bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 12:17:

LSS10999 wrote on Yesterday, 12:09:

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 11:57:

Why would a Creative product have a Realtek chip? Makes no sense. Creative make their own chips to rival Realtek innit?

It was already a known fact that Creative's advanced audio effects don't necessarily require Creative hardware to function, as demonstrated by X-Fi MB which serves as a software enhancement on top of onboard audio.

Sound Core3D is Creative's own HDA solution.

Even still , why on earth use a chip different to yours? To give the competition more money? Struggling to see the logic behind this...

Even if cheaper... You still would not do it because you don t want to be seen as a cheap product manufacturer , you want to be seen as the premium , own hardware manufacturer that people pay good money for.

The Lynx E22 costs € 875,00 EX VAT, and it's built using a general - purpose FPGA from Xilinx (now AMD).
It almost certainly uses open-source IP for the PCI Express bus.
And Lynx Studio doesn't sweat that at all.

To have your own chips, you need your own engineers. Custom silicon is insanely expensive.

By the way, loading headphone profiles is an awesome feature.
Every time I mention it in an EAX thread, things almost reach the point of a ban. 😀
But nothing was stopping them from implementing it 15 years ago, even back in the X-Fi/Audigy days.
But Creative is just being Creative...
Though the question arises about headphone measurements:
Does Creative measure them themselves, or do they "borrow" them from reviewers?

shevalier wrote on Yesterday, 12:49:

https://www.profmbroadcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Pro-FM-Broadcast-Lynx-Studio-Technology-E22-PCI-Express-Soundcard-02.w […]
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bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 12:17:

LSS10999 wrote on Yesterday, 12:09:

It was already a known fact that Creative's advanced audio effects don't necessarily require Creative hardware to function, as demonstrated by X-Fi MB which serves as a software enhancement on top of onboard audio.

Sound Core3D is Creative's own HDA solution.

Even still , why on earth use a chip different to yours? To give the competition more money? Struggling to see the logic behind this...

Even if cheaper... You still would not do it because you don t want to be seen as a cheap product manufacturer , you want to be seen as the premium , own hardware manufacturer that people pay good money for.

The Lynx E22 costs € 875,00 EX VAT, and it's built using a general - purpose FPGA from Xilinx (now AMD).
It almost certainly uses open-source IP for the PCI Express bus.
And Lynx Studio doesn't sweat that at all.

To have your own chips, you need your own engineers. Custom silicon is insanely expensive.

But Creative have their own silicon and engineers already... They are the most popular brand of sound cards in the world. They have made their own chips for over 30 years. And they still make their own designed chips today 😀)

That is why i do not understand why they would use a Realtek chip. I certainly would not buy one.

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 13:01:

shevalier wrote on Yesterday, 12:49:

https://www.profmbroadcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Pro-FM-Broadcast-Lynx-Studio-Technology-E22-PCI-Express-Soundcard-02.w […]
Show full quote

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 12:17:

Even still , why on earth use a chip different to yours? To give the competition more money? Struggling to see the logic behind this...

Even if cheaper... You still would not do it because you don t want to be seen as a cheap product manufacturer , you want to be seen as the premium , own hardware manufacturer that people pay good money for.

The Lynx E22 costs € 875,00 EX VAT, and it's built using a general - purpose FPGA from Xilinx (now AMD).
It almost certainly uses open-source IP for the PCI Express bus.
And Lynx Studio doesn't sweat that at all.

To have your own chips, you need your own engineers. Custom silicon is insanely expensive.

But Creative have their own silicon and engineers already... They are the most popular brand of sound cards in the world. They have made their own chips for over 30 years. And they still make their own designed chips today 😀)

That is why i do not understand why they would use a Realtek chip. I certainly would not buy one.

The Creative Sound Core3D was officially unveiled on May 31, 2011.
That is, 15 years ago. In 3 years, it would already be old enough to buy alcohol in most countries around the world. 😀
Yes, 15 years ago they had engineers who knew how to do custom silicon.
Yes, that's the exact same CA0132 chip that the Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D PCIe (SB1350) was originally based on.
Super X-Fi (SXFI) Ultra DSP is literally Creative's last custom silicon from back in 2018. They clearly couldn't keep up with the cost and nanometer race after that.

shevalier wrote on Yesterday, 13:14:

The Creative Sound Core3D was officially unveiled on May 31, 2011. That is, 15 years ago. In 3 years, it would already be old en […]
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bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 13:01:

shevalier wrote on Yesterday, 12:49:

https://www.profmbroadcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/Pro-FM-Broadcast-Lynx-Studio-Technology-E22-PCI-Express-Soundcard-02.w […]
Show full quote

The Lynx E22 costs € 875,00 EX VAT, and it's built using a general - purpose FPGA from Xilinx (now AMD).
It almost certainly uses open-source IP for the PCI Express bus.
And Lynx Studio doesn't sweat that at all.

To have your own chips, you need your own engineers. Custom silicon is insanely expensive.

But Creative have their own silicon and engineers already... They are the most popular brand of sound cards in the world. They have made their own chips for over 30 years. And they still make their own designed chips today 😀)

That is why i do not understand why they would use a Realtek chip. I certainly would not buy one.

The Creative Sound Core3D was officially unveiled on May 31, 2011.
That is, 15 years ago. In 3 years, it would already be old enough to buy alcohol in most countries around the world. 😀
Yes, 15 years ago they had engineers who knew how to do custom silicon.
Yes, that's the exact same CA0132 chip that the Creative Sound Blaster Recon3D PCIe (SB1350) was originally based on.
Super X-Fi (SXFI) Ultra DSP is literally Creative's last custom silicon from back in 2018. They clearly couldn't keep up with the cost and nanometer race after that.

Such a shame... Specially because they have the Sound Core 3d chip. They can easily improve on that chip and be better than Realtek.

I'd love to see sound cards make a comeback but offer something worth buying one for. I connected my very old Creative Labs 5.1 surrounds sound set up which I bought in the 90s to my modern PC and I love the sound out of it. I was playing Robocop Rogue City and I loved that I could hear bullets hitting the wall behind me on either side. Not to mention music and movies get nice bass and left right and center channels. Though thats just onboard audio

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 13:53:

I'd love to see sound cards make a comeback but offer something worth buying one for. I connected my very old Creative Labs 5.1 surrounds sound set up which I bought in the 90s to my modern PC and I love the sound out of it. I was playing Robocop Rogue City and I loved that I could hear bullets hitting the wall behind me on either side. Not to mention music and movies get nice bass and left right and center channels. Though thats just onboard audio

I don t see why they went away so much. The integrated sound on the mobos is very poor in 95% of them. And the rest of 5% is not special at all.

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 14:04:

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 13:53:

I'd love to see sound cards make a comeback but offer something worth buying one for. I connected my very old Creative Labs 5.1 surrounds sound set up which I bought in the 90s to my modern PC and I love the sound out of it. I was playing Robocop Rogue City and I loved that I could hear bullets hitting the wall behind me on either side. Not to mention music and movies get nice bass and left right and center channels. Though thats just onboard audio

I don t see why they went away so much. The integrated sound on the mobos is very poor in 95% of them. And the rest of 5% is not special at all.

Half of the integrated audio codecs on motherboards are now USB.
What is stopping someone from just getting a decent USB DAC from SMSL or Topping?

shevalier wrote on Yesterday, 14:12:

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 14:04:

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 13:53:

I'd love to see sound cards make a comeback but offer something worth buying one for. I connected my very old Creative Labs 5.1 surrounds sound set up which I bought in the 90s to my modern PC and I love the sound out of it. I was playing Robocop Rogue City and I loved that I could hear bullets hitting the wall behind me on either side. Not to mention music and movies get nice bass and left right and center channels. Though thats just onboard audio

I don t see why they went away so much. The integrated sound on the mobos is very poor in 95% of them. And the rest of 5% is not special at all.

Half of the integrated audio codecs on motherboards are now USB.
What is stopping someone from just getting a decent USB DAC from SMSL or Topping?

no clue. i don t even see the point of a usb connection or any outside of the case sound card. Why on earth would i waste my desk space when i can have a internal card.

but then again , i am old school. I still like my sound cards , my 5.1 speaker system. But I see most of the stuff i like it s dying.

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 14:23:

shevalier wrote on Yesterday, 14:12:

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 14:04:

I don t see why they went away so much. The integrated sound on the mobos is very poor in 95% of them. And the rest of 5% is not special at all.

Half of the integrated audio codecs on motherboards are now USB.
What is stopping someone from just getting a decent USB DAC from SMSL or Topping?

no clue. i don t even see the point of a usb connection or any outside of the case sound card. Why on earth would i waste my desk space when i can have a internal card.

but then again , i am old school. I still like my sound cards , my 5.1 speaker system. But I see most of the stuff i like it s dying.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/inde … p-review.68800/
30$

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 14:04:

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 13:53:

I'd love to see sound cards make a comeback but offer something worth buying one for. I connected my very old Creative Labs 5.1 surrounds sound set up which I bought in the 90s to my modern PC and I love the sound out of it. I was playing Robocop Rogue City and I loved that I could hear bullets hitting the wall behind me on either side. Not to mention music and movies get nice bass and left right and center channels. Though thats just onboard audio

I don t see why they went away so much. The integrated sound on the mobos is very poor in 95% of them. And the rest of 5% is not special at all.

OK, but is there enough difference in the small amount of sounds cards out there now that it would be worth buying a dedicated sound card?

shevalier wrote on Yesterday, 14:34:

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 14:23:

shevalier wrote on Yesterday, 14:12:

Half of the integrated audio codecs on motherboards are now USB.
What is stopping someone from just getting a decent USB DAC from SMSL or Topping?

no clue. i don t even see the point of a usb connection or any outside of the case sound card. Why on earth would i waste my desk space when i can have a internal card.

but then again , i am old school. I still like my sound cards , my 5.1 speaker system. But I see most of the stuff i like it s dying.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/inde … p-review.68800/
30$

Yeah... i really do not want that.

Funny , how computer sound was more difficult to realise than video and now it s dies down almost completly...

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 14:35:

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 14:04:

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 13:53:

I'd love to see sound cards make a comeback but offer something worth buying one for. I connected my very old Creative Labs 5.1 surrounds sound set up which I bought in the 90s to my modern PC and I love the sound out of it. I was playing Robocop Rogue City and I loved that I could hear bullets hitting the wall behind me on either side. Not to mention music and movies get nice bass and left right and center channels. Though thats just onboard audio

I don t see why they went away so much. The integrated sound on the mobos is very poor in 95% of them. And the rest of 5% is not special at all.

OK, but is there enough difference in the small amount of sounds cards out there now that it would be worth buying a dedicated sound card?

It is a tradition that all motherboard manufacturers simply do not know how to implement an audio codec properly.
Literally all of them, always.
They know how to pick an expensive one and garnish it with pretty yellow capacitors. They manage to ruin even the ESS SABRE9018.
But
Right now, there are a bunch of dongles that haven't been ruined, even by severe cost-cutting and the developers' clumsiness.
In the post above, I mentioned one like that for 30 $.

Internal sound cards are practically non-existent now and will be completely gone soon. Creative's move to a PCIe-to-USB bridge hints at this.
So it's not a problem. Anyone who wants better quality will easily find something for themselves.

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 14:35:

OK, but is there enough difference in the small amount of sounds cards out there now that it would be worth buying a dedicated sound card?

One reason I'm still using internal sound cards is because of ground loop interference. I get noisy interference with motherboard audio, but using Sound Blaster Z sound cards the interference is minimized to the point it's not audible.

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 14:35:

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 14:04:

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 13:53:

I'd love to see sound cards make a comeback but offer something worth buying one for. I connected my very old Creative Labs 5.1 surrounds sound set up which I bought in the 90s to my modern PC and I love the sound out of it. I was playing Robocop Rogue City and I loved that I could hear bullets hitting the wall behind me on either side. Not to mention music and movies get nice bass and left right and center channels. Though thats just onboard audio

I don t see why they went away so much. The integrated sound on the mobos is very poor in 95% of them. And the rest of 5% is not special at all.

OK, but is there enough difference in the small amount of sounds cards out there now that it would be worth buying a dedicated sound card?

For me it is. 100%.

I have a high end mobo , X870E and the onboard sound is horrible. But then again , i always had a dedicated sound card. For the last years I had a SB Z SE and since last year I got a AE-7.

The sound is different. It does sound much better. At least for me. I would never use the integrated sound. Not in my modern PC and not in my retro ones as well... And funny enough , all my retro pc's have onboard sound as well... But i put in a dedicated sound in all of them.... One has a ESS Solo 1 , one has a SB Audigy 2 ZS , one has a Aureal Vortex 2 and one has a SB X-Fi.

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 15:01:

For me it is. 100%. […]
Show full quote

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 14:35:

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 14:04:

I don t see why they went away so much. The integrated sound on the mobos is very poor in 95% of them. And the rest of 5% is not special at all.

OK, but is there enough difference in the small amount of sounds cards out there now that it would be worth buying a dedicated sound card?

For me it is. 100%.

I have a high end mobo , X870E and the onboard sound is horrible. But then again , i always had a dedicated sound card. For the last years I had a SB Z SE and since last year I got a AE-7.

The sound is different. It does sound much better. At least for me. I would never use the integrated sound. Not in my modern PC and not in my retro ones as well... And funny enough , all my retro pc's have onboard sound as well... But i put in a dedicated sound in all of them.... One has a ESS Solo 1 , one has a SB Audigy 2 ZS , one has a Aureal Vortex 2 and one has a SB X-Fi.

All my retro PCs have sound cards, but I have never had one for modern machines. I never really noticed them having bad sound, but i haven ever compared it to a dedicated SC on a modern machine. I was thinking of getting one recently but most people said there is no real noticeable difference to the average person.

shevalier wrote on Yesterday, 14:57:

It is a tradition that all motherboard manufacturers simply do not know how to implement an audio codec properly. Literally all […]
Show full quote

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 14:35:

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 14:04:

I don t see why they went away so much. The integrated sound on the mobos is very poor in 95% of them. And the rest of 5% is not special at all.

OK, but is there enough difference in the small amount of sounds cards out there now that it would be worth buying a dedicated sound card?

It is a tradition that all motherboard manufacturers simply do not know how to implement an audio codec properly.
Literally all of them, always.
They know how to pick an expensive one and garnish it with pretty yellow capacitors. They manage to ruin even the ESS SABRE9018.
But
Right now, there are a bunch of dongles that haven't been ruined, even by severe cost-cutting and the developers' clumsiness.
In the post above, I mentioned one like that for 30 $.

Internal sound cards are practically non-existent now and will be completely gone soon. Creative's move to a PCIe-to-USB bridge hints at this.
So it's not a problem. Anyone who wants better quality will easily find something for themselves.

Sorry , does the $30 usb thing have a dedicated sound chip? Does it have a headphone amp? It seems very improbable that a usb cable like the one you showed in that link has all the features of a internal/dedicated sound card. I also see only one jack connection , where as my system needs 3 jacks to plug in all the speakers. Also , my AE 7 , has dedicated hardware for 5.1 system , not software , etc...

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 15:18:

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 15:01:

For me it is. 100%. […]
Show full quote

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 14:35:

OK, but is there enough difference in the small amount of sounds cards out there now that it would be worth buying a dedicated sound card?

For me it is. 100%.

I have a high end mobo , X870E and the onboard sound is horrible. But then again , i always had a dedicated sound card. For the last years I had a SB Z SE and since last year I got a AE-7.

The sound is different. It does sound much better. At least for me. I would never use the integrated sound. Not in my modern PC and not in my retro ones as well... And funny enough , all my retro pc's have onboard sound as well... But i put in a dedicated sound in all of them.... One has a ESS Solo 1 , one has a SB Audigy 2 ZS , one has a Aureal Vortex 2 and one has a SB X-Fi.

All my retro PCs have sound cards, but I have never had one for modern machines. I never really noticed them having bad sound, but i haven ever compared it to a dedicated SC on a modern machine. I was thinking of getting one recently but most people said there is no real noticeable difference to the average person.

A Sound Blaster X-FI from 2005 has better sound than any of the integrated crap that they put into any modern board. It also has more features and software.

The newer (2011) Sound Core is even better. But it s a shame then did not make another one after that. But even so , it s 15 years old and much better than any realtek garbage.

Creative have gone in the crapper lately and they will dissapear because they went the cheap way and using other chips rather than redisigning a new chip from scratch. It will be the end of them. Once a company goes cheap , then they go bust.

So what do you think about this one?
Creative Sound Blaster Z SE PCIe High-Performance Gaming and Entertainment Soundcard | Sound Core3D 116dB Signal-to-Noise Ratio (70SB150000004)

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 15:34:

So what do you think about this one?
Creative Sound Blaster Z SE PCIe High-Performance Gaming and Entertainment Soundcard | Sound Core3D 116dB Signal-to-Noise Ratio (70SB150000004)

I had that card and done me very well for over 4 years. very good card. I sold it on ebay for 40 pounds or so. You can probably find one at a similar price. It has a dedicated chip , it s a very good card for the money. Much better than that Audigy Fx V2 crap they now sell at the bottom end.

bitzu101 wrote on Yesterday, 15:20:

shevalier wrote on Yesterday, 14:57:

It is a tradition that all motherboard manufacturers simply do not know how to implement an audio codec properly. Literally all […]
Show full quote

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 14:35:

OK, but is there enough difference in the small amount of sounds cards out there now that it would be worth buying a dedicated sound card?

It is a tradition that all motherboard manufacturers simply do not know how to implement an audio codec properly.
Literally all of them, always.
They know how to pick an expensive one and garnish it with pretty yellow capacitors. They manage to ruin even the ESS SABRE9018.
But
Right now, there are a bunch of dongles that haven't been ruined, even by severe cost-cutting and the developers' clumsiness.
In the post above, I mentioned one like that for 30 $.

Internal sound cards are practically non-existent now and will be completely gone soon. Creative's move to a PCIe-to-USB bridge hints at this.
So it's not a problem. Anyone who wants better quality will easily find something for themselves.

Sorry , does the $30 usb thing have a dedicated sound chip? Does it have a headphone amp? It seems very improbable that a usb cable like the one you showed in that link has all the features of a internal/dedicated sound card. I also see only one jack connection , where as my system needs 3 jacks to plug in all the speakers. Also , my AE 7 , has dedicated hardware for 5.1 system , not software , etc...

Well, if you don't consider the top-tier DAC CS43131 from Cirrus Logic (whose DACs are used in your own X-Fi, just a bit more budget-friendly and older), then you have vastly inflated expectations. 😀
Besides, it's very hard to mess up when implementing the final device.

Shponglefan wrote on Yesterday, 15:00:

One reason I'm still using internal sound cards is because of ground loop interference. I get noisy interference with motherboard audio, but using Sound Blaster Z sound cards the interference is minimized to the point it's not audible.

https://jdslabs.com/product/synapse/
USB galvanic isolator.
Now they have gone mainstream and are no longer exotic. And they radically solve the ground loop problem for external DACs.