VOGONS


First post, by Laucian

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Greetings.

After stalking the forums a bit, seeking support for a myriad of things, I finally had the decency of making a forum account, heh heh heh.

Well, I have just recently bought a Roland Sound Canvas SC-55. It is not currently here, it is still being shipped around the country.

However, I must admit that I don't rightfully... Have a single clue on how I should configure it.

I, unfortunately, do not have any ISA slots to put my Sound Blaster 16 on it (it has MPU401 I/O's, I think.). But I have heard that a Midi to USB cable should work just fine. Is that correct?

If any drivers drivers , well. I run Windows 7 x64, Windows XP, Windows 98SE and DOS 6.22. There has to be drivers for at least one of those systems, yes? I have looked on the internet quite a bit and didn't find anything.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Laucian on 2011-06-10, 22:48. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 1 of 42, by elfuego

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I am not sure about the midi2usb cable, but you can connect the SC55 to a gameport of more less any sound blaster out there and use the "external midi" out in windows xp and 9x (should also be easy for 7/Vista). After that, connect the headphones out of SC55 to line in (or mic in case of line in absence) and thats it 😀

Reply 2 of 42, by Mau1wurf1977

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If you use DOSBox, a USB to Midi adapter will do the trick. They usually work with 32bit and 64bit software. Mine was a cheap one from eBay and the drivers installed itself.

For Dos, as elfuego mentioned, most soundcards with a gameport will do the trick. Just need a gameport to Midi cable.

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Reply 3 of 42, by batracio

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I, unfortunately, do not have any ISA slots to put my Sound Blaster 16 on it (it has MPU401 I/O's, I think.). But I have heard that a Midi to USB cable should work just fine. Is that correct?

You don't need a Sound Blaster 16 to connect the Sound Canvas. Actually the SB16 is not recommended at all for that purpose due to the hanging notes bug. You'd better use any PCI sound card with gameport/MPU-401 interface and a gameport to MIDI cable. USB to MIDI interface is fine too, and it doesn't need a sound card, nor an additional cable. It's the best setup if you can find a good Roland interface. Otherwise, gameport to MIDI interface may give better results than the crappy unnamed USB interfaces.

If any drivers drivers , well. I run Windows 7 x64, Windows XP, Windows 98SE and DOS 6.22. There has to be drivers for at least one of those systems, yes? I have looked on the internet quite a bit and didn't find anything.

The Sound Canvas is a external device that responds to MIDI messages sent through a MIDI interface. The operating system doesn't even know what a Sound Canvas is, only applications do. That said, you won't need any Sound Canvas driver because it just doesn't exist. What you really need is a driver for the interface you will be using to connect the Sound Canvas. Your mileage may vary depending on both the interface and the operating system you choose. If you use a sound card with a gameport, the drivers should provide Roland MPU-401 emulation under DOS and Windows 9x. My very personal recommendations for sound cards with gameport are:

- MS-DOS 6.x: Sound Blaster AWE64, Yamaha YMF-719.
- Windows 9x: Aureal Vortex 2, Yamaha YMF-724/744/754.
- Windows XP: Sound Blaster Live!, Turtle Beach Santa Cruz.
- Windows 7: None. Gameport support was dropped from x64.

If you use a USB to MIDI interface, Windows XP and 7 will automatically detect it and install the proper driver. Windows 98SE does not have a standard driver for USB to MIDI interfaces as far as I know, so the device manufacturer must provide a Windows 9x driver with it. Under DOS 6.x, it won't work at all, so you will need DosBox to access your Sound Canvas from DOS applications. DosBox will emulate Roland MPU-401 on any MIDI interface you may have, and you won't have to care anymore if the driver provides that emulation or not. It is absolutely recommended to use DosBox for old DOS games, and a complete must-have for USB to MIDI interfaces and NT-based versions of Windows.

Reply 4 of 42, by DonutKing

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Yep, I use a Roland SC-55 with a USB-Midi adapter on my Win 7 x64 machine and it works flawlessly. It installs all the drivers you need automatically when you plug in the USB adapter. Check the DOSBox FAQ for further info.

If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble.

Reply 5 of 42, by Laucian

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Ah, I see. Thanks. I got it sorted out, now. Not as hard as it seemed. I'll use a USB-Midi cable for Windows 7 x64/XP and attempt to find any sound card to use with my future vintage machine.

Actually the SB16 is not recommended at all for that purpose due to the hanging notes bug.

Damn, aren't pieces hard to come by, nowadays. Well, I've got a Sound Blaster 16 and I've 'heard' (Well, not actually heard. More like seen actual computers with it) of people using it with SC-55 with apparently no issues. Do I really need to change the card?

Reply 6 of 42, by Mau1wurf1977

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Just use an AWE64. Easy to find and quite cheap...

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Reply 8 of 42, by DonutKing

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here's something I typed up on another forum on the subject:

Yes, I had an XR385 wavetable card attached to my SB16, and also have an MT32/SC55 which I can attach to the card externally using the joystick/midi port.
The XR385 and external device will both play at the same time. Unfortunately I can't find a way to mute the XR385 when using the external device, so if you want to use the SB16 for digital sound and the external device for synth, you also get the XR385 playing over the top.

You are really opening a can of worms here 🤣
With the SB16's many models had the 'hanging note' bug, basically when using a MIDI device connected to the SB16, and using the same SB16 for digital sound, you sometimes get a stuck/hanging note on the synth. Certain models seem to be affected more than others, My CT2800 had it quite badly. The original SB16 (CT1740 I think) didn't have this issue but has a poor SNR with audible cracks/hiss so its a poor choice for digital sound anyway. I think the AWE64 is not affected either but it doesn't have a real OPL chip on it AFAIK so you don't get true adlib audio. Its drivers can be a pain to use under DOS too. Any model in between is a bit of a gamble.

I ended up getting sick of this so I swapped to a clone card (Acer Magic S20) which was SB Pro compatible with MIDI internal and external connectors and doesn't have the issue.

<snip>
As for Awe64, never tried it although supposedly its immune to the bug. How does FM synth sound on the AWE64? comparable to a Yamaha OPL chip?

If you are squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble.

Reply 9 of 42, by Mau1wurf1977

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DonutKing wrote:

As for AWE64, never tried it although supposedly its immune to the bug. How does FM synth sound on the AWE64? comparable to a Yamaha OPL chip?

Only use the AWE64 if you have MIDI for music. It doesn't have an OPL3 chip, but a clone chip from Creative which sounds somewhat different.

Apart from that it's a very quiet card, you can disable resources as you please (gameport, midi port, FM part, speech part), supports SPDIF, no crackles or pops, short and easy to source.

Reply 10 of 42, by Robin4

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DonutKing wrote:

here's something I typed up on another forum on the subject:

Yes, I had an XR385 wavetable card attached to my SB16, and also have an MT32/SC55 which I can attach to the card externally using the joystick/midi port.
The XR385 and external device will both play at the same time. Unfortunately I can't find a way to mute the XR385 when using the external device, so if you want to use the SB16 for digital sound and the external device for synth, you also get the XR385 playing over the top.

Is this with every sound card, that will using both connections MIDI / Wavetable poort?

Reply 11 of 42, by Mau1wurf1977

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I would think so. Because they ususally only have a single MIDI interface.

Though you might be able to mute it through the mixer application...

Reply 12 of 42, by megatron-uk

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If you've got more than just a single soundcard (ie a soundcard and waveblaster, or midicard and external devices) then you're better with an external mixer, IMO, as you don't have to bother about using muting/unmuting devices using software settings - just 'twiddle the knobs' instead!

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Reply 14 of 42, by Laucian

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Well. After some time away due my studies, I decided to finally set up my Roland SC-55.

It works fine under XP, although I can only get the audio if I plug my speakers into the synth (using a MIDI-USB cable here). Is that the way things normally work? Can't I just forward it to my normal output?

And... It doesn't works with Windows 7 x64. At all. I've tried various software and manually changing the registry, but nothing works. Any idea what it could be?

Reply 15 of 42, by batracio

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Laucian wrote:

Well. After some time away due my studies, I decided to finally set up my Roland SC-55.

It works fine under XP, although I can only get the audio if I plug my speakers into the synth (using a MIDI-USB cable here). Is that the way things normally work? Can't I just forward it to my normal output?

It's obvious that you must connect something to the synth output in order to hear the synth output. You maybe expected that connecting Sound Canvas MIDI OUT to USB MIDI IN, sound output would be sent back to PC? Notice that, even if it worked, you would be sending again the same MIDI commands that the Sound Canvas receives, not the actual sound, therefore it would be pointless. If you want to forward the Sound Canvas output to your standard output, you need a mixer. The easiest way is to use your sound card's internal mixer. Get a RCA to mini jack cable and connect it to PC's Line In, Then use Windows mixer or driver's mixer to control volume.

Laucian wrote:

And... It doesn't works with Windows 7 x64. At all. I've tried various software and manually changing the registry, but nothing works. Any idea what it could be?

What does not work? As I wrote in a previous message, you just need a proper driver for the MIDI interface you use to connect the Sound Canvas. Is the USB interface detected and installed? Does it appear in Control panel, under MIDI devices list? I hope you got a good USB interface, for example the new Roland UM-ONE. This interface has its own Windows 7 x64 driver. I already warned you about those crappy unnamed interfaces.

Last edited by batracio on 2011-06-10, 23:59. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 16 of 42, by Laucian

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batracio wrote:

If you want to forward the Sound Canvas output to your standard output, you need a mixer. The easiest way is to use your sound card's internal mixer. Get a RCA to mini jack cable and connect it to PC's Line In, Then use Windows mixer or driver's mixer to control volume.

Ah. Thanks. I get it now.

batracio wrote:

What does not work? As I wrote in a previous message, you just need a proper driver for the MIDI interface you use to connect the Sound Canvas. Is the USB interface recognized and installed? Does it appear in Control panel, under MIDI devices list?

Oh. Sorry. I guess I should've been more specific. It's detected, the drivers are automatically installed, I can choose the device with the available tools/registry... But there is no sign of input nor output activity (indicated by the adapter's LEDs) and sound doesn't comes out. At all.

batracio wrote:

I hope you got a good USB interface, for example the new Roland UM-ONE. This interface has its own Windows 7 x64 driver. I already warned you about those crappy unnamed interfaces.

Well, I did try to get a decent interface. But I only found in the other side of the country and by a very steep price (more than the SC-55 itself) and I didn't had the funds. So yep, I bought a crappy unnamed interface. It works just fine under XP, though.

EDIT: No, it doesn't comes with any drivers at all.

Reply 17 of 42, by Mau1wurf1977

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So it works under XP, but not under W7?

W7 doesn't allow you to select what MIDI device you want to use (if you have several). There are two options:

1. Download and run the Vista MIDI Picker tool.
2. Tell DOSBox which MIDI device it should use. There is a command that lists all the MIDI devices (it gives you an ID number) and then you just tell it which one you want to use.

I tested both options under W7 64x and it works just fine. I use a very cheap USB adapter from eBay.

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Reply 18 of 42, by rug

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Hello.

First, I'd like to thank all of the participants in this threat: it has been quite informative.

Now, my question is, if you use the sound blaster's MIDI port to connect a joystick (an FLCS in my case, which I can't seem to find the manuals online anywhere!!) how would you connect the SC-55?

Cheers,
Rita Graça.

My DOS machine: MS-DOS 6.22, Pentium MMX 200MHz, 64MB RAM, AWE64 Gold, 4GB HD, Philips 19" CRT, 3"1/2 Floppy, CDROM, Parallel ZIP, ThrustMaster FLCS+TQL+Elite.

Reply 19 of 42, by Mau1wurf1977

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There are cables that have joystick AND MIDI ports!

So all you need is search for one of these cables.

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