems, they are readily available for use, and the quality is definitely there, from the game MIDI vids I've viewed on YT.

I didn't found service manual for SD-50, but SD-35 uses uPD6376GS-E2 which is usual 16-bit DAC that inputs i2s bus. We need detailed pcb photo of SD-50 to figure out what DAS is used.
Anyway i think that its 100% possible to mod SD-50 to have SPDIF with my https://github.com/vetal-esher/18bit-DIT

SD-50 and SD-35 are entirely different devices. SD-35 was 1991 and basically SC-55 mkI plus floppy drive, possibly with some additional annoying limitations. SD-50 was 2009 and is a hybrid of the era tech like Sonic Cell and Fantom and SD lines, but watered down (I think?). Rough Google search indicates reduced feature Sonic Cell.

SD-50 also supports natively digital audio (24-bit, 44.1kHz) over USB, from what I can tell?

It is a GS synth so it's a valid part of this project, however. I think from memory one of the tone banks might even be a SC-55 soundalike. It looks like it has a SC-50 GS sound map (all SC-55mkII instruments minus the MT-32 sounds), as well as GM2.

As for "the only module Roland supports", any non-USB synth like the original SC-55, 88 etc will work just fine.

I'll give you this: the SC-D70 was *not* the final Sound Canvas. It was the VA-76 and its lighter versions VA-7 and VA-5. They add to the 8850 starting in the Bank Select MSB 40s. And unlike some of their descendants they have the 4 maps and the MT+CM modes of proper SCs. Also they have additional effects and drums.

All of these are quite expensive. My Tyroland bank DOES support the VA-76 and its siblings' extensions. But I don't own the device. Some things it adds include folk instruments as well as extra synths, plus a Leslie, ZUNpet, Mariachi ZUNpet, a certain notable guitar not on SC-88x, and a few other cool things. Some of their 8850 patches are mapped differently than the 8850 has but still exist and this is only in small quantities. Also there was a column bug in the manual. Nothing lives in Bank 80.

If anyone has a VA-76, VA-7, or VA-5, you may want to test it. Also VA-76 and VA-7 both have 128-voice polyphony like 8850, the weaker have 64. Oh and VAs have LCD but it's shaped differently and more detailed than even 8850's beast of an LCD. Bad Apple on it wouldn't require stretching or boxing. Even the cheapest VAs in this series aren't cheap, and they're bulky, even if it's not VA-76. It's like how the Yamaha V50 has better OPZ-II chips in it than the normal OPZ keyboards but it's ridiculously expensive, or the DX1 is basically a richer DX7 but is rare as can be. The best GS device is a VA-76 or VA-7, period, if you can obtain one. Roland has the manual available. Also the VAs have a bunch of extra effect parameters due the VariPhrase stuff in it, and the quality a VA-76 demo on YouTube has may point to an increase in sound quality. Either way if you want a great GS device, the VAs are the final boss.

stgiga wrote on Yesterday, 02:11:

I'll give you this: the SC-D70 was *not* the final Sound Canvas. It was the VA-76 and its lighter versions VA-7 and VA-5.

stgiga wrote on Yesterday, 02:11:

Either way if you want a great GS device, the VAs are the final boss.

the VA5/76 was released in like 2000/2001.

I'd go for the BK-7M, it has GM2, GS, and XG Lite... released in 2011.

stgiga wrote on Yesterday, 02:11:

I'll give you this: the SC-D70 was *not* the final Sound Canvas. It was the VA-76 and its lighter versions VA-7 and VA-5. They add to the 8850 starting in the Bank Select MSB 40s. And unlike some of their descendants they have the 4 maps and the MT+CM modes of proper SCs. Also they have additional effects and drums.

All of these are quite expensive. My Tyroland bank DOES support the VA-76 and its siblings' extensions. But I don't own the device. Some things it adds include folk instruments as well as extra synths, plus a Leslie, ZUNpet, Mariachi ZUNpet, a certain notable guitar not on SC-88x, and a few other cool things. Some of their 8850 patches are mapped differently than the 8850 has but still exist and this is only in small quantities. Also there was a column bug in the manual. Nothing lives in Bank 80.

If anyone has a VA-76, VA-7, or VA-5, you may want to test it. Also VA-76 and VA-7 both have 128-voice polyphony like 8850, the weaker have 64. Oh and VAs have LCD but it's shaped differently and more detailed than even 8850's beast of an LCD. Bad Apple on it wouldn't require stretching or boxing. Even the cheapest VAs in this series aren't cheap, and they're bulky, even if it's not VA-76. It's like how the Yamaha V50 has better OPZ-II chips in it than the normal OPZ keyboards but it's ridiculously expensive, or the DX1 is basically a richer DX7 but is rare as can be. The best GS device is a VA-76 or VA-7, period, if you can obtain one. Roland has the manual available. Also the VAs have a bunch of extra effect parameters due the VariPhrase stuff in it, and the quality a VA-76 demo on YouTube has may point to an increase in sound quality. Either way if you want a great GS device, the VAs are the final boss.

Correct, Roland continued to use the 8850 sounds in arranger keyboards going forward. In fact, the E-50 and 60 were still using the 8850 sounds AFTER the VA line, albeit without the Sound Canvas maps to the best of my knowledge. And also the G-70 appears to be the same.

I don't think a "proper SC" is defined by MT-32 mode however, a Roland SC-50 is a GS Sound Canvas just fine without the MT-32 map. The MT-32 map is just that, nothing to do with GS or Sound Canvases, although people associate one with the other. In fact, a MT-32 map debuted in the MV-30, prior to GM and GS even existing, albeit, the MV-30 was almost like a prototype for what would become the SC-55.

Roland arranger keyboards CAN be expensive, they can also be extremely cheap when people who don't know what they have sell them. I had a chance to get a cheap VA-7 and VA-76, I didn't, I regret it.

I think the VA line all feature touch screens as well, which is cool for a Sound Canvas!

It appears that for the VA-7/76, the wave ROM has been expanded from 64MB to 96MB (32MB compressed to 48MB), so that's potentially quite a big increase for new samples. However, it's unclear from looking at the service notes whether the new 16MB is from the VariPhrase section, which has 16MB (compressed) of patterns, or whether there's 16MB new *on top of* the VariPhrase section. I am inclined to think that the wave ROM may be effectively unchanged from the SC-8850 (32MB plus 16MB of VariPhrase = 48MB compressed) and the new patches use existing waveforms, however I haven't listened to demos.

Given that the DAC is unchanged from the relatively undesirable SC-8850 one (AK4324, the 8820 and SC-D70 used the somewhat nicer PCM1716, and to my ears they have some sort of compression on the output that isn't a bad thing, unlike say XV-5050), it's possible to conclude that the VA keyboards may not be that desirable, beyond some additional patches, and even those may use the existing 64MB 8850 wave ROM.
So, the most desirable SC that still has the SC maps and MT-32 mode still remains a cross between the SC-8820/D70 (best sound for the final iteration, and digital 48kHz sound only for the D70, but both less wave ROM), the SC-8850/VA keyboards (most sounds, best GUI/screens) and the SC-88Pro (best overall sound quality of the SC line).

If you don't mind an expanded wave ROM at the expense of MT-32 sounds, the G-70 is probably the final logical conclusion of the SC-8850, still uses the same DAC, similarly specced, now with 96MB (compressed) wave ROM instead of the 32MB on the 8850. Still has a touch screen, now apparently with 3D effects(!).
The E-50/60 have some upgraded parts (AK4382 DAC now, no idea how it compares to 4324 but I imagine it's still an average DAC) and a greatly upgraded wave ROM beyond that, 512MB (unclear whether compressed or not, I would presume uncompressed, the service manual was inconclusive). However they only have 64-note polyphony. Still have the "3D effects" touch screen.

In terms of arranger keyboards, I think that about covers it!

BloodyCactus wrote on Yesterday, 05:12:

the VA5/76 was released in like 2000/2001.

I'd go for the BK-7M, it has GM2, GS, and XG Lite... released in 2011.

Good catch, the BK-7M would appear to also be using the 8850 sounds! The Roland E-A7 keyboard appears to be also, and both are more modern - 2011 and 2015! Both with 128-note polyphony again, too. The E-A7 allows for sampling and 128MB of user samples to be loaded as well.

I couldn't find a service manual/notes for either, so I don't have any specs beyond what Roland gave publicly, such as the DAC used or wave ROM size.

The E-A7 would appear to be the most modern iteration of the 8850, then, albeit minus SC and MT-32 maps and modes.

Another misc. more portable device which uses the 8850 tones is the VIMA JM-5 (and JM-8 ), a karaoke sort of competitor to other brands like Merish, which seemingly failed, but carries the sound engine from one of the arranger keyboards, I believe the E-80. Again, no service manual is readily available for any of these.
Interestingly, the JM-5/8 (same patches) appears to be almost exactly the same as the BK-7M patch wise, except the BK has a couple of SuperNATURAL tones added in, a Trombone and a Tenor Sax!

I did a Google search using a specific patch in the 8850 map, "ChorusLuhFem", and didn't find anything beyond what's been discussed here (well, things like the BK-3, but that is less interesting than the 7).

yeah its weird the bk-7m has gs + xglite as the powerhouse integra 7 has neither of these and comes from 2012.

The Integra-7 does have GS, but it's not advertised. It has four operating modes, Studio, GM1, GM2, and GS.

I DID check the BKs and G-70 and they lack MT mode and some have incompatible patches elsewhere. But there's a reason I said that the VA-76 is the final *true* SC, in that for the purposes of stuff like DOS games it is the best of the bunch, and quite a few SC midi files in the wild use the Bank Select MSB126 + MSB127 patches (which even made MU). So I will say that the pinnacle of SoundCanvas is the VA-76, which is a supercharged 8850 shoved into a keyboard, without any sacrifices of modes that some MIDI files and a decent amount of games rely on. So if you're looking for the best SC and you have room, VA-76 or VA-7 is your friend.

BloodyCactus wrote on Yesterday, 14:56:

yeah its weird the bk-7m has gs + xglite as the powerhouse integra 7 has neither of these and comes from 2012.

The INTEGRA-7 has a SC-7 (SC-55 GM) map, but it's not designed a MIDI file player, it's a studio powerhouse.

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on Yesterday, 19:50:

The Integra-7 does have GS, but it's not advertised. It has four operating modes, Studio, GM1, GM2, and GS.

I don't think it has GS, does it?

stgiga wrote on Yesterday, 22:22:

I DID check the BKs and G-70 and they lack MT mode and some have incompatible patches elsewhere. But there's a reason I said that the VA-76 is the final *true* SC, in that for the purposes of stuff like DOS games it is the best of the bunch, and quite a few SC midi files in the wild use the Bank Select MSB126 + MSB127 patches (which even made MU). So I will say that the pinnacle of SoundCanvas is the VA-76, which is a supercharged 8850 shoved into a keyboard, without any sacrifices of modes that some MIDI files and a decent amount of games rely on. So if you're looking for the best SC and you have room, VA-76 or VA-7 is your friend.

As mentioned above, MT-32 mode /=/ GS, or even a Sound Canvas.

I think for DOS gaming your best bet is a SC-88 Pro or SC-D70, and if you want to work with MIDI files outside of a game, there are other options mentioned in my previous posts. A rare, (typically) expensive, heavy VA-7/76 is not really a meaningful upgrade for gaming, and still suffers from the sound quality issues of the 8850.

Spikey wrote on Today, 01:14:

RetroGamer4Ever wrote on Yesterday, 19:50:

The Integra-7 does have GS, but it's not advertised. It has four operating modes, Studio, GM1, GM2, and GS.

I don't think it has GS, does it?

It does. It's just not advertised and they don't "explain it" in any of the owner/support literature, but there's a GS mode there that can be accessed, despite the product not having the GS logo on it. What exactly it is, isn't clear, but people who have accessed it have claimed it's apparently SC-55 compliant and others have said it's more like an SC-88, based on how it sounds. The associated documents simply say that it's there and can be accessed, but there is no provided explanation whatsoever about what it is and what tones you get or anything relating to GS, just that it is there and can be accessed. By 2012, Roland GS was just a sort of "vague standard", with no firm definition beyond whatever products Roland was shipping with the GS logo slapped on them and the industry had moved on to straight-up samplers and DAW software, so Roland had no incentive to try and continue pushing it, just to keep it around for royalties and backwards compatibility, the latter of which is the likely purpose for inclusion in the Integra-7.