How would HBM modules even work? Right now HMB is on its own special fabric that is tied directly to the CPU.

I don't see how the signal integrity would ever be good enough if HBM was stuck on replaceable modules.

It would be extremely expensive and very unreliable as a replaceable type module.

The only feasible option really would be to replace the CPU or GPU module that had HBM built-in. That would be extremely expensive any time you wanted to upgrade capacity.

Small, directly adjacent to cpu, vertical 'thru package' pin header.

They already work as a stacked bga package.

I'm suggesting that the interposer just needs a compact LIF socket, instead of a BGA. Then the HBM packages can be replaced.

wierd_w wrote on 2026-07-27, 17:15:

Small, directly adjacent to cpu, vertical 'thru package' pin header. […]
Show full quote

Small, directly adjacent to cpu, vertical 'thru package' pin header.

They already work as a stacked bga package.

I'm suggesting that the interposer just needs a compact LIF socket, instead of a BGA. Then the HBM packages can be replaced.

Or they use the CAMM module socket and place it adjacent to the CPU so it has the shortest travel path, this would mean a new motherboard format to accommodate the CAMM socket. The beauty of CAMM is that it can be used for any type of memory and would allow water block cooling too. Having HBM as system memory would also allow IGPUs and on board GPUs to use it as high speed/bandwidth VRAM which could allow even better IGPUs than what we currently have. I feel we are just now reaching a point where IGPUs have become more than sufficient for the majority of PC users that it wouldn't take very much extra performance to make them worth having over a discrete GPU and VRAM is a big stumbling block as DDR5 is still too slow for graphics hardware.

You would lose some speed and bandwidth not having the HBM on the same interposer as the CPU but I doubt itll be significant enough to affect general computing.

Not sure how others here feel about CAMM but I like it, it offers a good way forward and plenty of flexibility.

Trashbytes wrote on 2026-07-27, 21:49:

Or they use the CAMM module socket and place it adjacent to the CPU so it has the shortest travel path, this would mean a new mo […]
Show full quote

wierd_w wrote on 2026-07-27, 17:15:

Small, directly adjacent to cpu, vertical 'thru package' pin header. […]
Show full quote

Small, directly adjacent to cpu, vertical 'thru package' pin header.

They already work as a stacked bga package.

I'm suggesting that the interposer just needs a compact LIF socket, instead of a BGA. Then the HBM packages can be replaced.

Or they use the CAMM module socket and place it adjacent to the CPU so it has the shortest travel path, this would mean a new motherboard format to accommodate the CAMM socket. The beauty of CAMM is that it can be used for any type of memory and would allow water block cooling too. Having HBM as system memory would also allow IGPUs and on board GPUs to use it as high speed/bandwidth VRAM which could allow even better IGPUs than what we currently have. I feel we are just now reaching a point where IGPUs have become more than sufficient for the majority of PC users that it wouldn't take very much extra performance to make them worth having over a discrete GPU and VRAM is a big stumbling block as DDR5 is still too slow for graphics hardware.

You would lose some speed and bandwidth not having the HBM on the same interposer as the CPU but I doubt itll be significant enough to affect general computing.

Not sure how others here feel about CAMM but I like it, it offers a good way forward and plenty of flexibility.

Again, I dont care about the shape. To me, CAMM is just a novel compact LIF socket, with a circuit board hanging off of it.

the main architectural advance with HBM is that total travel time of circuit traces are minimized, by having the shortest possible paths. that means having the bus go UPWARD, with stacked chips.

the stacks themselves just need to be what's modular. Something like CAMM's socket would be fine, IMO. It just needs to be a socket, and not "LULZ, We soldered it directly on! Tee Hee!"

As long as it is some kind of socket, and it is standardized, I will be happy.

wierd_w wrote on 2026-07-27, 22:14:

Again, I dont care about the shape. To me, CAMM is just a novel compact LIF socket, with a circuit board hanging off of it. […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2026-07-27, 21:49:

Or they use the CAMM module socket and place it adjacent to the CPU so it has the shortest travel path, this would mean a new mo […]
Show full quote

wierd_w wrote on 2026-07-27, 17:15:

Small, directly adjacent to cpu, vertical 'thru package' pin header. […]
Show full quote

Small, directly adjacent to cpu, vertical 'thru package' pin header.

They already work as a stacked bga package.

I'm suggesting that the interposer just needs a compact LIF socket, instead of a BGA. Then the HBM packages can be replaced.

Or they use the CAMM module socket and place it adjacent to the CPU so it has the shortest travel path, this would mean a new motherboard format to accommodate the CAMM socket. The beauty of CAMM is that it can be used for any type of memory and would allow water block cooling too. Having HBM as system memory would also allow IGPUs and on board GPUs to use it as high speed/bandwidth VRAM which could allow even better IGPUs than what we currently have. I feel we are just now reaching a point where IGPUs have become more than sufficient for the majority of PC users that it wouldn't take very much extra performance to make them worth having over a discrete GPU and VRAM is a big stumbling block as DDR5 is still too slow for graphics hardware.

You would lose some speed and bandwidth not having the HBM on the same interposer as the CPU but I doubt itll be significant enough to affect general computing.

Not sure how others here feel about CAMM but I like it, it offers a good way forward and plenty of flexibility.

Again, I dont care about the shape. To me, CAMM is just a novel compact LIF socket, with a circuit board hanging off of it.

the main architectural advance with HBM is that total travel time of circuit traces are minimized, by having the shortest possible paths. that means having the bus go UPWARD, with stacked chips.

the stacks themselves just need to be what's modular. Something like CAMM's socket would be fine, IMO. It just needs to be a socket, and not "LULZ, We soldered it directly on! Tee Hee!"

As long as it is some kind of socket, and it is standardized, I will be happy.

Playing Devils Advocate here. I could see that if they standardised HBM 3 as normal system memory and it came as 64 Gig units ...I don't actually have an issue with it being soldered directly to the motherboard next to the CPU. Naturally I would still want unsoldered boards to be available for power users and DIY system builders, but for many people 64 Gig of HBM 3 on the motherboard would be more than sufficient and it would lower production costs.

Ok advocate locked away

Like you I too want to see a standardised memory socket that isn't DIMM socket based, DIMM needs to die as a socket standard already.

An alternative to a flat interposer could be a 'reimagining' of Slot1 style CPU.

CPU and cooler goes on one side, HBM stack goes on the other side, 'functionally' right on the back side of the CPU's socket thru-holes. This retains 'minimum travel distance', keeps both sides reachable, and lets your motherboard still have a user upgradable formfactor.

It would just have all the same warts slot1 had.

wierd_w wrote on 2026-07-29, 02:21:

An alternative to a flat interposer could be a 'reimagining' of Slot1 style CPU.

CPU and cooler goes on one side, HBM stack goes on the other side, 'functionally' right on the back side of the CPU's socket thru-holes. This retains 'minimum travel distance', keeps both sides reachable, and lets your motherboard still have a user upgradable formfactor.

It would just have all the same warts slot1 had.

Long ago I saw machines that had the cpu on top and on the bottom of the board opposite there was a chip soldered underneath, considered the otherwise low circuit density it was probably there to reduce travel distance and noise.

Also encountered a machine with a through hole in the motherboard under the CPU that had a heatsync contacting the bottom of the chip with the fan on the bottom of the case.

If we wanted to get creative a mechanism to install ram as close as possible wouldn’t be hard, with the new Taj Mahal case designs access to both sides of a vertical board could be made less painful.

In other news:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.techpo ... n-q3%3famp

Dimos wrote on Today, 00:07:

In other news:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.techpo ... n-q3%3famp

Wonderful.

My X570 Aorus Elite is still going strong after 7 years.

I think I will bump up the speed of my intake fans a bit to keep things juuuuust a little bit cooler and more comfy. We're in this one for the long haul.

Ozzuneoj wrote on Today, 15:35:

Wonderful.

My X570 Aorus Elite is still going strong after 7 years.

I think I will bump up the speed of my intake fans a bit to keep things juuuuust a little bit cooler and more comfy. We're in this one for the long haul.

That's how I'm managing my P35, X38, X58, Z77, X79, and Z97 boards. I'm stock full of DDR2 and DDR3 RAM and no overclocking!

I'm driving an AM4 board, that I packed with ram before the madness.

Looks like i'll be driving it for a long time.

Ozzuneoj wrote on Today, 15:35:

Wonderful. […]
Show full quote

Dimos wrote on Today, 00:07:

In other news:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.techpo ... n-q3%3famp

Wonderful.

My X570 Aorus Elite is still going strong after 7 years.

I think I will bump up the speed of my intake fans a bit to keep things juuuuust a little bit cooler and more comfy. We're in this one for the long haul.

Heh, I didn't realize x570 was that old. I didn't upgrade till a decent while later when I got a pretty good deal on a 5950X when it was on sale on Amazon.

Might be time for me to grab a newer used board, CPU and RAM.