VOGONS


First post, by Odiseo

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Hello all. I was a regular visitor of this forum several months ago. Basically, I was looking for some parts with which I could upgrade my old computer (a Compaq Deskpro 4000). Eventually, I managed to find what I needed (evergreen spectra 400 CPU upgrade, Voodoo 12MB, hardware DVD decoder, extra RAM, USB controller, a riser board with more PCI slots). I inserted everything and installed Windows XP. Installation succeeded, but the thing was unbearably slow.
Therefore, I bought a cheap Windows 2000 disk. During installation, however, the PC crashed. I tried to install the OS again, but it kept crashing, always on the same moment during installation. Therefore, I got the hard drive (6GB) out of the PC, inserted it into my better PC (Pentium 4), formatted it once more and installed Windows 2000 (while the disk was still in my Pentium 4). The installation succeeded; I could use the Pentium 4 in Windows 2000. Then, I got the disk back out of the Pentium 4 and reinserted it into the Deskpro. After POST, an error appeared informing me that “NTLDR was missing”. I found a solution to that problem; apparently, I had to copy two files to the root of the disk: ‘NTLDR’ and ‘NTDETECT.COM’. I did that, once more with the use of my Pentium 4.
I reinserted the hard drive into the Deskpro. It must have been then that I incorrectly connected one or more power or IDE cables, resulting in the state the PC has been in ever since: it won’t boot, the screen stays black. Whatever combination of connecting the IDE and power cables I tried, nothing seemed to help.

All that was months ago. Today, I got the thing back out to try and find a solution once more. I formatted the hard drive with the use of my Pentium 4 and installed Windows 2000 (succeeded). This time around, the two files I mentioned earlier were copied to the root of the hard disk during installation of WIN2K. I got the disk back out of my Pentium 4, reinserted it into the Deskpro and turned it on. The display remained black. I once more tried to connect the different cables in all kinds of combinations, all to no avail.

The parts concerned are the following (for the moment I don’t connect the riser board with the PCI cards):

--one hard disk, has 40 pins (Does that make it PATA?)
--one floppy drive
--one CD drive
--one DVD drive
--an evergreen spectra 400 CPU upgrade
--cables:
one 40-ribbon cable: has 40 pins
one 80-ribbon cable: has 39 pins and one blue connector.

If I’m not mistaken, it is necessary to connect the 80-ribbon to the primary disk drive (and its slave), with the blue connector on the motherboard, the middle connector on the master and the connector on the far end on the slave. I read this in a technical guide. However, the computer I’m trying to set up is very old (1995), so I don’t know whether I should take this advice for granted. I used the 40-ribbon to connect the CD and DVD drives.

I have been considering my floppy drive might be causing all of this. I got the impression it wasn’t detected, so I figured it died. I tried to connect the floppy to my Pentium 4, which did detect the drive. Still, any floppies I inserted into the drive weren’t detected (strange). I tried another old floppy drive I had lying around: same story (drive detected, floppies not detected).

This PC and all the cheap upgrade parts I bought worked when I installed Windows XP on it (though it was awfully slow), so Windows 2000 must surely work on it as well. I figure the problem is the IDE and power cables. Basically, what I need to know is how to connect the different cables in a Compaq Deskpro 4000. What is the correct combination?

Thanks for the help.

Reply 2 of 24, by fillosaurus

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@ Odiseo
Buddy, sorry for using harsh language, but you must be a masochist if you try to use Win XP on that computer.
Now for some constructive advice:
1. Install Windows 98SE if you need USB support. If not, stick with Win95 OSR2
2. Get more RAM SIMM's; as far as I see, the motherboard can use up to 256 Mb (8x32 Mb FPM/EDO SIMM's); with 256 Mb and a decent HDD even XP should work acceptably; since you say XP is very slow, I suspect the system has 128 or less Mb RAM installed.
3. ATA HDD have jumpers for master/slave; try to set HDD and DVD as master, CD-ROM as slave. Jumper settings are usually displayed on the drive case (You don't need the CD drive anymore unless it is a writer).
4. For FDD you must be certain you inserted the data cable the correct way. If you inserted it wrong, the FDD led will stay on. If cable is ok check the BIOS settings for something like "Win95 floppy detect"

Y2K box: AMD Athlon K75 (second generation slot A)@700, ASUS K7M motherboard, 256 MB SDRAM, ATI Radeon 7500+2xVoodoo2 in SLI, SB Live! 5.1, VIA USB 2.0 PCI card, 40 GB Seagate HDD.
WIP: external midi module based on NEC wavetable (Yamaha clone)

Reply 3 of 24, by DosFreak

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The best thing to do when troubleshooting is just to disconnect everything from the computer that is not needed.

So EVERYTHING extra not needed to boot the computer and install an OS. Disconnect it.

If the computer is not POSTing and there are no beeps then you need to remove EVERYTHING (even the processor) and start from scratch. Also verify that your motherboard isn't shorting out.

If during Windows installation the computer "crashes" (what do you mean by that?) It's usually a heating/processor issue or bad memory.

Also verify that the CD is good by copying all of the contents of the CD to a directory on your hard drive.

I'd run memtestx86 on your memory.

XP can be run on a 400mhz computer fine but you need at the extreme least 256mb of ram for anything usable. 384 if you can. 512 would be optimal.

If your motherboard can't support that much memory then you are better off with 98SE or Windows 2000.

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Reply 4 of 24, by Odiseo

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fillosaurus wrote:

ATA HDD have jumpers for master/slave; try to set HDD

I had the HD set as master; yesterday I tried Cable select, but that hasn't been any help.

fillosaurus wrote:

For FDD you must be certain you inserted the data cable the correct way

I have because it's one of those floppy cables where one of the pin holes on either side is missing.

DosFreak wrote:

So EVERYTHING extra not needed to boot the computer and install an OS. Disconnect it.

If the computer is not POSTing and there are no beeps then you need to remove EVERYTHING (even the processor) and start from scratch.

I disconnected everything (except for HDD, floppy drive and CD) and replaced the spectra CPU upgrade with the original CPU (133mhz).
It's still not booting up (see end of this post)

DosFreak wrote:

Also verify that your motherboard isn't shorting out.

How to check that?

DosFreak wrote:

If during Windows installation the computer "crashes" (what do you mean by that?) It's usually a heating/processor issue or bad memory.

That was during installation of Windows 2000. The error consisted in a memory dump error, and the message I had to reboot.

DosFreak wrote:

Also verify that the CD is good by copying all of the contents of the CD to a directory on your hard drive.

The CD should be OK. After the installation error on the deskpro, I tried to install windows 2000 (from the same CD) on the hard drive from the deskpro but using my pentium 4. result: I could use the pentium 4 in windows 2000. Then I tried to reinsert that same 6GB disk in the deskpro. It was then that it displayed the NTLDR error.

While trying to correct that error, I must have incorrectly inserted the IDE/power cables.

As I said, I just replaced the CPU upgrade with the original 133mhz. However, the deskpro is still not booting up. Before you say the thing is completely dead: it used to work in Windows XP (albeit very slow). And after the installation of Windows 2000 months ago, it displayed the NTLDR error on booting up. Then, however, I must have incorrectly connected the IDE/power cables, because the display has been black ever since.

How must I connect those?

Reply 5 of 24, by RoyBatty

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Do you get a BIOS post screen? If not, sounds like Power Supply issues to me.

If you do get a POST from the bios, and it fails to load windows... it would be because the HAL is wrong. That would occur from installing the OS from another computer with a different CPU type. You mentioned it's a P4, and your trying to run it on a PII/PIII ? I don't know what that CPU upgrade is myself, OR windows installed the wrong chipset drivers. I wouldn't run windows2000 on it either, because it's about as heavy as XP is.

Go with Win98SE or WIN95 OSR2.5 like already mentioned.

Reply 6 of 24, by fillosaurus

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@ Odiseo
If the computer is POSTing I suggest you burn on a CD-RW a copy of Parted Magic http://partedmagic.com/download.html.
First of all you should run Memtest86+.
If everything is ok, then boot into Parted Magic desktop and use the included partitioning program to see if the HDD is working.

Oh, I almost forgot... Double check the HDD jumper. Some hdd's have a setting for single master and a different one for master in master/slave configuration.

Y2K box: AMD Athlon K75 (second generation slot A)@700, ASUS K7M motherboard, 256 MB SDRAM, ATI Radeon 7500+2xVoodoo2 in SLI, SB Live! 5.1, VIA USB 2.0 PCI card, 40 GB Seagate HDD.
WIP: external midi module based on NEC wavetable (Yamaha clone)

Reply 7 of 24, by Odiseo

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Sorry I haven't been active the last few days; I've been busy on my bachelor thesis.

RoyBatty wrote:

Do you get a BIOS post screen? If not, sounds like Power Supply issues to me.

No, I'm not getting one. In certain setups of the IDE and power cables, the PC will make some noises when I turn it on, but it's not making any beeps (while it used to do so) nor showing any messages on-screen.

The cpu upgrade is an evergreen spectra 400; it has an AMD K6-2 processor. This cpu upgrade used to work when Windows XP was still installed.

fillosaurus wrote:

First of all you should run Memtest86+.

Can that program be run if the PC is not posting?

fillosaurus wrote:

Double check the HDD jumper. Some hdd's have a setting for single master and a different one for master in master/slave configuration.

The HDD jumper is currently on Cable Select. It used to be on Master.

DosFreak wrote:

Also verify that your motherboard isn't shorting out.

How can you check that?

As I already said, I think that, basically, the problem is that I incorrectly connected the IDE and power cables (all this trouble of not posting, not getting a BIOS screen started after I had disconnected some of those cables). It'd be great if someone could explain me how to correctly connect those on a system as old as this one!!

Last edited by Odiseo on 2010-02-08, 23:36. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 8 of 24, by fillosaurus

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Wait... You mean power connectors or THE mobo? 😲 😳
I thought you mean power connectors of hdd/cd/dvd.
Check again the area and connect all the power cables.
AFAIR those things have ATX PS with non-standard connectors.
Opened about a dozen of them Compaqs some (4-5) years ago.

Y2K box: AMD Athlon K75 (second generation slot A)@700, ASUS K7M motherboard, 256 MB SDRAM, ATI Radeon 7500+2xVoodoo2 in SLI, SB Live! 5.1, VIA USB 2.0 PCI card, 40 GB Seagate HDD.
WIP: external midi module based on NEC wavetable (Yamaha clone)

Reply 9 of 24, by Odiseo

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fillosaurus wrote:

I thought you mean power connectors of hdd/cd/dvd.

Actually, I did mean those. Those and the IDE cables.

fillosaurus wrote:

Check again the area and connect all the power cables.

I tried connecting them about 20 times. I'm afraid that another try won't do because I only know some basic stuff. I tried to find some info on the internet, but didn't find much.

Reply 10 of 24, by fillosaurus

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Some of these non standard desktop systems DO NOT work without the riser board. And some have a secondary power connector which plugs directly into the R/B.
I "played" with such systems when the school I was working for at that time received a donation.
It could be helpful if you manage to snap some pictures of the mobo and post them, maybe it will "jumpstart" my fuzzy memory.

Y2K box: AMD Athlon K75 (second generation slot A)@700, ASUS K7M motherboard, 256 MB SDRAM, ATI Radeon 7500+2xVoodoo2 in SLI, SB Live! 5.1, VIA USB 2.0 PCI card, 40 GB Seagate HDD.
WIP: external midi module based on NEC wavetable (Yamaha clone)

Reply 11 of 24, by chootastic

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If you have spares, it's best to try replacing each component, one at a time. If I were you, I'd start with memory...

As far as shorts are concerned, just check nothing could be bridging between the motherboard and the case (a dropped screw for instance). It's a purely visual check.

Reply 12 of 24, by Odiseo

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fillosaurus wrote:

Some of these non standard desktop systems DO NOT work without the riser board.

Thank you!! I put the riser board back in, connected the IDE cables the way I thought was correct, powered on, and the PC went on to load windows 2000. Then it suddenly rebooted. I powered it down, got the 133mhz cpu back out, inserted the spectra 400mhz cpu upgrade, and tried to power it on again. Once more, it crashed on loading windows and immediately rebooted.

This time, I let it boot with my Windows 2000 installation CD in the drive. It asked me to press any key if I wanted to boot from the CD. I did so, and windows 2000 went on to configure itself (the w2k installation still needs to configure certain things). More than halfway through that process, it crashed. The error I got ran along these lines:

*** STOP: 0x0000001E (0xC0000006. 0x804F5004, 0x00000000, 0x485870B8)
KMODE_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED

*** Address 804F5004 base at 80400000, DateStamp 3ee650b3 - ntoskrnl.exe

I googled for ntoskrnl.exe, and found some forum posts and articles explaining how to solve this.

One article told that I should boot the PC using boot disks (floppies), start the recovery console, insert the w2k installation CD and type the following line in MS-DOS:

EXPAND C:\Windows\System32\ntkrnlmp.ex_ C:\Windows\System32\ntoskrnl.exe

I tried to do that, but got the error "access denied". Then again, just a few moments ago I read on another page that the whole code is in fact:

COPY D:\i386\ntkrnlmp.ex_ C:\Windows\System32
CD C:\Windows\System32
REN ntoskrnl.exe ntoskrnl.exe_old
EXPAND C:\Windows\System32\ntkrnlmp.ex_ C:\Windows\System32\ntoskrnl.exe

I haven't got the time to try every solution i stumble upon on the internet. Does the longer code look like it would work? Or should I try something else?

Last edited by Odiseo on 2010-02-13, 09:08. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 13 of 24, by DosFreak

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There are no hacks needed to get Windows 2000 to install.

The good thing about installing it though is it's a good diagnostic. It can hit your memory/hard drive/processor pretty hard.

You've already had the issue with two different processors so more than likely it's a memory issue.

Download memtest86+ and test your memory. Run it for about 15 minutes to make sure it doesn't freeze and then let it continue running overnight.

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Reply 14 of 24, by fillosaurus

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@ Odiseo
😉 You welcome!
I second DosFreak. memtest86+ is a good diagnostic tool for RAM. Look at my earlier post regarding Parted Magic bootable CD.

Y2K box: AMD Athlon K75 (second generation slot A)@700, ASUS K7M motherboard, 256 MB SDRAM, ATI Radeon 7500+2xVoodoo2 in SLI, SB Live! 5.1, VIA USB 2.0 PCI card, 40 GB Seagate HDD.
WIP: external midi module based on NEC wavetable (Yamaha clone)

Reply 15 of 24, by Odiseo

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Hello all. I finally got around to booting the PC in Memtest86+. It ran for about half an hour to test 128MB of RAM. The result of the tests was 100% succeeded.

Then I also tried to boot in Parted Magic. I got to the screen where you get a list of boot options. I tried default settings and got a black screen with some lines of text on. The PC didn't pass this screen. I let it wait for more than thirty seconds, but after some time, the CAPS and SCROLL LOCK lights on my keyboard started to continuously flash on and off. I tried some other booting options (other graphical server, minimal RAM), but none of those got me passed that black screen.

The HDD worked in my pentium4 with WIN2K installed on it, so it should be OK.

Any thoughts?

PS1: the RAM I put in (months ago) is seven sticks of 32MB each.
Type: SIMM,72 PIN
Other: I think it is EDO

That makes 224MB in total, BUT ever since I put in those modules, the PC has only detected 128MB.

PS2: I'll format the drive one of the following days, and reinstall WIN2K using the deskpro. I performed this installation of WIN2K using my pentium 4. I figure that might be what causes WIN2K to crash. On the other hand, months ago, after I had installed WIN2K using the deskpro itself, it also crashed on the configuration process.

Reply 16 of 24, by DosFreak

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For some reason you are obsessed with installing Windows 2000 on an unstable system. FIX THE INSTABILITY AND THEN WORRY ABOUT INSTALLING THE OS.

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Reply 18 of 24, by fillosaurus

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Solution is quite simple. On Pentium systems SIMM's must be put in pairs. I am aware of just several motherboards which accept odd number of SIMM's, and obviously your Compaq does not. That's why it sees only 128 Mb, that's why it gives you those errors.
Use only paired SIMM; Even better if they are identical.
This should solve your problems. And forget about Win2000. Install Win98SE.

Y2K box: AMD Athlon K75 (second generation slot A)@700, ASUS K7M motherboard, 256 MB SDRAM, ATI Radeon 7500+2xVoodoo2 in SLI, SB Live! 5.1, VIA USB 2.0 PCI card, 40 GB Seagate HDD.
WIP: external midi module based on NEC wavetable (Yamaha clone)

Reply 19 of 24, by vlask

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Well i vote for Win98SE too 😀
Anyway back in time of Win2000 i seen blue screen when installing Win2k on MSI motherboard with AMD Duron. We solved it by disabling integrated sound card and reenabled it after instalation. So you should remove all cards except graphic one of course, disable all devices in bios like a sound if integrated, com/lan and lpt ports and try it again. Still you could have non compactible bios with Win2K, check internet for latest bios available.

Not only mine graphics cards collection at http://www.vgamuseum.info