Law212 wrote on 2026-07-08, 15:12:

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-08, 10:10:

computer hardware will become national security in the near future. […]
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computer hardware will become national security in the near future.

I firmly believe that countries that are unable to make thier own chips will lack future economic growth.

the internet itself is now one of the most important resource of humanity. anything chip wise is extremly important for society.

from the western world , only the united states has a little bit more sense as they have invested and are investing in manufacturing chips. europe done nothing , africa nothing , south america nothing. south korea and china are the only other 2 countries that invest in chips...

also , only 3 main ram manufacturers... almost 0 competition... china is trying to enter the game but even for them with all money in the world is difficult.

the manufacturing process for anything to do with silicon wafers is expensive and requires technology that is not easily accesible to most companies.

basically , we are a bit screwed... we are at the hands of 3 suppliers... they dictate the price and not much u can do about it.

Agree completely. Canada needs to become way more self sufficient but the government is hellbent on selling every bit of the country to foreign governments.

with all the respect to canadians... you govt is horrific and full of idiots. canada will not and CANNOT make any large scale chip production. mostly because not interested. and u are right , ur govt too busy selling the country to the chinese to care about it s people , etc.

Canada has vast natural resources. It's surprising it isn't more of a manufacturing power. I guess being next to the USA will inhibit that.

Errius wrote on 2026-07-08, 18:36:

Canada has vast natural resources. It's surprising it isn't more of a manufacturing power. I guess being next to the USA will inhibit that.

If anything it should enhance our ability to be a manufacturing power. But out gov has other plans

cyclone3d wrote on 2026-07-07, 23:17:

Look up Dr. Web CureIt free. Always updated and spawns randomly generated process names so viruses and other malware cannot block it.

Is this the right website?

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the real download link.

Errius wrote on 2026-07-08, 18:36:

Canada has vast natural resources. It's surprising it isn't more of a manufacturing power. I guess being next to the USA will inhibit that.

Small population will inhibit that, roads, channels and rail limit as well.

This reminds me of the unending b)tchn that was happening during the Canadian wildfires,

Everyone acted as if the 50 people living in the area could combat thousands of square miles of burning forest in areas that lack
Roads, water, freight. It was one thing listening to red hats saying they should put it out or “we” invade, quite another when urban Canadians started pretending like you could just roll over whip it out and the fire would go out.

In terms of Chinese ownership the us has an epidemic of every, mine, farm, etc being 49-51% Chinese owned/invested.
This is a nearly worldwide issue

The only primary export the us has to China is literal peanuts, the Chinese consume more peanuts than the rest of the planet

Forests and human habitation don't mix. This is why you never spend too much money on your hunting lodge out in the woods. It's going to burn down someday so better make it cheap and easy to rebuild.

(Similar logic applies to beach houses. Looking on Google Earth, I see the house I used to spend summer holidays in as a kid has been washed away.)

Errius wrote on 2026-07-08, 23:11:

Forests and human habitation don't mix. This is why you never spend too much money on your hunting lodge out in the woods. It's going to burn down someday so better make it cheap and easy to rebuild.

(Similar logic applies to beach houses. Looking on Google Earth, I see the house I used to spend summer holidays in as a kid has been washed away.)

Nonsense, you build it underground, and ensure you have good fire doors.

to build chip factories is not that simple... hence not manyh countries have them.

also , not many companies in world that have that knowledge... intel , samsung , tsmc, global foundries and a few other smaller for ~"legacy" chips and various chips.

the machinery for these fabs is very expensive and take long times to produce.

chip making is a very delicate and precise endeavor. usa (even though too late) , realised that they would be out of the game if they did not have their own fabs and started pumping lots of money and pressure to build fabs. canada , uk , etc , have neither the money and more important have not got the available pressure to put on anyone to do anything because weak countries. otherwise they would have done it already.

in reality , usa has cards , bot money wise , soft power wise and hard power wise....

i am surprised that the EU as a whole did not set up a fund or excreted any pressure internationally for chip manufacturing. right now , the only powers in the world that can even compare a bit to usa are eu and china... like poles of power in their own parts of the world...

that being said , the eu also run by obsessed far left idiots... so no wonder there...

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-09, 07:21:

to build chip factories is not that simple... hence not manyh countries have them. […]
Show full quote

to build chip factories is not that simple... hence not manyh countries have them.

also , not many companies in world that have that knowledge... intel , samsung , tsmc, global foundries and a few other smaller for ~"legacy" chips and various chips.

the machinery for these fabs is very expensive and take long times to produce.

chip making is a very delicate and precise endeavor. usa (even though too late) , realised that they would be out of the game if they did not have their own fabs and started pumping lots of money and pressure to build fabs. canada , uk , etc , have neither the money and more important have not got the available pressure to put on anyone to do anything because weak countries. otherwise they would have done it already.

in reality , usa has cards , bot money wise , soft power wise and hard power wise....

i am surprised that the EU as a whole did not set up a fund or excreted any pressure internationally for chip manufacturing. right now , the only powers in the world that can even compare a bit to usa are eu and china... like poles of power in their own parts of the world...

that being said , the eu also run by obsessed far left idiots... so no wonder there...

I think the biggest hurdle is the lithography machines, ASML isn't a huge company and they are IIRC the only one making, licencing and servicing the top tier lithography machinery.

Trashbytes wrote on 2026-07-09, 07:25:

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-09, 07:21:

to build chip factories is not that simple... hence not manyh countries have them. […]
Show full quote

to build chip factories is not that simple... hence not manyh countries have them.

also , not many companies in world that have that knowledge... intel , samsung , tsmc, global foundries and a few other smaller for ~"legacy" chips and various chips.

the machinery for these fabs is very expensive and take long times to produce.

chip making is a very delicate and precise endeavor. usa (even though too late) , realised that they would be out of the game if they did not have their own fabs and started pumping lots of money and pressure to build fabs. canada , uk , etc , have neither the money and more important have not got the available pressure to put on anyone to do anything because weak countries. otherwise they would have done it already.

in reality , usa has cards , bot money wise , soft power wise and hard power wise....

i am surprised that the EU as a whole did not set up a fund or excreted any pressure internationally for chip manufacturing. right now , the only powers in the world that can even compare a bit to usa are eu and china... like poles of power in their own parts of the world...

that being said , the eu also run by obsessed far left idiots... so no wonder there...

I think the biggest hurdle is the lithography machines, ASML isn't a huge company and they are IIRC the only one making, licencing and servicing the top tier lithography machinery.

it s even more complex than that.

even the seismic activity in the area is of high importance.

the normal chips u fing in microwas , washing machines , etc , not that hard to produce , but the west still produces almost none. the high end stuff is like 10 times harder to produce...

Honestly, I always considered the current state of affairs with ASML to be a single point of failure in technology.

To be clear, if the whole ASML disappeared overnight, we would still have access to technology that will keep all essential systems running. As @bitzu101 already pointed out, you don't need high tech chips for running almost all equipment that is needed for daily life, for microwaves and washing machines a simple non-complex Microcontroller is enough, in fact if needed can be even produced with discrete transistors and diodes(RTL or DTL logic), and if even basic semi-conductors would be unavailable(Unlikely, as those are a whole degree easier to produce than chips requiring photolithography) relays are also capable of controlling those (Even if these will lower power efficiency, most of the power consumed by those machines are not the control electronics), obviously "smart" appliances might become difficult to produce, but I don't need 24 hour internet access on my washing machine anyway 😁.

So the single point of failure might slow down progress, but it would be not a "civilization ending" kind of event, we will just need to rebuild a capability that we already having but hopefully in a less monopolized manner.

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-09, 08:29:

it s even more complex than that. […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2026-07-09, 07:25:

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-09, 07:21:

to build chip factories is not that simple... hence not manyh countries have them. […]
Show full quote

to build chip factories is not that simple... hence not manyh countries have them.

also , not many companies in world that have that knowledge... intel , samsung , tsmc, global foundries and a few other smaller for ~"legacy" chips and various chips.

the machinery for these fabs is very expensive and take long times to produce.

chip making is a very delicate and precise endeavor. usa (even though too late) , realised that they would be out of the game if they did not have their own fabs and started pumping lots of money and pressure to build fabs. canada , uk , etc , have neither the money and more important have not got the available pressure to put on anyone to do anything because weak countries. otherwise they would have done it already.

in reality , usa has cards , bot money wise , soft power wise and hard power wise....

i am surprised that the EU as a whole did not set up a fund or excreted any pressure internationally for chip manufacturing. right now , the only powers in the world that can even compare a bit to usa are eu and china... like poles of power in their own parts of the world...

that being said , the eu also run by obsessed far left idiots... so no wonder there...

I think the biggest hurdle is the lithography machines, ASML isn't a huge company and they are IIRC the only one making, licencing and servicing the top tier lithography machinery.

it s even more complex than that.

even the seismic activity in the area is of high importance.

the normal chips u fing in microwas , washing machines , etc , not that hard to produce , but the west still produces almost none. the high end stuff is like 10 times harder to produce...

Producing any chip requires specialized raw materials of high purity and even more important creates dangerous and complex byproducts during production.

This is more important than the lithography equipment in western nations because the volume of waste required to justify reprocessing the waste is large and the reprocessing techniques are technically challenging (to do correctly without emission into the environment)

Over seas nobody cares about reprocessing waste streams besides it’s financially required

rmay635703 wrote on 2026-07-09, 13:39:

Producing any chip requires specialized raw materials of high purity and even more important creates dangerous and complex bypro […]
Show full quote

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-09, 08:29:

it s even more complex than that. […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2026-07-09, 07:25:

I think the biggest hurdle is the lithography machines, ASML isn't a huge company and they are IIRC the only one making, licencing and servicing the top tier lithography machinery.

it s even more complex than that.

even the seismic activity in the area is of high importance.

the normal chips u fing in microwas , washing machines , etc , not that hard to produce , but the west still produces almost none. the high end stuff is like 10 times harder to produce...

Producing any chip requires specialized raw materials of high purity and even more important creates dangerous and complex byproducts during production.

This is more important than the lithography equipment in western nations because the volume of waste required to justify reprocessing the waste is large and the reprocessing techniques are technically challenging (to do correctly without emission into the environment)

Over seas nobody cares about reprocessing waste streams besides it’s financially required

the reality is that at the end of the day , the polution , the other issues with enviroment are not going to matter. all that will matter is that you CAN or CANNOT produce that chip for that plane or drone to protect your contry or invade another country. the world is raw and ruthless.

relying on china to import certain chemicals is one of the worst and stupid decisions that the usa has ever made.

Scientists say that the 5 basic human needs are physiological requirements essential for survival: air, water, food, sleep, and shelter. Without these fundamental necessities met, the body cannot function properly, making them the top priority for human existence. I would easily add electricity , internet and microchips. I know there related as one would not function without the other , but these 3 things are so important for any society that does not dance around the fire or hunt mokeys with a bow and arrow.

I think right now , with the exception of USA , there is no other country in the western world that realised how important those 3 things are. and even the usa still has shortfalls. they need to make at least 40 50 powerplants , some of them need to be mamoth projects , they need to be totally self sufficient in making microchips of any kind , and they need to expand the speed of the internet and /or sattelites in space.

the raw materials are so important that counties are easily going to war for them. i would say , that the usa needs to completly shift from importing raw materials to mining them , refining them , etc , no matter the enviromental impact. i also think canada being against the usa is a stupid decision for canada... for they have lots of resources and it s only idiotic to not get along and cooperate with your only neighbour that happens to be the biggest superpower in history. makes 0 sense.

MagefromAntares wrote on 2026-07-09, 11:17:

Honestly, I always considered the current state of affairs with ASML to be a single point of failure in technology.

To be clear, if the whole ASML disappeared overnight, we would still have access to technology that will keep all essential systems running. As @bitzu101 already pointed out, you don't need high tech chips for running almost all equipment that is needed for daily life, for microwaves and washing machines a simple non-complex Microcontroller is enough, in fact if needed can be even produced with discrete transistors and diodes(RTL or DTL logic), and if even basic semi-conductors would be unavailable(Unlikely, as those are a whole degree easier to produce than chips requiring photolithography) relays are also capable of controlling those (Even if these will lower power efficiency, most of the power consumed by those machines are not the control electronics), obviously "smart" appliances might become difficult to produce, but I don't need 24 hour internet access on my washing machine anyway 😁.

So the single point of failure might slow down progress, but it would be not a "civilization ending" kind of event, we will just need to rebuild a capability that we already having but hopefully in a less monopolized manner.

these chips are a lot simpler to make , etc... but you still need to have facilities to make them. you need to have supply chains , etc... this things take years to set up properly.

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-09, 14:15:

MagefromAntares wrote on 2026-07-09, 11:17:

Honestly, I always considered the current state of affairs with ASML to be a single point of failure in technology.

To be clear, if the whole ASML disappeared overnight, we would still have access to technology that will keep all essential systems running. As @bitzu101 already pointed out, you don't need high tech chips for running almost all equipment that is needed for daily life, for microwaves and washing machines a simple non-complex Microcontroller is enough, in fact if needed can be even produced with discrete transistors and diodes(RTL or DTL logic), and if even basic semi-conductors would be unavailable(Unlikely, as those are a whole degree easier to produce than chips requiring photolithography) relays are also capable of controlling those (Even if these will lower power efficiency, most of the power consumed by those machines are not the control electronics), obviously "smart" appliances might become difficult to produce, but I don't need 24 hour internet access on my washing machine anyway 😁.

So the single point of failure might slow down progress, but it would be not a "civilization ending" kind of event, we will just need to rebuild a capability that we already having but hopefully in a less monopolized manner.

these chips are a lot simpler to make , etc... but you still need to have facilities to make them. you need to have supply chains , etc... this things take years to set up properly.

Completely true, but there is also a lot of microcontrollers in stock to use for those applications, even in Hungary most large electrical component stores/warehouses have at least thousands of low level PIC/STM8 microcontrollers in store (and in such case that the shortage becomes an emergency maybe recycling centres would remove and test microcontrollers instead of melting them for the metal) , those would last long enough to start the production of large node size chips, so if the politicians or business reacts quickly enough(and that is the real question, whether they wake up to the situation or wait until it is too late) it can be weathered until basic production is up and running, of course I don't expect near 100% efficiency or success rate for the beginning of a newly opened chip production facility which is set up in a hurry, but I think how grim the situation is depends on how quickly people will react.

I also do note that I would prefer if there would be distributed production capacity available already, and not waiting for the "Titanic to hit the iceberg".

MagefromAntares wrote on 2026-07-09, 14:25:

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-09, 14:15:

MagefromAntares wrote on 2026-07-09, 11:17:

Honestly, I always considered the current state of affairs with ASML to be a single point of failure in technology.

To be clear, if the whole ASML disappeared overnight, we would still have access to technology that will keep all essential systems running. As @bitzu101 already pointed out, you don't need high tech chips for running almost all equipment that is needed for daily life, for microwaves and washing machines a simple non-complex Microcontroller is enough, in fact if needed can be even produced with discrete transistors and diodes(RTL or DTL logic), and if even basic semi-conductors would be unavailable(Unlikely, as those are a whole degree easier to produce than chips requiring photolithography) relays are also capable of controlling those (Even if these will lower power efficiency, most of the power consumed by those machines are not the control electronics), obviously "smart" appliances might become difficult to produce, but I don't need 24 hour internet access on my washing machine anyway 😁.

So the single point of failure might slow down progress, but it would be not a "civilization ending" kind of event, we will just need to rebuild a capability that we already having but hopefully in a less monopolized manner.

these chips are a lot simpler to make , etc... but you still need to have facilities to make them. you need to have supply chains , etc... this things take years to set up properly.

Completely true, but there is also a lot of microcontrollers in stock to use for those applications, even in Hungary most large electrical component stores/warehouses have at least thousands of low level PIC/STM8 microcontrollers in store (and in such case that the shortage becomes an emergency maybe recycling centres would remove and test microcontrollers instead of melting them for the metal) , those would last long enough to start the production of large node size chips, so if the politicians or business reacts quickly enough(and that is the real question, whether they wake up to the situation or wait until it is too late) it can be weathered until basic production is up and running, of course I don't expect near 100% efficiency or success rate for the beginning of a newly opened chip production facility which is set up in a hurry, but I think how grim the situation is depends on how quickly people will react.

I also do note that I would prefer if there would be distributed production capacity available already, and not waiting for the "Titanic to hit the iceberg".

there is no distributed capacity already. capitalism works in the way that all companies went where it is cheapest. hence the issues today.

hungary , romania (my country) , pretty much any country in easter europe is incapable of producing any chips.

think in europe , the only countries that manufacture some chips are Germany, France, Austria, Italy, Ireland, and the Netherlands. and these are not big producers. but they can satisfy the needs of basic chips if need be , because they have supply chains already in place. it is not smart to start from scratch in hungary or any other country that does not have the supply chain.

also , because the EU , you don t need to really.

that being said , the 6 counties that do make microchips in Europe are not producing high end chips on the latest nodes , etc...

addition on europe...

it is OUR shame that ASML (netherlands) is the only producer of high end lithography machines in the world and we make 0 chips with the latest tech , etc...

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-09, 14:40:

there is no distributed capacity already. capitalism works in the way that all companies went where it is cheapest. hence the is […]
Show full quote

MagefromAntares wrote on 2026-07-09, 14:25:

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-09, 14:15:

these chips are a lot simpler to make , etc... but you still need to have facilities to make them. you need to have supply chains , etc... this things take years to set up properly.

Completely true, but there is also a lot of microcontrollers in stock to use for those applications, even in Hungary most large electrical component stores/warehouses have at least thousands of low level PIC/STM8 microcontrollers in store (and in such case that the shortage becomes an emergency maybe recycling centres would remove and test microcontrollers instead of melting them for the metal) , those would last long enough to start the production of large node size chips, so if the politicians or business reacts quickly enough(and that is the real question, whether they wake up to the situation or wait until it is too late) it can be weathered until basic production is up and running, of course I don't expect near 100% efficiency or success rate for the beginning of a newly opened chip production facility which is set up in a hurry, but I think how grim the situation is depends on how quickly people will react.

I also do note that I would prefer if there would be distributed production capacity available already, and not waiting for the "Titanic to hit the iceberg".

there is no distributed capacity already. capitalism works in the way that all companies went where it is cheapest. hence the issues today.

hungary , romania (my country) , pretty much any country in easter europe is incapable of producing any chips.

think in europe , the only countries that manufacture some chips are Germany, France, Austria, Italy, Ireland, and the Netherlands. and these are not big producers. but they can satisfy the needs of basic chips if need be , because they have supply chains already in place. it is not smart to start from scratch in hungary or any other country that does not have the supply chain.

also , because the EU , you don t need to really.

that being said , the 6 counties that do make microchips in Europe are not producing high end chips on the latest nodes , etc...

I would argue against Hungary not having the capability to produce chips, we don't have it right now, but we had it in the past(Mikroelektronikai Vállalat(MEV)), we lost it on 1986-May-26(It is also a good example why centralizing it even in a single country is a bad idea) and the MSZMP(The then ruling party) decided to not rebuild it, I'm almost 100% sure that Romania also had something similar, if a nation were capable of producing something in the past, then I think it should be able to produce it now, I don't think that the resource allocation around the world changed so much that it would be impossible to rebuild the supply chains and the facilities.

MagefromAntares wrote on 2026-07-09, 14:55:

bitzu101 wrote on 2026-07-09, 14:40:

there is no distributed capacity already. capitalism works in the way that all companies went where it is cheapest. hence the is […]
Show full quote

MagefromAntares wrote on 2026-07-09, 14:25:

Completely true, but there is also a lot of microcontrollers in stock to use for those applications, even in Hungary most large electrical component stores/warehouses have at least thousands of low level PIC/STM8 microcontrollers in store (and in such case that the shortage becomes an emergency maybe recycling centres would remove and test microcontrollers instead of melting them for the metal) , those would last long enough to start the production of large node size chips, so if the politicians or business reacts quickly enough(and that is the real question, whether they wake up to the situation or wait until it is too late) it can be weathered until basic production is up and running, of course I don't expect near 100% efficiency or success rate for the beginning of a newly opened chip production facility which is set up in a hurry, but I think how grim the situation is depends on how quickly people will react.

I also do note that I would prefer if there would be distributed production capacity available already, and not waiting for the "Titanic to hit the iceberg".

there is no distributed capacity already. capitalism works in the way that all companies went where it is cheapest. hence the issues today.

hungary , romania (my country) , pretty much any country in easter europe is incapable of producing any chips.

think in europe , the only countries that manufacture some chips are Germany, France, Austria, Italy, Ireland, and the Netherlands. and these are not big producers. but they can satisfy the needs of basic chips if need be , because they have supply chains already in place. it is not smart to start from scratch in hungary or any other country that does not have the supply chain.

also , because the EU , you don t need to really.

that being said , the 6 counties that do make microchips in Europe are not producing high end chips on the latest nodes , etc...

I would argue against Hungary not having the capability to produce chips, we don't have it right now, but we had it in the past(Mikroelektronikai Vállalat(MEV)), we lost it on 1986-May-26(It is also a good example why centralizing it even in a single country is a bad idea) and the MSZMP(The then ruling party) decided to not rebuild it, I'm almost 100% sure that Romania also had something similar, if a nation were capable of producing something in the past, then I think it should be able to produce it now, I don't think that the resource allocation around the world changed so much that it would be impossible to rebuild the supply chains and the facilities.

the costs would be way to high. the level of competence of the people is almost 0.

not saying it s impossible , but for sure it s improbable and if started would cost staggering amounts of money and for countries like hungary and romania , just not feasable.

probably the only logical thing to do is to invite a company that does chips already and give them huge benefits to set up production in your country. but even the, lots of money spent , requires supply chains , requires talent , requires people from abroad to be hired , requires local training , etc... it s so complex... we in the east struggle with idiotic/stupid people in power , huge corruption , we are so far away from such things... have u seen certain villages in romania? with no asphalt on the street and no rusnning water? and u want us to make chips? 🤣

Shponglefan wrote on 2025-12-22, 14:26:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2025-12-22, 07:05:

By chance, I built my latest PC a few months before this went down. Doesn't look like I'll be upgrading it any time soon.

Same. Really glad I upgraded when I did.

Same, and glad I went all out.