Hi,

If you are trying to write a floppy disk image, and the name seems to imply that, then you wouldn't use regular copy for that as that would simply write the disk image as a file to the disk, however that would simply result in an out-of-space kind of error message not an unrecognized error one, so there seems to be some other issue at play here.

Can you write a small file, for example a simple .txt containing a single sentence to the floppy? If that also gives an error then that would help pinpoint the error better as this error message is not very specific about what happened.

Also can you post whether you are using an in-built floppy drive or an external USB one?

MagefromAntares wrote on Yesterday, 08:47:

Hi,

If you are trying to write a floppy disk image, and the name seems to imply that, then you wouldn't use regular copy for that as that would simply write the disk image as a file to the disk, however that would simply result in an out-of-space kind of error message not an unrecognized error one, so there seems to be some other issue at play here.

Sorry I dont understand what the term "write" means hear!
I was copying and pasting the file over

MagefromAntares wrote on Yesterday, 08:47:

Can you write a small file, for example a simple .txt containing a single sentence to the floppy? If that also gives an error then that would help pinpoint the error better as this error message is not very specific about what happened.

Again not sure what you mean by "write". But I have opened the notepad program and written "test" saved it to A drive as "test" and all went ok. Took the Fdisk out put it back in again opened it up and there the file was, opened the file and it read test. Now written test 01, done the above again and all good!

MagefromAntares wrote on Yesterday, 08:47:

Also can you post whether you are using an in-built floppy drive or an external USB one?

It is the proper traditional 3.5" type of floppy drive that they appear to no longer make anymore. Connects to the MB with grey ribbon cable (smaller then the IDE one, dont know the name for it though). Not the USB newer types that are sold new now

Thanks

Most common floppy disk errors are caused by the buildup of "crud" on the head over time, corrected by a bit of alcohol (the cleaning kind, not the kind that some people use to "solve" problems 😀 ) on a special "cleaning" disk.

You cam test for this by seeing if you can format the floppy and then copy SMALL files to it (less than a meg) - if no, you probably have to clean the drive.

You also have to make sure the file you are copying is not too large for the available space on the drive.

Otherwise, we have to know exactly what you are trying to write to the disk and how you are doing so.

If you are trying to create a working floppy disk from a floppy disk image file (typically .IMG) you need a tool to do that,
something like my own XDISK.COM (DOS/Win95/98) or DSKWRITE.EXE (Win32/64) - I have these available in DBDOS.ZIP on my site.

Im from Windows wrote on Yesterday, 10:09:

... Sorry I dont understand what the term "write" means hear! ...

The act of putting something (anything) on a disk is called "writing" the disk. Like putting information on a piece of paper with a pen.

(and just to be clean - sitting a coffee cup physically on top of a disk jacket - is NOT writing it! 😀 )

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 10:47:

Most common floppy disk errors are caused by the buildup of "crud" on the head over time, corrected by a bit of alcohol (the cleaning kind, not the kind that some people use to "solve" problems 😀 ) on a special "cleaning" disk.

So its a special Fdisk that has alcohol inside of it

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 10:47:

You cam test for this by seeing if you can format the floppy and then copy SMALL files to it (less than a meg) - if no, you probably have to clean the drive.

Formats fine!

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 10:47:

You also have to make sure the file you are copying is not too large for the available space on the drive. […]
Show full quote

You also have to make sure the file you are copying is not too large for the available space on the drive.

Otherwise, we have to know exactly what you are trying to write to the disk and how you are doing so.

If you are trying to create a working floppy disk from a floppy disk image file (typically .IMG) you need a tool to do that,
something like my own XDISK.COM (DOS/Win95/98) or DSKWRITE.EXE (Win32/64) - I have these available in DBDOS.ZIP on my site.

The file type is a 7z and 644kb of data
Hope that helps!

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 10:55:

Im from Windows wrote on Yesterday, 10:09:

... Sorry I dont understand what the term "write" means hear! ...

The act of putting something (anything) on a disk is called "writing" the disk. Like putting information on a piece of paper with a pen.

(and just to be clean - sitting a coffee cup physically on top of a disk jacket - is NOT writing it! 😀 )

So that would include copy+paste and save as then?

Im from Windows wrote on Yesterday, 11:06:

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 10:47:

Most common floppy disk errors are caused by the buildup of "crud" on the head over time, corrected by a bit of alcohol (the cleaning kind, not the kind that some people use to "solve" problems 😀 ) on a special "cleaning" disk.

So its a special Fdisk that has alcohol inside of it

Cleaning disks come in a few different types - the most common look mostly like a "normal" disk except that the flexible "disk" inside isn't dark colored media, it's a material (usually white) which can absorb a a few drops of cleaning alcohol (supplied with the disk in a small bottle) and release it when pressed between the heads as it spins and "cleans".

Formats fine!

Most likely the drive is OK - but to be sure I would write and read back some data.

The file type is a 7z and 644kb of data
Hope that helps!

.7Z is a fairly typical compressed file format, and is NOT an image.
644kb should be well within the capacity of a freshly formatted 3.5" HD disk.

It's possible that you have a DD disk, which looks almost the same as an HD d isk (only the small hole with the slider, not the second small hole - both near the end away from the sliding media cover)
But even in that case, with only 720k capacity it should still be enough, and Windows should be telling you if a disk is too small, not giving you the general error message.

What capacity does Windows say is available on the disk.

If you're not sure how, you can go to a command prompt and enter: >dir A:
which will show you any files on the disk and report it's "bytes free".

If the disk is truly freshly formatted and there's nothing on it, it might not show "bytes free"
in which can you can do:

> DIR A: >A:\X
> type A:\X

This will also "write" the directory listing to a file called "X" on A: - and if above TYPE works you know the drive and write/read!

Failing that you need more diagnostics.

Exactly what OS are you running? If Win95/98 you can boot to DOS and use my ImageDisk package (available on "Daves Old Computers" which has some fairly comprehensive floppy drive capabilities.

If you don't have access to true DOS, you need a working floppy drive (to create/boot the stand-alone ImageDisk setup), or a working CD/DVD writer (I include a file to convert BOOTIMD.IMG to BOOTIMD.ISO which you can write to CD/DVD (assuming your system supports boot from CD/DVD)

Im from Windows wrote on Yesterday, 11:07:

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 10:55:

Im from Windows wrote on Yesterday, 10:09:

... Sorry I dont understand what the term "write" means hear! ...

The act of putting something (anything) on a disk is called "writing" the disk. Like putting information on a piece of paper with a pen.

So that would include copy+paste and save as then?

Any operation that changes whats recorded on the disk is writing it.
This includes placing a file on it (by either copy, paste or save)
and even things like erasing a file on it or formatting it! (although this isn't thought of as "putting something on", think of "something" as "free space" in this case)!

seeing your first screenshot you have downloaded the Win98 SE bootdisk image off winworldpc. To expand on what Dave said, this file is a 7z file, for "7zip". It's just another compression format like zip or rar. You need to extract the content of that archive with 7zip, it contains the .img file of the boot disk Dave was talking about. You need to "write" that image (and NOT copy-paste the file onto the floppy) using a specialised bit of software for that exact purpose - writing image files back to floppies.

See an image as an instantaneous snapshot of a whole floppy, that is captured as an .img file. You can then "replay" that snapshot onto a fresh floppy using appropriate software and you end up with a (relatively) perfect copy of the original one. Dave gave you a few pointers to such software.

All true ... but it doesn't explain the error - he should have ended up with an (unusable) floppy disk containing a 644k .7z file.

It doesn't explain why the FDC "reported an error not recognized by the driver".

Perhaps there's something in the name that Winblows decides should be written differently (who knows - I've seen some weird senseless things from the big MS), you could try renaming it - but that still wouldn't get you a bookable disk.

You need to get 7zip to extract the actual image fike, then write to disk using a tool like I suggested earlier.

True, just putting that aside as an edge-case with a long "modern" 7z filename (file is "Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition - Boot Disk (3.5-1.44mb).7z" that WinXP is maybe not happy about and rolling with the fact he said format and copying a basic .txt file worked fine 😀

Boohyaka wrote on Yesterday, 14:08:

True, just putting that aside as an edge-case with a long "modern" 7z filename (file is "Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition - Boot Disk (3.5-1.44mb).7z" that WinXP is maybe not happy about and rolling with the fact he said format and copying a basic .txt file worked fine 😀

Exactly ... Hence my suggestion to try rename (something simple/short like W98BOOT.7Z)

That wouldn't give a boot disk, but might be more informative as to what the actual problem is.

One would hope that MS in distributing a boot disk image for an OS would make the name compatible with that OS, but you never know - strange things have come from there.

Depending on what OS is currently running, could be one of several aspects of the "long filename" - length, embedded spaces, embedded '.'s
Long names were in their infancy <= W98 ... but I would hope if the problem were syntax or unable to read that file, MS would have generated a more indicative message than "unknown floppy controller" error. - in fact it points to a piece of hardware which isn't really relevant to the reported error - but ... that's MS!

and ... once you get the actual image from the .7z, might not be a bad idea to rename it to something simple/short as well!

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 12:48:

Cleaning disks come in a few different types - the most common look mostly like a "normal" disk except that the flexible "disk" inside isn't dark colored media, it's a material (usually white) which can absorb a a few drops of cleaning alcohol (supplied with the disk in a small bottle) and release it when pressed between the heads as it spins and "cleans".

I have a can of easy start (ether) if that is of any use? can I take the cover off the drive and spray the head with easy start or is that a big no no?

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 12:48:

Most likely the drive is OK - but to be sure I would write and read back some data.

.7Z is a fairly typical compressed file format, and is NOT an image.
644kb should be well within the capacity of a freshly formatted 3.5" HD disk.

It seams to have managed to copy the file onto the disk now. But time will only tell when i copy other files to other disks

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 12:48:

It's possible that you have a DD disk, which looks almost the same as an HD d isk (only the small hole with the slider, not the second small hole - both near the end away from the sliding media cover)
But even in that case, with only 720k capacity it should still be enough, and Windows should be telling you if a disk is too small, not giving you the general error message.

Pass! dont understand any of that

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 12:48:

What capacity does Windows say is available on the disk.

used space 643MB and free space 780MB. but that is with it now working

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 12:48:

If you're not sure how, you can go to a command prompt and enter: >dir A: which will show you any files on the disk and report i […]
Show full quote

If you're not sure how, you can go to a command prompt and enter: >dir A:
which will show you any files on the disk and report it's "bytes free".

If the disk is truly freshly formatted and there's nothing on it, it might not show "bytes free"
in which can you can do:

> DIR A: >A:\X
> type A:\X

This will also "write" the directory listing to a file called "X" on A: - and if above TYPE works you know the drive and write/read!

Failing that you need more diagnostics.

Exactly what OS are you running? If Win95/98 you can boot to DOS and use my ImageDisk package (available on "Daves Old Computers" which has some fairly comprehensive floppy drive capabilities.

If you don't have access to true DOS, you need a working floppy drive (to create/boot the stand-alone ImageDisk setup), or a working CD/DVD writer (I include a file to convert BOOTIMD.IMG to BOOTIMD.ISO which you can write to CD/DVD (assuming your system supports boot from CD/DVD)

Im running win xp. I dont know how to get a command prompt with it

Boohyaka wrote on Yesterday, 13:42:

seeing your first screenshot you have downloaded the Win98 SE bootdisk image off winworldpc. To expand on what Dave said, this file is a 7z file, for "7zip". It's just another compression format like zip or rar. You need to extract the content of that archive with 7zip, it contains the .img file of the boot disk Dave was talking about. You need to "write" that image (and NOT copy-paste the file onto the floppy) using a specialised bit of software for that exact purpose - writing image files back to floppies.

Yer aparantly win98 dose not like SATA HDDs and CDROMs (it only likes IDE cables) so that is supposed to help install win98

I have that 7z program installed so i opened up 7-zip file manager. Found my "win98 SE bootdisk" I then tried to extract it to the Fdrive but it said there was no enough room on the disk. This sounds odd and strange because the file before used about half of the Fdisk and the file was created to fit on one floppy disk (i think!)

So dose it make any differance if i extract the file to my C drive and copy it over to the A drive instead

Boohyaka wrote on Yesterday, 13:42:

See an image as an instantaneous snapshot of a whole floppy, that is captured as an .img file. You can then "replay" that snapshot onto a fresh floppy using appropriate software and you end up with a (relatively) perfect copy of the original one. Dave gave you a few pointers to such software.

Again pass! as dont understand what he was refering to

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 14:39:

Exactly ... Hence my suggestion to try rename (something simple/short like W98BOOT.7Z)

That wouldn't give a boot disk, but might be more informative as to what the actual problem is.

I changed the file name to xxx. and again and tried to extract to Fdrive. but again at 71% not enough room on the disk

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 14:39:

One would hope that MS in distributing a boot disk image for an OS would make the name compatible with that OS, but you never know - strange things have come from there.

with 7-zip file manager I was able to get inside of the file and read the notepad file and it reads as of such

======================= http://www.winworldpc.com =======================
This archive has originated from WinWorld

WinWorld is a site devoted to saving and sharing historic software --
providing free, unrestricted access to a large collection of vintage
operating systems and applications. We believe old software that has
fallen out of use should be available for anyone to use for the purposes
of learning and experimentation.

Our downloads library can be accessed from our website

Stop by WinBoards, our small but long-standing community. Whether you're
looking for help or just dropping by to say hello!

Do visit us at http://www.WinWorldPC.com

Im from Windows wrote on Today, 09:21:

I have a can of easy start (ether) if that is of any use? can I take the cover off the drive and spray the head with easy start or is that a big no no?

You don't want to go spraying things into a drive.
You can clean drive heads by hand, but 3.5" drives are difficult.

Basically you cut a strip of paper which can placed under the head and pulled back and forth.
With power-off you mildly impregnate the strip cleaning alcohol place it under heads, close the drive and GENTLY pull the strip back a forth a few times under the head.
Easy to do with most 5.25" drives (head is well exposed), very hard to do on 3.5" drives (head is well covered)

DaveDDS wrote on Yesterday, 12:48:

... used space 643MB and free space 780MB. but that is with it now working

Good, 643+780=1423- about right for a 1440k HD drive

A DD drive would have a total of 720k - clearly yours is HD.

... Im running win xp. I dont know how to get a command prompt with it

You were able to figure the size otherwise, so you don't need to now. but FYI (IIRC):

Start -> Programs -> Accessories -> Command Prompt

You usually open the imz or img/ima file in software like WinImage, then use the program to write the data onto the floppy disk. If you try to copy the file directly to the floppy using Windows itself (windows explorer), it won't work, as you're attempting to copy a 1.44MB image file into a file system that IS the 1.44MB (2880 sectors on the disk) file itself, which is 1) missing the FAT and boot sector required for booting and 2) putting the filesystem with it's data into a filesystem, which won't ever work (since the BIOS booting it can't read it, besides it being a SECTOR copy of the disk and not a FILE copy). Usually you'd open it in software like WinImage, navigate to disk and select the option to write it to your inserted floppy drive.

For the 7z archive you'd find the imz/ima/img file inside it, so you'd need to extract that first.

Imz files can't be written directly and need extraction using a tool (or WinImage, which does extract it itself when you open it).

Im from Windows wrote on Today, 09:21:

... Pass! dont understand any of that

Brief history of floppy disks: (you don't need to know this - but it might help understand where things came from)

-

1st floppies were 8" - these were used on mainframes (size of small house) and minicomputers (size of a refrigerator)
These had 77 "tracks" (logical rings where head writes data)
They were at first single sided, then advancement led to both sides being used.
Originally "single density", later "double density" (twice as many data bits per track)

-

Then came 5.25 - almost the same but smaller and only 40 tracks.
Single sided: 180k
Double sided: 360k (this is where IBM 5150 "PC" started)

-

Then "High Density" was developed (Even more data bits per track via different media and more tracks) - appeared in the PC "AT")
5.25 DSDD = 360k (40 track)
5.25 DSHD = 1.2m (80 track)

An ongoing problem with DD<>HD was that there was no physical difference that the drive could detect and some people formatted DDs as HDs and it "sort of" worked but was unreliable.

-

Then disks got even smaller and physically changed: 3.5" format. By this time all were 80 track.
3.5 DSDD: 720k
3.5 DSHD: 1.4m

At this time an ID hole was added so a drive could tell the different between DD and HD disks, this appearsa on HD disks but NOT on DD disks (easy to tell apart visually as well)
I found a good photo showing the differences here: https://www.micropolis.com/support/kb/3.5-inch-floppy-disk

-

I have included much more information about floppy diskette and drive types in my ImageDisk documentation.
ImageDisk can be gotten from "Daves Old Computers"

DaveDDS wrote on Today, 10:29:

Brief history of floppy disks: (you don't need to know this - but it might help understand where things came from)

Just in case anyone is interested in this stuff, I do have a picture showing examples of the actual drive types I mentioned:

http://dunfield.classiccmp.org/misc/index.htm