rmay635703 wrote on 2026-09-02, 21:38:

For now, their goal is to effectively make high end computing out of reach outside business To force people into low powered de […]
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gerry wrote on 2026-09-02, 07:53:

We could remind ourselves a new PC is still often cheaper (after inflation and as % of average salary) than 20-30 years ago at each market segment (eg entry level, budget, office, gaming etc) - but after years of low prices seeing a computer with the exact same spec actually increasing in price over time

For now, their goal is to effectively make high end computing out of reach outside business
To force people into low powered devices that require renting gpu power.

I’m guessing it won’t turn out well

Its not even about GPUs, its about not allowing the average joe to own enough personal compute at home to run their own AI or for a coordinated group of like minded individuals to run a rogue AI LLM and agents that can cause mass disruption.

The 5000 series was far too good at AI, ram and by extension storage was also far to cheap and plentiful, it was a big worry for them, still is.

So call me a nut job but the fact GPUs, Ram and storage have all increased to pricing that the average joe simply cannot afford or cant afford to buy large amounts of, makes perfect sense. They need to control who is running local AI agents and LLMs and the only feasible way was to price pretty much everyone out of the market.

They keep control of the AI market and force people to rent compute from them so they can track who and what its being used by and for.

Its all for naught however as Apple quite frankly stole their thunder .. their M4/M5 series Mac Pros are downright amazing at running local AI and don't even need a GPU to do it.

cyclone3d wrote on 2026-09-02, 20:59:

SiBurning wrote on 2026-09-02, 09:49:

I just bought a cheap old box (NOS) for under $300us. I upgraded my old servers to build a larger file server, so in the mean ti […]
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I just bought a cheap old box (NOS) for under $300us. I upgraded my old servers to build a larger file server, so in the mean time I got this one mostly to hosts the printer. The server's done now and back in that same space, but it's linux so it probably won't have all the (proprietary) drivers, and I'd rather have something small turned on rather than turn on that 200W at idle (400W when starting up) space heating beast.

Beelink SER3 Mini PC, AMD Ryzen 3 3200U, 16G DDR4, 500GB NVMe M.2 SSD, W11 Pro, WiFi5 +BT5.0+1000M LAN, CPU up to 3.5GHz, Radeon Vega 3 Graphics 3core 1200 MHz GPU, Micro PC 4K@60Hz Dual Display 2*HDMI

It's enough for me, even serving as a secondary computer in that space. But I feel for people doing graphics. One fella was doing 3D conversions of old films, and the minimum video cards runs $8000us now. Who am I kidding? I bet it's already $10,000us. Was $4000us a few months ago. Either was too rich for me. Same if you need the newest games, though from what I hear a few years old box is still more than enough.

BTW, that beelink is still available so there are bargains to be had in 3-5 year old NOS.

What video cards does that program require?

I can't personally answer that. I learned about it through another forum that ultimately leads back to a discussion on AVS Forums: A New Software Allows Proper 2d to 3d Conversions using Depth Maps and AI

They talk about cards like the RTX 6000 Ada 48GB VRAM. You'll find mention of people trying this on cards like a RTX 3060 12GB VRAM, but it's an enormous waste of time unless you'll live 1,000,000 years, and it can't do 4k. OTOH, you probably can use one if you lower your expectations.

I checked the policy here and it seems okay to post this.

I learned about the 3D conversions during the Halloween Horror Film Challenge (where we watch horror films all through October leading up to Halloween) on The Classic Horror Film Board (hosted on tapatalk these days). The guy posted images from his own conversions there, but he also has a dedicated thread with more images: Desktop 3D Conversions using AI. You need red/blue glasses to see them. His thread is a lot more acessible than the AVS thread, but also covers less. BTW, my nick & avatar are the same there as here.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2026/09/03/xbox-c … gaming-changes/

Beginning in November, we’re changing how cloud gaming is included with XBOX Game Pass. […]
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Beginning in November, we’re changing how cloud gaming is included with XBOX Game Pass.

Game Pass plans will include a set number of cloud gaming hours each month:

Game Pass Ultimate: 15 hours
Game Pass Premium: 10 hours
Game Pass Essential: 5 hours

We’re introducing this model because the cost of providing cloud gaming grows as more people use it and play for longer

🤣

DosFreak wrote on 2026-09-03, 22:48:

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2026/09/03/xbox-c … gaming-changes/

Beginning in November, we’re changing how cloud gaming is included with XBOX Game Pass. […]
Show full quote

Beginning in November, we’re changing how cloud gaming is included with XBOX Game Pass.

Game Pass plans will include a set number of cloud gaming hours each month:

Game Pass Ultimate: 15 hours
Game Pass Premium: 10 hours
Game Pass Essential: 5 hours

Only 15 hours a month for their so-called "ultimate" tier? The hell?

I do about 15 hours of gaming in a single week.

They looked at the numbers for their video game subscription service, and the numbers clearly told them that they need to stop serving (core) gamers with their video game subscription service.

A marvellous example of corporate logic, in other words.

That's ridiculous. I don't game, but I know some people who game continuously, hundreds of hours per month. I'm sure the average among gamers is a LOT more that the peanuts of 15 hours / month. Many probably do that in a single day.

As usual, an insult from these rapacious companies. A LOT of gamers are going to be seriously pissed off by this castration.

for those of you who don't get it:
it is designed for 3 age groups of players:
5, 10 and 15 years old
when you finish 5 years parents buy you essential packet
when you finish 10 years parents buy you premium packet
when you finish 15 years parents buy you ultimate packet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLz3caftM7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXwrMXD0iqw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoCCUhduW64

DosFreak wrote on 2026-09-03, 22:48:

We’re introducing this model because the cost of providing cloud gaming grows as more people use it and play for longer

🤣

In other words, they are suddenly coming to the realisation that running data centres, with the expected reliability and availability, is a massive and massively-expensive undertaking. Furthermore, it is becoming clear that selling said services to everyone and his dog for any and all trivial stupidities, and at prices that people will be willing to pay, simply isn't economically viable. Who would have expected that?

Just wait until the reality check comes for all of this "A.I." nonsense, and the bean counters figure out how much they will have to charge per "token" to not only start putting a dent in the massive debt they are now taking on, but pay operating costs on an ongoing basis and start delivering some satisfactory dividends for investors. That doesn't even consider the fact that their current-generation hardware won't last or remain "state-of-the-art" indefinitely. Is there anyone here who thinks this can actually work, and that the house of cards won't start falling apart the second the numbers become clear? If so, please explain how you see that happening, because it doesn't look terribly likely to me.

On the other hand, if it does end up working out for them, do you ever see sanity returning to hardware production and prices? How much new capacity would have to be built for that to happen, and what do you foresee as the consequences?

640K!enough wrote on Yesterday, 07:08:

In other words, they are suddenly coming to the realisation that running data centres, with the expected reliability and availab […]
Show full quote

DosFreak wrote on 2026-09-03, 22:48:

We’re introducing this model because the cost of providing cloud gaming grows as more people use it and play for longer

🤣

In other words, they are suddenly coming to the realisation that running data centres, with the expected reliability and availability, is a massive and massively-expensive undertaking. Furthermore, it is becoming clear that selling said services to everyone and his dog for any and all trivial stupidities, and at prices that people will be willing to pay, simply isn't economically viable. Who would have expected that?

Just wait until the reality check comes for all of this "A.I." nonsense, and the bean counters figure out how much they will have to charge per "token" to not only start putting a dent in the massive debt they are now taking on, but pay operating costs on an ongoing basis and start delivering some satisfactory dividends for investors. That doesn't even consider the fact that their current-generation hardware won't last or remain "state-of-the-art" indefinitely. Is there anyone here who thinks this can actually work, and that the house of cards won't start falling apart the second the numbers become clear? If so, please explain how you see that happening, because it doesn't look terribly likely to me.

On the other hand, if it does end up working out for them, do you ever see sanity returning to hardware production and prices? How much new capacity would have to be built for that to happen, and what do you foresee as the consequences?

I dont see any sanity returning, with how many DCs are being built I cant see there being much if any free capacity left for the average home DIY consumer, most if not all of the capacity will be focused on running the DCs and it wont just be manufacturing capacity either...power and water capacity will be hard pressed to feed all the DCs and everyone else too. Then you have the long term issues such as we sold farm land used for food production to DCs, so now we have even less land for food.

People will say ohhh itll be ok we will just build more fabrication, power and water production ....FROM WHAT? WITH WHAT? I guess we will just pull a dozen Nuke reactors out of our collective asses. and magically build new farms on land that isn't arable and water starved.

All these DCs being built will have fabrication in a deficit for a long while and their maintenance and upkeep will keep in a deficit, the long term effects are also unknow right now but I don't foresee them being good for you or me.

rmay635703 wrote on 2026-09-02, 21:38:

For now, their goal is to effectively make high end computing out of reach outside business
To force people into low powered devices that require renting gpu power.

I’m guessing it won’t turn out well

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome

i have been thinking even before this that games would go the way of streaming, it fits the infrastructure and pricing now.

Cars
Computers/Consoles
Entertainment/music/movies
Housing
.. more and more

gerry wrote on Yesterday, 09:16:

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome […]
Show full quote

rmay635703 wrote on 2026-09-02, 21:38:

For now, their goal is to effectively make high end computing out of reach outside business
To force people into low powered devices that require renting gpu power.

I’m guessing it won’t turn out well

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome

i have been thinking even before this that games would go the way of streaming, it fits the infrastructure and pricing now.

Cars
Computers/Consoles
Entertainment/music/movies
Housing
.. more and more

And I will do what I can within my power and control to avoid any and all of it.

gerry wrote on Yesterday, 09:16:

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome […]
Show full quote

rmay635703 wrote on 2026-09-02, 21:38:

For now, their goal is to effectively make high end computing out of reach outside business
To force people into low powered devices that require renting gpu power.

I’m guessing it won’t turn out well

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome

i have been thinking even before this that games would go the way of streaming, it fits the infrastructure and pricing now.

Cars
Computers/Consoles
Entertainment/music/movies
Housing
.. more and more

The problem with "high end" gaming has a lot to do with the fact that programmers don't care to or don't know how to make efficient, high performance code.

For the opposite, take a look at Warframe, a free to play game (though I have spent some money on it), that actually has great graphics and yet, somehow doesn't require insane specifications to perform very well, even with maxed out graphics settings.

cyclone3d wrote on Yesterday, 15:29:

gerry wrote on Yesterday, 09:16:

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome […]
Show full quote

rmay635703 wrote on 2026-09-02, 21:38:

For now, their goal is to effectively make high end computing out of reach outside business
To force people into low powered devices that require renting gpu power.

I’m guessing it won’t turn out well

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome

i have been thinking even before this that games would go the way of streaming, it fits the infrastructure and pricing now.

Cars
Computers/Consoles
Entertainment/music/movies
Housing
.. more and more

The problem with "high end" gaming has a lot to do with the fact that programmers don't care to or don't know how to make efficient, high performance code.

For the opposite, take a look at Warframe, a free to play game (though I have spent some money on it), that actually has great graphics and yet, somehow doesn't require insane specifications to perform very well, even with maxed out graphics settings.

Could be because these days most game companies have a few programmers and actual game devs and the rest of the staff are Diversity consultants?

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 15:32:

cyclone3d wrote on Yesterday, 15:29:

gerry wrote on Yesterday, 09:16:

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome […]
Show full quote

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome

i have been thinking even before this that games would go the way of streaming, it fits the infrastructure and pricing now.

Cars
Computers/Consoles
Entertainment/music/movies
Housing
.. more and more

The problem with "high end" gaming has a lot to do with the fact that programmers don't care to or don't know how to make efficient, high performance code.

For the opposite, take a look at Warframe, a free to play game (though I have spent some money on it), that actually has great graphics and yet, somehow doesn't require insane specifications to perform very well, even with maxed out graphics settings.

Could be because these days most game companies have a few programmers and actual game devs and the rest of the staff are Diversity consultants?

im hoarding all my ram hoping it will appreciate in value

Ram is the new Bitcoin

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 15:32:

cyclone3d wrote on Yesterday, 15:29:

gerry wrote on Yesterday, 09:16:

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome […]
Show full quote

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome

i have been thinking even before this that games would go the way of streaming, it fits the infrastructure and pricing now.

Cars
Computers/Consoles
Entertainment/music/movies
Housing
.. more and more

The problem with "high end" gaming has a lot to do with the fact that programmers don't care to or don't know how to make efficient, high performance code.

For the opposite, take a look at Warframe, a free to play game (though I have spent some money on it), that actually has great graphics and yet, somehow doesn't require insane specifications to perform very well, even with maxed out graphics settings.

Could be because these days most game companies have a few programmers and actual game devs and the rest of the staff are Diversity consultants?

Its more that they use off the shelf solutions and do zero tailoring of it for the project they are using it for .. its why every single UE5 game looks the same and performs like its buried in molasses. UE5 is a memory hog if you use it as it comes from Epic, if you tailor it like they did for Arc Raiders its pretty damn efficient and light weight on both Ram and Vram.

But ..well current Devs don't seem to want to use the training that Epic has for UE5, if they took a couple of months at the start to learn the engine and kit 90% of issues with modern games could be solved.

Edit - Not looking to hurt anyone's feelings with words on the internet. Also not a part of whatever thread occurred recently ...that caused people to get hurt feelings.

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 15:32:

cyclone3d wrote on Yesterday, 15:29:

gerry wrote on Yesterday, 09:16:

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome […]
Show full quote

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome

i have been thinking even before this that games would go the way of streaming, it fits the infrastructure and pricing now.

Cars
Computers/Consoles
Entertainment/music/movies
Housing
.. more and more

The problem with "high end" gaming has a lot to do with the fact that programmers don't care to or don't know how to make efficient, high performance code.

For the opposite, take a look at Warframe, a free to play game (though I have spent some money on it), that actually has great graphics and yet, somehow doesn't require insane specifications to perform very well, even with maxed out graphics settings.

Could be because these days most game companies have a few programmers and actual game devs and the rest of the staff are Diversity consultants?

Most companies have more diversity consultants that developers? Good grief. This thread should get renamed to “Hot takes that dont stand up to any sort of scrutiny”

douglar wrote on Yesterday, 18:44:

Most companies have more diversity consultants that developers? Good grief. This thread should get renamed to “Hot takes that dont stand up to any sort of scrutiny”

To be fair, I didn't think the hot takes were the main problem with this thread, at least most of them IMHO are valid points such as:
- RAM pricing is getting absurdly high because of AI (at least that's the reason now)
- AI is definitely not sustainable, both environmentally and economically
- Software nowadays is bloated and the industry seems to encourage it.
- Not just the software, but the software companies themselves are bloated with lots and lots of positions which don't even touch the actual product they're making
-People are losing ownership due to everything becoming a service (even when it doesn't make sense to be)

But in regards to the conclusions people are making, then I completely agree with you... lots of fallacies:
- For the complex issue of the IT industry having bloated software the explanation is: "Devs today are lazy!"
- For the problem of companies having too many bullshit positions the explanation is: "It's because of those diversity consultants!"...not just a fallacy but this one has a hint of prejudice, too.
- Everything is becoming a service and hardware is being hogged by giant tech companies because of IA, the explanation is: "It's because people are dumb and buy their stuff!"

Law212 wrote on Yesterday, 15:32:

cyclone3d wrote on Yesterday, 15:29:

gerry wrote on Yesterday, 09:16:

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome […]
Show full quote

i'm not sure if its a cohesive goal or just an opportunistic outcome

i have been thinking even before this that games would go the way of streaming, it fits the infrastructure and pricing now.

Cars
Computers/Consoles
Entertainment/music/movies
Housing
.. more and more

The problem with "high end" gaming has a lot to do with the fact that programmers don't care to or don't know how to make efficient, high performance code.

For the opposite, take a look at Warframe, a free to play game (though I have spent some money on it), that actually has great graphics and yet, somehow doesn't require insane specifications to perform very well, even with maxed out graphics settings.

Could be because these days most game companies have a few programmers and actual game devs and the rest of the staff are Diversity consultants?

Ffs, not again. Vogons doesn’t need this. There was recently a thread that mentioned how some long time posters don’t visit vogons anymore. I suspect one reason is that posts like this regularly appear in milliways now.